NRL wants two conference comp

[Perth Red]

You know that's a pretty fun idea. Of course fans created in past 20 years support tigers not magpies. I see magpies struggling for support & being under pressure to relocate themselves. Growing south west catchment would be handed to rival codes.

Depends how many of the current fanbase are Tigers fans that wouldn't go to a Western Sydney Magpies club, likewise sponsors?
If Sydney SW is booming as is claimed then surely a Western Sydney Magpies with the financial clout of Wests Ashfield behind it playing at a redeveloped Campbelltown would be able to make a go of it? If not then I guess it tells us that the region cant sustain a stand alone NRL club after all? I suppose they may be one of the smaller supporter bases initially but given majority of Sydney clubs struggle to get 12k through the gate its not exactly a high bar that's being set.

 

[Pippen94]

Depends how many of the current fanbase are Tigers fans that wouldn't go to a Western Sydney Magpies club, likewise sponsors?
If Sydney SW is booming as is claimed then surely a Western Sydney Magpies with the financial clout of Wests Ashfield behind it playing at a redeveloped Campbelltown would be able to make a go of it? If not then I guess it tells us that the region cant sustain a stand alone NRL club after all? I suppose they may be one of the smaller supporter bases initially but given majority of Sydney clubs struggle to get 12k through the gate its not exactly a high bar that's being set.

You can't change brand of club ppl have supported for 20 years. You alienate fans who will go elsewhere. Big lesson from Super league should be not to shit on existing fans.

Right now less than 10k watch NRL in Perth. That would indicate there's not much interest in game over there. You're pissing off a lot of Sydney fans who keep game afloat for a Pipedream which has failed before.

 

[Perth Red]

You can't change brand of club ppl have supported for 20 years. You alienate fans who will go elsewhere. Big lesson from Super league should be not to shit on existing fans.

Right now less than 10k watch NRL in Perth. That would indicate there's not much interest in game over there. You're pissing off a lot of Sydney fans who keep game afloat for a Pipedream which has failed before.

lol. no there aren't less than 10k fans who will turn out to watch a game of NRL in Perth. It varies from 9k to 38k as we have shown over the last ten years. We had one bad year in 2017 which from memory of the games we had a big storm happening during one of them.
Crowd avg for NRl games in Perth
2018 19k x2 (double header)
2017 9k
2016 12k
2015 21k
2014 16k
2013 20k

I'm not saying there wont be pssed off people, change psses some people off, that's inevitable especially in an emotionally charged world of club loyalty. At the moment the Tigers are a bit of Frankenstein's monster with no real home base, a brand that doesnt represent its ownership and performing well below par as a club on and off the field.
What I am asking is would a Western Sydney Magpies funded by Wests Ashfield out of Campbelltown be viable and supported? and would the Balmain side of the Tigers fanbase be supportive of a West Coast Tigers that played some games in Sydney?

Now Elias's consortium may be Sydney based ex Tigers fans so its all a pointless discussion (especially as I cant see current owners selling unless they have to) BUT if it is Sage or the Brisbane Tigers behind it then it does throw up some interesting possibilities for how the NRL could go to 18 clubs with min risk.

Imagine if we had 15k perth members and 10k Sydney members, Sage and his millions behind it, investing in Balmain and WA jnr system to support development of Tigers players, big boost to Sydney crowds when tigers played them from the Syndey balmain fanbase etc etc. And not only that but we dont lose a sydney club and in fact give it back to a genuine brand and region to develop without the distraction of the Tigers part of the equation to worry about. Not a bad scenario to dream about and possibly worth annoying a few thousand recently acquired Wests Tigers fans?

 

[Pippen94]

lol. no there aren't less than 10k fans who will turn out to watch a game of NRL in Perth. It varies from 9k to 38k as we have shown over the last ten years. We had one bad year in 2017 which from memory of the games we had a big storm happening during one of them.
Crowd avg for NRl games in Perth
2018 19k x2 (double header)
2017 9k
2016 12k
2015 21k
2014 16k
2013 20k

I'm not saying there wont be pssed off people, change psses some people off, that's inevitable especially in an emotionally charged world of club loyalty. At the moment the Tigers are a bit of Frankenstein's monster with no real home base, a brand that doesnt represent its ownership and performing well below par as a club on and off the field.
What I am asking is would a Western Sydney Magpies funded by Wests Ashfield out of Campbelltown be viable and supported? and would the Balmain side of the Tigers fanbase be supportive of a West Coast Tigers that played some games in Sydney?

Now Elias's consortium may be Sydney based ex Tigers fans so its all a pointless discussion (especially as I cant see current owners selling unless they have to) BUT if it is Sage or the Brisbane Tigers behind it then it does throw up some interesting possibilities for how the NRL could go to 18 clubs with min risk.

Imagine if we had 15k perth members and 10k Sydney members, Sage and his millions behind it, investing in Balmain and WA jnr system to support development of Tigers players, big boost to Sydney crowds when tigers played them from the Syndey balmain fanbase etc etc. And not only that but we dont lose a sydney club and in fact give it back to a genuine brand and region to develop without the distraction of the Tigers part of the equation to worry about. Not a bad scenario to dream about and possibly worth annoying a few thousand recently acquired Wests Tigers fans?

2018 was 3 years ago. Last week's TV games in Perth did 2k & 7k!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Adelaide beats Perth. You know this but you're just dishonest

No, magpies won't work because idea takes area for granted which will be obstacle too great for club to ever overcome.

A league set up 3rd team in south west & afl probably would do same. NRL has been established with strong brand for 20 years but it's done stupid things before so who knows?!

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

2018 was 3 years ago. Last week's TV games in Perth did 2k & 7k!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Adelaide beats Perth. You know this but you're just dishonest

No, magpies won't work because idea takes area for granted which will be obstacle too great for club to ever overcome.

A league set up 3rd team in south west & afl probably would do same. NRL has been established with strong brand for 20 years but it's done stupid things before so who knows?!

Terrible ratings, but what incentive is there for people from Perth to embrace our game?

PVL insulted them. Greenberg strung them along.

Up here in Logan I've seen the consequences of inaction and apathy from our game's governing bodies. 19 years ago we had a club called the Logan Scorpions. They were f**ked over by an exorbitant lease that the Logan City Council forced them to pay in 1987. It sent them broke. The QRL and ARL did nothing to save the club. Its base at Meakin Park was bought up by the Brisbane Strikers soccer club that used to play in the NSL.

Logan City Council created a masterplan to convert the northern suburb of Springwood into the city's CBD. It's located right alongside the motorway and easy to access from Brisbane. The Brisbane Lions built the Lions @Springwood Social Club here, flush with pokies, and make around $5m a year. Just down the road is a major intersection on Kingston Rd/Compton Rd. It's where the Scorpions wanted to be based in 1986, but the LCC forced them to play out of Meakin Park. Thousands of people travel past Cronulla Park everyday and it's close to the motorway, so easy to access. Fumbleball now own the land and are shifting the Springwood Pumas there!

I contacted the QRL, MPs and councillors about reforming the Scorpions and putting them at Cronulla Park a decade ago. QRL were rude and didn't give a shit. The then state MP was interested. The councillor for the area never responded to my calls and is now the mayor.

Slowly but surely, fumbleball is making serious inroads into northern Logan, which is the most heavily populated and commercially active section of the city. RL could have owned this area. Broncos could have owned it 19 years ago by bailing the Scorpions out and making them a feeder club, but nope, they let them die.

Our game needs to stop wasting so much money bailing out unsustainable NRL clubs and focus on buying up key infrastructure that will grow participation. That's what AwFuL is doing and it's paying dividends. Every time people drive past Compton Rd/Kingtston Rd, and thousands do each day as it's an extremely busy intersection, they will see fumbleball posts. It's great advertising for their sport, which only has 3 or so clubs in the city, but has one of them in the most important location, giving people the impression it is bigger than it is.

This conference system might bring money into the game, especially for the Sydney clubs, but it won't be used to buy up the infrastructure our game needs to win the hearts of tomorrow's generation. That means in 20 years from now the Sydney clubs will have less fans, less players to choose from, and less money from sponsors as it'll be a dwindling game while AwFuL goes from strength to strength.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

You know that's a pretty fun idea. Of course fans created in past 20 years support tigers not magpies. I see magpies struggling for support & being under pressure to relocate themselves. Growing south west catchment would be handed to rival codes.

Magpies, as a brand, died in 1999. Kids these days only know of the Tigers. Anyone under the age of 26 or 27 probably cannot remember seeing the Magpies on TV.

If Tigers move to Brisbane and Perth then Wests will have to merge with Canterbury or Canterbury will have to take over the region as the Western Sydney Bulldogs. Fans will be lost, but new ones can be gained over the next 20 years if everything is marketed correctly and the right systems are put in place.

 

[Pippen94]

Terrible ratings, but what incentive is there for people from Perth to embrace our game?

PVL insulted them. Greenberg strung them along.

Up here in Logan I've seen the consequences of inaction and apathy from our game's governing bodies. 19 years ago we had a club called the Logan Scorpions. They were f**ked over by an exorbitant lease that the Logan City Council forced them to pay in 1987. It sent them broke. The QRL and ARL did nothing to save the club. Its base at Meakin Park was bought up by the Brisbane Strikers soccer club that used to play in the NSL.

Logan City Council created a masterplan to convert the northern suburb of Springwood into the city's CBD. It's located right alongside the motorway and easy to access from Brisbane. The Brisbane Lions built the Lions @Springwood Social Club here, flush with pokies, and make around $5m a year. Just down the road is a major intersection on Kingston Rd/Compton Rd. It's where the Scorpions wanted to be based in 1986, but the LCC forced them to play out of Meakin Park. Thousands of people travel past Cronulla Park everyday and it's close to the motorway, so easy to access. Fumbleball now own the land and are shifting the Springwood Pumas there!

I contacted the QRL, MPs and councillors about reforming the Scorpions and putting them at Cronulla Park a decade ago. QRL were rude and didn't give a shit. The then state MP was interested. The councillor for the area never responded to my calls and is now the mayor.

Slowly but surely, fumbleball is making serious inroads into northern Logan, which is the most heavily populated and commercially active section of the city. RL could have owned this area. Broncos could have owned it 19 years ago by bailing the Scorpions out and making them a feeder club, but nope, they let them die.

Our game needs to stop wasting so much money bailing out unsustainable NRL clubs and focus on buying up key infrastructure that will grow participation. That's what AwFuL is doing and it's paying dividends. Every time people drive past Compton Rd/Kingtston Rd, and thousands do each day as it's an extremely busy intersection, they will see fumbleball posts. It's great advertising for their sport, which only has 3 or so clubs in the city, but has one of them in the most important location, giving people the impression it is bigger than it is.

This conference system might bring money into the game, especially for the Sydney clubs, but it won't be used to buy up the infrastructure our game needs to win the hearts of tomorrow's generation. That means in 20 years from now the Sydney clubs will have less fans, less players to choose from, and less money from sponsors as it'll be a dwindling game while AwFuL goes from strength to strength.

I don't know what point you're trying to make.
In 20 years Sydney's population will be is excess of 10 million. Whatever advantage NRL has now with strong Sydney presence will be multiplied.

I've always advocated that NRL should look to replicate this presence in seqld. Look at this week's ratings; soutgs scored under 90k in Brisbane 2nd biggest league market. Qld derby almost doubled it.
Conference system where qld teams play each other more often can only strengthen game there. Imagine conference final at lang park between a Logan team & gold coast or broncs & cows?! That would be huge.

As far as Sydney teams going bankrupt seems me that it's the regional teams like Newcastle & Titans which struggle. Idea of 20k members & crowds is good but a stable club nobody else wants to watch brings no value to league.

 

[Pippen94]

Magpies, as a brand, died in 1999. Kids these days only know of the Tigers. Anyone under the age of 26 or 27 probably cannot remember seeing the Magpies on TV.

If Tigers move to Brisbane and Perth then Wests will have to merge with Canterbury or Canterbury will have to take over the region as the Western Sydney Bulldogs. Fans will be lost, but new ones can be gained over the next 20 years if everything is marketed correctly and the right systems are put in place.

How about they just switch to another code?!

 

[Perth Red]

2018 was 3 years ago. Last week's TV games in Perth did 2k & 7k!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Adelaide beats Perth. You know this but you're just dishonest

No, magpies won't work because idea takes area for granted which will be obstacle too great for club to ever overcome.

A league set up 3rd team in south west & afl probably would do same. NRL has been established with strong brand for 20 years but it's done stupid things before so who knows?!

Oh you're talking about TV lol Game is buried on TV on digital channel and any self respecting NRL fan here has been watching it on Fox for the last two decades from when the game was replayed at midnight if you were lucky and it wasn't replaced by an American golf tournament! I haven't watched an NRL game on Ch9 for 15 years.
Origin and GF gets around 100k audience here showing you the possibilities.

Dont understand what you mean about the magpies. How can rebranding them Western Sydney Magpies and playing at Campbelltown full time be taking the SW region for granted? It would be interesting to know how many of th current 15k active Wests tigers supporters are old Wests or Balmain fans and how many are more recent followers. If most are the former you lose little splitting the club and giving both sets of fans their original entities to follow, all be it for Tigers fans a different iteration.

 

[Perth Red]

Magpies, as a brand, died in 1999. Kids these days only know of the Tigers. Anyone under the age of 26 or 27 probably cannot remember seeing the Magpies on TV.

If Tigers move to Brisbane and Perth then Wests will have to merge with Canterbury or Canterbury will have to take over the region as the Western Sydney Bulldogs. Fans will be lost, but new ones can be gained over the next 20 years if everything is marketed correctly and the right systems are put in place.

Magpies are the wealthy side of the coin that is bankrolling the club. Their owners wont want to merge with anyone. I very much doubt they will sell to Elias unless they are under financial strain from covid impact or they feel it could lead to Magpies being a stand alone club again.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

I don't know what point you're trying to make.
In 20 years Sydney's population will be is excess of 10 million. Whatever advantage NRL has now with strong Sydney presence will be multiplied.

I've always advocated that NRL should look to replicate this presence in seqld. Look at this week's ratings; soutgs scored under 90k in Brisbane 2nd biggest league market. Qld derby almost doubled it.
Conference system where qld teams play each other more often can only strengthen game there. Imagine conference final at lang park between a Logan team & gold coast or broncs & cows?! That would be huge.

As far as Sydney teams going bankrupt seems me that it's the regional teams like Newcastle & Titans which struggle. Idea of 20k members & crowds is good but a stable club nobody else wants to watch brings no value to league.

I was referring to the children growing up now and those who'll be born within the next 20 years. AwFuL's strategy is get to them young, before they've developed an attachment to any sport, because children are easily led. The other group they've targeted is mothers who've never played RL or fumbleball. With most kids in Australia not living full time with their father, mums have all the say. They've brainwashed women into thinking fumbleball is a safe game played by great humanitarians who never do anything wrong and have an IQ matching Einstein. A few years ago they went around as grandstanding about AFLW as if it was the world's firstever women's sporting competition. A compliant media pushes the BS so gullible young mums believe it.

 

[Perth Red]

Sydney's population is not nearly doubling in 20 years lol. Not that it means much. Sydney attendance has barely changed in the last 15 years sydney metro tv audiences have gone down in anything and the Sydney population has gone up by around 1.1million in that time, seems none of the new people moving to Sydney are very interested in NRL matches.

 

[Pippen94]

Sydney's population is not nearly doubling in 20 years lol. Not that it means much. Sydney attendance has barely changed in the last 15 years sydney metro tv audiences have gone down in anything and the Sydney population has gone up by around 1.1million in that time, seems none of the new people moving to Sydney are very interested in NRL matches.

Two million in last ten years. On that projection would 10 million in 20 years.

https://www.population.net.au/sydney-population/

If history teaches anything (look who I am talking to) it increases faster than expected

 

[Pippen94]

I was referring to the children growing up now and those who'll be born within the next 20 years. AwFuL's is get to them young before they've developed an attachment to any sport and are easily led. The other group they've targeted is mothers who've never played RL or fumbleball. With most kids in Australia not living full time with their father, mums have all the say. They've brainwashed women into thinking fumbleball is a safe game played by great humanitarians who never so anything wrong and have an IQ matching Einstein. A few years ago they pretending that AwFuL invented women's sport. A compliant media pushes the BS so gullible young mums believe it.

Kinda a tangent don't you think??

 

[Perth Red]

Two million in last ten years. On that projection would 10 million in 20 years.

https://www.population.net.au/sydney-population/

If history teaches anything (look who I am talking to) it increases faster than expected

Not that fussed either way tbh but they are estimates until we get the next census. This website has it very different and this article claims Sydney has slowed significantly

Sydney Population 2021 (Demographics, Maps, Graphs) (worldpopulationreview.com)

Sydney's population growth at a seven-year low (smh.com.au)

You failed to comment on the fact Sydney has grown around 20% in the last 15 years with seemingly zero growth in NRL club support? Doesn't really matter how quickly the city is growing if the new comers aren't interested in RL.

 

[Pippen94]

Oh you're talking about TV lol Game is buried on TV on digital channel and any self respecting NRL fan here has been watching it on Fox for the last two decades from when the game was replayed at midnight if you were lucky and it wasn't replaced by an American golf tournament! I haven't watched an NRL game on Ch9 for 15 years.
Origin and GF gets around 100k audience here showing you the possibilities.

Dont understand what you mean about the magpies. How can rebranding them Western Sydney Magpies and playing at Campbelltown full time be taking the SW region for granted? It would be interesting to know how many of th current 15k active Wests tigers supporters are old Wests or Balmain fans and how many are more recent followers. If most are the former you lose little splitting the club and giving both sets of fans their original entities to follow, all be it for Tigers fans a different iteration.

Ah yes, you didn't realize it was TV the same week NRL drew 2k in Perth?!
Knowing those surveys 2k would be less than margin of error or just one TV box. Theoretically there's a chance zero ppl where watching NRL in Perth that day.

..& this is the city crying out for an NRL team??!

Makes you realize why NRL & channel 9 don't want a team from there.

Can see you here in 2040 complaining...

 

[Pippen94]

Not that fussed either way tbh but they are estimates until we get the next census. This website has it very different and this article claims Sydney has slowed significantly

Sydney Population 2021 (Demographics, Maps, Graphs) (worldpopulationreview.com)

Sydney's population growth at a seven-year low (smh.com.au)

You failed to comment on the fact Sydney has grown around 20% in the last 15 years with seemingly zero growth in NRL club support? Doesn't really matter how quickly the city is growing if the new comers aren't interested in RL.

Maybe Perth will have another mining boom & you can boast some meaningful growth instead turning into next Adelaide?!

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Two million in last ten years. On that projection would 10 million in 20 years.

https://www.population.net.au/sydney-population/

If history teaches anything (look who I am talking to) it increases faster than expected

The most important stat is how big is Sydney's RL community today versus what it was 40 years ago, and what will it be like in 20 years. Population increase doesn't necessarily translate into more RL fans. Same applies with Brisbane. I'd love to see if we'vd gone forwards, backwards or remained stagnant.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Kinda a tangent don't you think??

It probably is, but it's the number one problem facing our game and will lead to our demise unless we address it. Nine NRL teams in Sydney haven't been able to stop one AwFuL club from becoming the biggest team in town, so it's stupid to think everything will be fine if we keep with the status quo. Up until a decade ago there was just one AwFuL club in Sydney, yet fumbleball grew and RL declined at the grassroots level. It proves that throwing money at 16 NRL clubs, while the grassroots game in Sydney and Brisbane is left wither away on the vine, is hurting our game as much, if not more, than the Super League War. If we cannot get kids to play and watch the game then we'll end up like French RL.

Australian Rugby Union was booming 20 years ago and focused all its attention on propping up the professional game, to the detriment of the bottom tier. Look where it is now. That's our fate unless we address the problem. We might need to change the rules of the game to attract more people to play it at all levels if we wish to remain a popular spectactor sport. We can't keep pretending that the decline in participation isn't causing long term problems.

 

[Perth Red]

Ah yes, you didn't realize it was TV the same week NRL drew 2k in Perth?!
Knowing those surveys 2k would be less than margin of error or just one TV box. Theoretically there's a chance zero ppl where watching NRL in Perth that day.

..& this is the city crying out for an NRL team??!

Makes you realize why NRL & channel 9 don't want a team from there.

Can see you here in 2040 complaining...

You failed to comment on the fact Sydney has grown around 20% in the last 15 years with seemingly zero growth in NRL club support? Doesn't really matter how quickly the city is growing if the new comers aren't interested in RL.