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NRL rebellion: Rugby league clubs want CEO Dave Smith gone or threaten to leave comp

Hello, I'm The Doctor

First Grade
Messages
9,124
I would rather as a Panthers fan see our juniors go to other clubs then not be in game fullstop.

What? Why would the juniors not be "in game" if the panthers stopped developing them??

Jnr development is one thing we do well

And saying "Jnr development is the one thing we do well" is exactly the point i was trying to make earlier. If Panthers as an NRL club offer nothing other than junior development (something that can be done by people not holding an NRL licence), then why should they be a First Grade team??

This talk about rationalisation and relocation is only coming up because clubs know that without the fallback of "we produce heaps of juniors" they would have very little to say to justify their continued existence.
 

Hello, I'm The Doctor

First Grade
Messages
9,124
No one disagrees that country areas need better representation and more attention from the top.

The disagreement is why you'd need to tear down the entire NSW Cup and the existing clubs attachment to their communities to do so. If the ARL can afford this grand plan they can sure as shit afford to fund a couple of bush teams or negotiate regional partnerships with clubs.

Id argue this would do MORE for the community level RL...

Rather than being "a shittier version of that team i like", these clubs would have the chance to establish identities as suburban teams, reminiscent of NSWRL in the 1970s.

People want the NRL to be this suburban connection, but it is delusional to believe it will continue. These teams, on the other hand, can become that romantisised image of the suburban ground on the Sunday arvo the NRL clubs cannot be.
 

Hello, I'm The Doctor

First Grade
Messages
9,124
Fair enough tradition is not great just because its tradition, but the game is tribal and a fan's team is important to them. But that doesn't seem to be recognised.

I agree, but again, this should only be on a very supperficial, branding level. Junior development should not be a shit-fight between clubs; the ARLC has the capacity to pay for it and they can do it in an effective and efficient way. They can cover all locations instead of just the ones the clubs feel will benefit them in the short term and they can create formal pathways that are best for that kids coming through, and not just best for the clubs looking to exploit some 13 year old.

Its not always about development but support as well.

Again, totally agree. But again, this is achiaved on the superficial branding level....

Id love to see junior clubs adding the logo of their local club (based on these these regions) the kids jerseys. So you could have the club logo on the left, the ARL logo(whichever one is aplicable) on the right and that regions NRL team logo on the sleeve/back of the neck/centred under the collar.

The kids would love playing in an NRL logo'ed jersey, the clubs would get the exposure that would probably turn the kids into fans of that team and the ARLC still structure and runs the pathways from behind the scenes.

I don't trust the NRL or the ARLC to look after junior RL, its had plenty of opportunities to do it and basically has left it out to dry, especially the country RL

You dont like them because they arent looking after juniors, but when they try to look after the juniors you dont want them to, because you dont like them for not looking after juniors....

Have i got that right?
 

CC_Roosters

First Grade
Messages
5,221
Thought of a cunning compromise. So have the southern conference supersede the NSW cup as the NRL wants with 14 teams as below
-Fiji
-Warriors
-2nd NZ
-Hunter rebels
-Illawarra-southern cutters
-Central coast centurions
-Bidgee Bulls
-New England eagles
-Western NSW bulldogs
-North Sydney bears
-Newtown
-South west Magpies
-Penrith
-Parramatta

So we get larger geographical spread but preservation of brands a the same time. Yes the bulldogs and manly would have to send players to Bathurst and the north coast respectively but given they will have bigger first grade squads anyway I don't see the issue.

Have the Harold matts and SG ball run as they do currently with the district clubs and then bush rep sides as below.
HUNTER
CENTRAL COAST
ILLAWARRA-SOUTHERN
NORTH WEST
EAST COAST
RIVERINA
CANBERRA-MONARO
WESTERN

Revive the Jersey flegg cup as a continuation on the pathway from HM and SG ball, but with a longer season to recognise that by then players in the system are progressing towards professionalism (maybe 18 games?). Sides that should be involved are.
HUNTER
ILLAWARRA-SOUTHERN
CENTRAL COAST
BIDGEE- rep side for riverina & canberra
NEW ENGLAND- rep side for East coast & North west NSW
WESTERN- self explanitary group 10 and 11
MANLY
CANTERBURY
SOUTH SYDNEY
CRONULLA
SOUTH WEST
PENRITH
PARRAMATTA

NRL clubs may sign a maximum of 3 players to first grade rookie contracts per season with a restriction of them being 17yo and they can then play at a level in the pathway dictated by the club.

With this districts in the bush and metro region are preserved up to U20 and then the sides in the 2nd division basically suit the circumstance of the pathway but must fulfil the criteria of encompassing the whole state. e.g. we need representation in western nsw and Canterbury an excellent brand with a below average junior district so it makes sense to me to merge there pathway at 2nd division level with the western NSW bulldogs.

The new Zealand domestic rep youth tournament should receive appropriate funding form the NZRL via the commission so that the NZ pathway is entirely domestic up until the 2nd division senior level when they compete in the southern conference. Ideally, eventually the goal should be to have the new Zealand senior rep competition as a sort of third conference in the 2nd division structure.

Finally, solid planning is required to add NRL teams in QLD, WA and NZ over the next decade. At least 2 more in QLD to serve there pathways and 1 each in NZ and perth. By then it will be necessary to have a 2 tier NRL with promotion and relegation (10 team leagues with full H&A fixture!!!!!!!!) or a conference model at NRL level as well.
 

siv

First Grade
Messages
6,765
Richo wants to remove the NRL brands from.NSW

Something that will be met with major backlash

Because it can only be dine by removing todays NSW Cup brands as well

He has had this brain storm for 20 years as it has SL War style mentality all over it
 

adamkungl

Immortal
Messages
42,971
Id argue this would do MORE for the community level RL...

Rather than being "a shittier version of that team i like", these clubs would have the chance to establish identities as suburban teams, reminiscent of NSWRL in the 1970s.

People want the NRL to be this suburban connection, but it is delusional to believe it will continue. These teams, on the other hand, can become that romantisised image of the suburban ground on the Sunday arvo the NRL clubs cannot be.

Lol what absolute nonsense.

These "shittier versions of team i like" have real fans, real club connections, in some cases 100+ year identities, as well as people wanting to watch lower grades and their club's future stars.

These Platinum "clubs" (they won't even be clubs) would be generic, soulless franchises who wouldn't establish any identity because no one would care. People only watch lower grades because a) it's their club's second grade, or b) because they like watching Norths or Newtown go round at the old grounds. Neither of these reasons will exist any more.

11 x Hunter Mariners coming up courtesy of Richo
 

adamkungl

Immortal
Messages
42,971
And saying "Jnr development is the one thing we do well" is exactly the point i was trying to make earlier. If Panthers as an NRL club offer nothing other than junior development (something that can be done by people not holding an NRL licence), then why should they be a First Grade team??

This talk about rationalisation and relocation is only coming up because clubs know that without the fallback of "we produce heaps of juniors" they would have very little to say to justify their continued existence.

You don't think producing a lot of Rugby League players is a pretty good reason to have a top Rugby League team?

Some of the world's greatest sports leagues still represent suburban areas or towns. Why you think it is an inevitability that we need to move away from this is baffling.

Sydney (and Brisbane's) clubs have spent over 100 years developing Rugby League players and growing the game. The ARLC has spent 2 years getting a TV deal.
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
7,960
What's wrong with our junior development atm? nothing so why change it

Are you f##king kidding!

Junior development in NSW and the ACT at the moment is a patch work of different systems all overlapping each other and fighting each other for the same outcome.

Take Canberra and the surrounding regions (the area and juniors system I'm most familiar with) if you're in Canberra, Queanbeyan , Cooma, Crookwell or Goulburn you've got a straight run from under 6's all the way up to first grade and into the NRL through the Raiders if you're good enough.

However go down to Batemans Bay (or anywhere else on the South Coast and into the Riverina) and once you get to under 16's there's no clear way forward, either you get spotted by the Raiders, Dragons or Cutters when one of their scouts comes to check the local scene about once every year or so and they funnel you into their develop system from there, or you have no choice but to move to Canberra, Wollongong or Sydney and play in the competitions there where you are more visible to the NRL clubs.

Go South of Cooma or west of Yass and it's even murkier, if you are in Albury, Wagga, Orange, Dubbo, etc, etc, then there really is no clear way into the NRL, and there's certainly no way to do it without moving to either Canberra, Sydney or Wollongong by the time you're about 14-16 years of age.

A standard form of junior development run by the NRL and all working together would be a massive improvement on what we have now.

Id argue this would do MORE for the community level RL...

Rather than being "a shittier version of that team i like", these clubs would have the chance to establish identities as suburban teams, reminiscent of NSWRL in the 1970s.

People want the NRL to be this suburban connection, but it is delusional to believe it will continue. These teams, on the other hand, can become that romantisised image of the suburban ground on the Sunday arvo the NRL clubs cannot be.

Exactly.

Some people here are so Sydney-centric that they don't realise that not everything revolves around a handful of suburban teams from Syndey.

Do you know what it would do for the image of RL in NSW/ACT if a kid from Cooma could play for the Colts from the age of 5 until either the day he retires from RL or until the point that he is spotted as a potential NRL player and is funneled into a club that is a motley representation of his geographic area.

It'd be massive, it'd make kids from Cowra see the Cowra Magpies as a legitimate stepping stone towards the NRL and a club to be supremely proud to play for, instead of a small town club that they play for until they grow up or move to the big smoke to take their shot at going professional, and the new NSW platinum league (though I think that is a terrible name) teams have the potential to become like what the NSWRL clubs were back in the 50's, 60's and 70's or what the collage football teams are in America but on a state wide scale.

Richo wants to remove the NRL brands from.NSW

Something that will be met with major backlash

Because it can only be dine by removing todays NSW Cup brands as well

He has had this brain storm for 20 years as it has SL War style mentality all over it

Why?

I see why it'd be necessary to remove the NRL brands for his plan to work, but I see no reason why in theory the Jets, Bears, Cutters, Roos, etc, etc could not still exist within this new format.

I can understand why it may not be possible for all the brands to remain at NSWcup level though, as bloke from Canberra and surrounds aren't likely to accept the Cutters as representatives if we were to be zoned with them, at which point either another more representative brand would have to be found or a new one created.
 
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Hello, I'm The Doctor

First Grade
Messages
9,124
Lol what absolute nonsense.

These "shittier versions of team i like" have real fans, real club connections, in some cases 100+ year identities, as well as people wanting to watch lower grades and their club's future stars.

These Platinum "clubs" (they won't even be clubs) would be generic, soulless franchises who wouldn't establish any identity because no one would care. People only watch lower grades because a) it's their club's second grade, or b) because they like watching Norths or Newtown go round at the old grounds. Neither of these reasons will exist any more.

11 x Hunter Mariners coming up courtesy of Richo

But North and Newtown could easily continue in this Platnum League. Infact your example there of people going to watch them at Henson is exactly why i prefer independent brands; they can offer that nostalgic suburban experience with the team half full of local tradies that was NSWRL in the 70s....

Juast look at the QLD Cup model; all of their teams are branded independently to the NRL and, while they will never compete with the interest the Broncos or the Cowboys will achieve, their fan base incredibly strong as they can represent local communities in ways the NRL teams cannot.

This is RLs chance to develop something comparable to College football in america. If the comp is half full of NRL jerseys, it will never be more than a shitty reserve grade for, as you say, the hardcore fans that get to the NRL game 2 hours early
 
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The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
7,960
Lol what absolute nonsense.

These "shittier versions of team i like" have real fans, real club connections, in some cases 100+ year identities, as well as people wanting to watch lower grades and their club's future stars.

These Platinum "clubs" (they won't even be clubs) would be generic, soulless franchises who wouldn't establish any identity because no one would care. People only watch lower grades because a) it's their club's second grade, or b) because they like watching Norths or Newtown go round at the old grounds. Neither of these reasons will exist any more.

11 x Hunter Mariners coming up courtesy of Richo

Horse sh!t!

If done properly these Platinum clubs could be made to represent clubs with richer histories then any Sydney fan could ever imagine possible outside of the Sydney.

"but, but, but, Penrith might lose their Nswcup team that nobody gave two sh!ts about until now" so f##king what, it's not going to hurt them and maybe it gives the Winsor wolves a chance to step into the void with a handful of other clubs to come together to create something special and eventually add another brand considered to special and to historic to replace sometime down the line.
 
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Last Week

Bench
Messages
3,726
Comparing this proposal to the Qld Cup model isn't really fair.

Fact is, the NRL competition today is an evolution of the NSWRL competition. The Qld teams in todays NRL are just a new level that was created on top of the Qld Cup.

This proposal is a reversal of that.

Things would have been much easier if the Qld Cup/old BRL clubs were able to keep up with the NSWRL clubs. Instead of the NSWRL being so powerful and attempting to strengthen themselves by nationalizing, a national competition could have been created as the premier competition, over the top of the QRL and NSWRL. But, here we are.
 

siv

First Grade
Messages
6,765
Lets take Windsor brand

Its a A grade club in the Penrith district today

It does not have a u20 u18 or u16 team in the NSWRL juniors

To try and randomly choose a A grade club to step up to fill a void will be a issue

As why should Windsor get the nod over St Marys ?

How a franchise is decided to be created and branded will cause issues

As I said all non NRL entities dont have a full pathways from.U16 to RG

Only NRL clubs have this today

The NS Bears are probably the only non NRL club that could step into a CC-North Shore-Manly zone and operate on day one - but they still dont have a U20s team
 

boonboon

Juniors
Messages
734
Lets look at the current situation only a handful of clubs even have NRL Branding today
Penrith Panthers - Penrith is one of the areas getting a Platnium League team
NZ Warriors - SPent most of their NSW Cup time as Auckland Vulcancs anyway
Newcastle Knights- As per Penrith the area is getting a NSW Cup team
Canterbury- Is getting part of an area and the other 2 NRL teams in the area don't currently have a team
Wests Tigers - Have mostly played as 2 split entities anyway in NSW Cup and currently get 20 people nd a dog to games
Manly - Privately owned club is going to be very happy not to have to fund a NSW Cup team

So for all the supposed NSWRL clubs complaining the only NRL teams would be Dogs and Panthers - who's bosses complain about everything
 

siv

First Grade
Messages
6,765
Wonder what would happen if NRL clubs just ignored the NRL and setup their own U16 U18 U20 and RG comps in protest

They fund these bodies today anway
 

franklin2323

Immortal
Messages
33,546
What? Why would the juniors not be "in game" if the panthers stopped developing them??

And saying "Jnr development is the one thing we do well" is exactly the point i was trying to make earlier. If Panthers as an NRL club offer nothing other than junior development (something that can be done by people not holding an NRL licence), then why should they be a First Grade team??

This talk about rationalisation and relocation is only coming up because clubs know that without the fallback of "we produce heaps of juniors" they would have very little to say to justify their continued existence.

Isn't the idea behind this the NRL funds the juniors? No club will be funding them in that case. So the 200m in community investment is overlooked because 'there's too many teams in Sydney?' There's no Sydney team that doesn't bring something to the table all have developments that will fix the bank balances.

I say again what's wrong with how we develop kids now. Let the NRL fund teams in these other areas aswell. No reason we have to wreck what we have now to get a full state 2nd tier competition if clubs see fit to allign with these as Roosters did with Wyong great.

Lets have them all the way from 16's right up
 
Messages
15,496
What is being ignored in this is what happens to the first grade players who are outside the top 17 on a weekly basis. At the moment they are sent to play with a NSW/Qld Cup side which their NRL club has allegiances to (for want of a better word). These allegiances are formed and see close co-operation between the coaching staffs of the NRL and the NSW/Qld Cup teams regarding those players.

Richo's proposal is those players outside the top 17 will play where the ARLC dictate for a side the ARLC nominate, and the NRL side will have no say in those players' development. When you consider the NRL club is the one actually employing them tell me how this is "fair" in any way shape or form?

Also as to Norths and Newtown, under the proposal details release so far, neither team will survive as they do not meet Richo's "criteria". So to say they will survive is complete BS.
 

insert.pause

First Grade
Messages
6,462
Vague!

NRL blueprint for the future

The NRL on Tuesday outlined a proposed blueprint to take the game forward over the next decade.

The plan, drawn up by the Head of Game Strategy and Development, Shane Richardson, is designed to improve player welfare and pathways, upgrade and strengthen the second tier and assist in protecting elite players from burnout.

The strategy will reduce costs for clubs, further grow the game outside the current reach and provide a new level of awareness regarding player welfare as they progress through the elite pathways.

Mr Richardson said Rugby League has an opportunity to extend its reach beyond its current footholds to country Australia, Affiliated States, New Zealand, Pacifica and ultimately internationally.

He said the strategy takes a "whole of game" approach to the challenges of the future.

The key recommendations include:

- Increasing the size of NRL squads to 36 players – including six rookies

- Restricting players from making their NRL debuts until the year they turn 19. No player to be signed with an agent until he is 17 - and contracts for these players should be for a maximum three-year term

- Restructuring the National Youth Competition into a state-based under-20 competition

- Introducing rookie contracts for the start of the 2018 season with each club allowed to sign three rookies each year on two-year contracts

- Revamping and upgrading the State League into a Platinum League to spread the footprint of the competition into all the areas that play Rugby League

- Easing player welfare by considering additional leave, creating a formal International window over an eight-year period and reducing the number of five-day turnarounds

Mr Richardson said the phasing out of the NYC and payments for under-18 players - along with a new business model for the second tier - would result in a $20 million saving for the NRL clubs.

There would be a significant increase in expenditure in the pathways and in particular the second tier by the NRL.

"We are looking to improve and extend the pathways not detract from them," Mr Richardson said.

Mr Richardson said a committee representing the State bodies would help determine the teams which take part in the Platinum League.

He said the models being shown during consultation for 11 teams in NSW competition were only examples to demonstrate how far the game could reach if the new League was established. But no determination had been made on the final makeup of the League.

"We want to give everyone the opportunity to play in the NRL – whether they come from the country, New Zealand, the Affiliated States, Pacifica or anywhere else in the world of Rugby League," Mr Richardson said.

"This strategy is not intended to squeeze anyone out of the game - it is designed to include more participants than ever before."

Mr Richardson rubbished suggestions that there had not been sufficient consultation on the blueprint.

He said meetings had been held with all stakeholders and that consultation was on-going.

"Further consultation with the RLPA and other interested parties will be held before any final decisions are made," he said.

"This is an exciting time for the game…we have an opportunity with the new broadcast rights deal to stretch our vision and allow the game to break out from some of the restraints of the past.

"Most importantly, we have started a discussion about the way forward and that has to be a positive start for the game."

http://www.nrl.com/nrl-blueprint-for-the-future/tabid/10874/newsid/91182/default.aspx
 

adamkungl

Immortal
Messages
42,971
Sounds promising in parts, but raises more questions than it answers.

Doesn't address concerns over the restructuring or dismantling of Reserve Grade and NYC.

What do the 19 players not chosen on match day do with themselves? How will NRL clubs link to Platinum clubs?

Considering they are already on the back foot, this announcement should have come with a lot more detail.
 

KeepingTheFaith

Referee
Messages
25,235
I don't have an issue with this in theory, but theory has never been RL's problem, more the constant f**k ups in the execution part of the equation.

I don't like the idea of a draft, never have, never will, but that's a separate issue.

So when it says "Players can't sign for an NRL club until the year they turn 19" I take it that means an 18 year old can sign Jan 1st of "year X" even if his birthday is Dec 31st of that year?

It's nice to say that agents might be kept away from kids until they turn 17, but will they really? I hope there's some sort of scheme involved in this to ensure that actually happens.
 

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