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NRL's growth mindset points to 18th team. And it ain't Perth.

Messages
14,822
@Canard asked about attendances for Sydney clubs over the last decade. It takes time to get the real numbers as they take games interstate.

I've omitted games the Magic Round and Bundaberg games for the Bulldogs because they distort the average.

Canterbury Bulldogs
OpponentVenueAttendance
BroncosStadium Australia13,453
PanthersWestern Sydney Stadium11,157
RoostersStadium Australia9,544
DragonsBelmore16,991
EelsStadium Australia20,184
TigersWestern Sydney Stadium14,806
SharksWestern Sydney Stadium8,837
RabbitohsStadium Australia19,126
TitansWestern Sydney Stadium11,726
Sea EaglesStadium Australia13,648

 

Wb1234

Immortal
Messages
33,588
C'mon, you can't say the TV product suffers when the ground is full of empty seats? I watch most games but if its Thurs or Fri night, Bulldogs vs Cowboys at ANZ and there is 65k empty seats and no atmosphere to speak of then my interest and excitement as a neutral drops. Anyone who values their time would agree,
Credit you watch way more than me

if I manage two games a week it’s a good week

heck after origin I might watch a handful of games till the finals

so many teams are clueless
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
69,520
C'mon, you can't say the TV product suffers when the ground is full of empty seats? I watch most games but if its Thurs or Fri night, Bulldogs vs Cowboys at ANZ and there is 65k empty seats and no atmosphere to speak of then my interest and excitement as a neutral drops. Anyone who values their time would agree,
Yep watching a game in a full 30k-40k stadium v watching a game at anz is a chalk and cheese experience even on tv. You also get the sense the players lift their intensity when playing in front of packed modern day stadiums. Sooner bulldogs and souths get out of that shthole the better for everyone.
 
Messages
14,822
Everyone knows this though, it's not some new fact that you've stumbled upon and need to educate us poor rubes about. It's ingrained in the folklore of the Broncos formation.

It's like telling people that the first Origin game was the third in interstate series in 1980.

What I don't understand is why you seem to hold a grudge against the Sydney clubs who paid QLDers more money then there clubs could, and what do you want done about it 40 years later?

I mean I could easily say that the BRL ruined the Cairns comp by poaching players by offering higher salaries, but that's a bit nutty isn't it?

And yes, I couldn't give two shits about the Scorpions, they weren't a traditional BRL team and existed for a blink of an eye.

My "grudge" is the Sydney clubs are parasitic by nature. Throughout history their success has come from the demise of people who have a gambling addiction unwittingly funding these clubs by putting money into gaming machines. The "nationalisation" of the NSWRL killed rhe BRL, NZRL competitions, WARL and has seriously hurt the RFL. It's been great for the tiny Sydney clubs and their insular fans, but it has almost killed the game in New Zealand, Western Australian and England. It's a miracle Queenslanders are still loyal to this game despite being treated like second class citizens since the 1980s. There was open discrimination against Queenslanders during the 1980s by the Australian Test selectors.

Now the parasites are trying to kill the Queensland Cup so that a few hundred old codgers from Western Sydney can watch "reserve grade" before the NRL. A decade ago they killed the WARL.

The simple fact is the Sydney clubs cannot survive without gaming machine revenue and the annual grant. The broadcast rights would be much less without the interstate clubs -- Broncos, Storm and Cowboys give the game a profile in Brisbane and Melbourne -- yet they funds are distributed "evenly" so the weak clubs from Sydney can field teams while denying a spot for Adelaide, Perth and Brisbane 2. Everyone has missed out so that insular Sydney fans can prosper and think they're bigger than the game. It's why our game is falling behind fumbleball.
 
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Messages
14,822
C'mon, you can't say the TV product suffers when the ground is full of empty seats? I watch most games but if its Thurs or Fri night, Bulldogs vs Cowboys at ANZ and there is 65k empty seats and no atmosphere to speak of then my interest and excitement as a neutral drops. Anyone who values their time would agree,
Last year the Bulldogs took their game against the Cowboys to Bundaberg. Pretty sad they have to take it to a small regional city in central Queensland.
 

Pneuma

First Grade
Messages
5,475
C'mon, you can't say the TV product suffers when the ground is full of empty seats? I watch most games but if its Thurs or Fri night, Bulldogs vs Cowboys at ANZ and there is 65k empty seats and no atmosphere to speak of then my interest and excitement as a neutral drops. Anyone who values their time would agree,
It’s your opinion against statistical evidence. The fact you and Perth wank face turn off the television whilst 100,000s don’t will do me.
 

Pneuma

First Grade
Messages
5,475
My "grudge" is the Sydney clubs are parasitic by nature. Throughout history their success has come from the demise of people who have a gambling addiction unwittingly funding these clubs by putting money into gaming machines. The "nationalisation" of the NSWRL killed rhe BRL, NZRL competitions, WARL and has seriously hurt the RFL. It's been great for the tiny Sydney clubs and their insular fans, but it has almost killed the game in New Zealand, Western Australian and England. It's a miracle Queenslanders are still loyal to this game despite being treated like second class citizens since the 1980s. There was open discrimination against Queenslanders during the 1980s by the Australian Test selectors.

Now the parasites are trying to kill the Queensland Cup so that a few hundred old codgers from Western Sydney can watch "reserve grade" before the NRL. A decade ago they killed the WARL.

The simple fact is the Sydney clubs cannot survive without gaming machine revenue and the annual grant. The broadcast rights would be much less without the interstate clubs -- Broncos, Storm and Cowboys give the game a profile in Brisbane and Melbourne -- yet they funds are distributed "evenly" so the weak clubs from Sydney can field teams while denying a spot for Adelaide, Perth and Brisbane 2. Everyone has missed out so that insular Sydney fans can prosper and think they're bigger than the game. It's why our game is falling behind fumbleball.
Your grudge is the fact a total moron like you even exists. I hope you well lol
 

Gobsmacked

Bench
Messages
3,122
This hatred for the Sydney clubs baffles me.
Do you not realise that they build the sport? Like well over 100 years ago, they started a comp from the ground up, built a fan base, built revenue...
They're all Sydney clubs because Jetstar wasn't around! Brisbane was too small. Luckily for the Brisbane players, eventually there was enough money in the game worth they travelling to Sydney to play and get paid.
As transport options improved, new teams were added.
The Sydney clubs don't owe you shit.

You owe the Sydney clubs.

They're why the game exists.

Self interested peanut.
Pot calling the kettle black.
 
Messages
14,822
This hatred for the Sydney clubs baffles me.
Do you not realise that they build the sport? Like well over 100 years ago, they started a comp from the ground up, built a fan base, built revenue...
They're all Sydney clubs because Jetstar wasn't around! Brisbane was too small. Luckily for the Brisbane players, eventually there was enough money in the game worth they travelling to Sydney to play and get paid.
As transport options improved, new teams were added.
The Sydney clubs don't owe you shit.

You owe the Sydney clubs.

They're why the game exists.

Self interested peanut.
Pot calling the kettle black.

The game wasn't "built" in Sydney. It was exported to Sydney and Brisbane in 1908 by New Zealanders who learnt about the sport while touring England in 1907. The sport was invented by the English in 1906.

Here's an excerpt from a great article on The Roar about the origins of rugby league in Brisbane and Sydney:

Beginnings – 1907 to 1908

The history of rugby league in Queensland began mere months after the first steps taken down south, but Brisbane had already seen games of various codes of football for decades. For example, the first recorded official game of ‘Victorian rules’ played in Brisbane occurred in 1866 and this code was the premier game in South East Queensland until the late 1880s, being the game of choice in the grammar schools.

However, the sport of rugby union was gaining popularity, particularly since it provided opportunities for spirited representative fixtures against NSW. The first of these was played at the Sydney Cricket Ground in 1882 and the following year saw Queensland defeat NSW in Brisbane, significantly adding to the game’s popularity. In 1887 the grammar schools in South East Queensland voted to defect from Victorian rules to rugby union, cementing its place as the state’s premier code.

Less than a decade later the seeds for change were planted in the north of England when in 1895 a Northern Union was formed, splitting from the rugby establishment and allowing compensation payments to injured players. Rugby league was born, sort of. It wasn’t until 1906 that the rules of the games significantly diverged when the play-the-ball was introduced and teams were reduced to 13-a-side.

Only 12 months later, New Zealand had formed a breakaway team and the ‘All Golds’ set off on a historic tour of Great Britain, playing against ‘Northern Union’ teams. Meanwhile, powerbrokers in Sydney established the NSW Rugby League in August 1907 and signed rugby union pin-up boy Dally Messenger along with many others to launch a competition in 1908. The All Golds played a series against NSW in August 1907 before heading to Europe (using rugby union rules as the league rules had not yet been obtained by the locals). Dally Messenger proved such a drawcard that he was invited on the All Golds tour.

Rebels up in Brisbane were following a similar path, with the ‘Queensland Rugby Association’ being formed late in February 1908, just six months after their Sydney counterparts. It was considered too rushed to form a proper club competition in 1908. Instead, a series of representative fixtures and exhibition games were held. Three Queenslanders were selected in the first-ever Australian team, who played the All Golds in Sydney in May 1908 upon their return from Britain.

The following week, 16 May 1908 saw a Queensland team play the All Golds at the Brisbane Exhibition Ground, losing 34 to 12. Three further games were played in Brisbane as part of the tour. The Queenslanders were no match for the battle-hardened Kiwis, to the point that Dally Messenger switched sides and played for Queensland for their second encounter, helping the home side to a 12-all draw. Finally, on 30 May Brisbane hosted its first Test match, with New Zealand emerging victorious 24 to 12 in front of 6000 spectators.

A New Zealand Maori representative team toured South East Queensland through June, playing five matches. Then, in July 1908 we saw the very first interstate clashes between Queensland and NSW. It was not an auspicious beginning. The Queenslanders, still learning the rules and with no week-to-week competition, were no match for the New South Welshmen. NSW won the first two encounters in Sydney by a whopping combined 80 to 8 and a third encounter, featuring 12 out of 13 new selections for NSW, was a victory to the southerners by a more respectable 12 to 3. Over 11,000 spectators attended the games.

It would be another 14 years and a fair few one-sided matches before Queensland would win its first interstate match in 1922. From there, Queensland would win eight encounters in a row (and 17 from 24 over the next five years), showing how far the game had come in the north in a short time. Also, by 1923 the two interstate encounters drew a combined total of 57,000 spectators, showing just how quickly the game itself had grown.

Why did it take some decades for Queensland to catch up to NSW in interstate matches, despite the games themselves starting within months of each other? The answer lies in 1909 when the NSWRL swooped on the 1908/09 Wallabies and signed fourteen rebels to the new code.

This had the simultaneous effect of boosting NSW Rugby League and crippling its union rivals, but since not one of the players signed was from Queensland, it also concentrated rugby league talent south of the border and set Queensland Rugby League up for a long, hard road to parity. It was not until the 1920s that Queensland Rugby League were able to facilitate defections of their own from a crippled Queensland Rugby Union that some sort of parity was achieved.

But back in 1908 all that was still to come. The rules had been learnt and the appetite of spectators whetted. The stage was set for the 1909 inaugural Brisbane Rugby League season.

The following week, 16 May 1908 saw a Queensland team play the All Golds at the Brisbane Exhibition Ground, losing 34 to 12. Three further games were played in Brisbane as part of the tour. The Queenslanders were no match for the battle-hardened Kiwis, to the point that Dally Messenger switched sides and played for Queensland for their second encounter, helping the home side to a 12-all draw. Finally, on 30 May Brisbane hosted its first Test match, with New Zealand emerging victorious 24 to 12 in front of 6000 spectators.

A New Zealand Maori representative team toured South East Queensland through June, playing five matches. Then, in July 1908 we saw the very first interstate clashes between Queensland and NSW. It was not an auspicious beginning. The Queenslanders, still learning the rules and with no week-to-week competition, were no match for the New South Welshmen. NSW won the first two encounters in Sydney by a whopping combined 80 to 8 and a third encounter, featuring 12 out of 13 new selections for NSW, was a victory to the southerners by a more respectable 12 to 3. Over 11,000 spectators attended the games.

It would be another 14 years and a fair few one-sided matches before Queensland would win its first interstate match in 1922. From there, Queensland would win eight encounters in a row (and 17 from 24 over the next five years), showing how far the game had come in the north in a short time. Also, by 1923 the two interstate encounters drew a combined total of 57,000 spectators, showing just how quickly the game itself had grown.

Why did it take some decades for Queensland to catch up to NSW in interstate matches, despite the games themselves starting within months of each other? The answer lies in 1909 when the NSWRL swooped on the 1908/09 Wallabies and signed fourteen rebels to the new code.

This had the simultaneous effect of boosting NSW Rugby League and crippling its union rivals, but since not one of the players signed was from Queensland, it also concentrated rugby league talent south of the border and set Queensland Rugby League up for a long, hard road to parity. It was not until the 1920s that Queensland Rugby League were able to facilitate defections of their own from a crippled Queensland Rugby Union that some sort of parity was achieved.

But back in 1908 all that was still to come. The rules had been learnt and the appetite of spectators whetted. The stage was set for the 1909 inaugural Brisbane Rugby League season.

Four teams lined up in May 1909 for the first Brisbane Rugby League season – Fortitude Valley (inner city), South Brisbane and North Brisbane were all splits from existing rugby union clubs and they were joined by Toombul, the unofficial 1908 ‘Premiers’.

The competition was run by the Queensland Rugby League (first called the Queensland Rugby Association, then the Queensland Amateur Rugby League) with no separate Brisbane administrative body. Games were played at the Brisbane Cricket Ground (i.e. The Gabba, now the home of AFL’s Brisbane Lions). Players were paid for out of pocket expenses only.


NSWRL signed 14 players from the Wallabies in 1908. Queensland's rugby union players remained loyal to the QRU. This gave the NSWRL a huge advantage as they had established Wallabies playing in their competiton, whereas the BRL had to start from scratch against a full strength QRU. It wasn't until rugby union competitions in Queensland were suspended due to WWII that the balance of power shifted to Queensland, as the QRU's players switched over to the BRL. It's an example of NSWRL reigning supreme when they have all the advantages, but crumbling like a stack of cards when forced to play by the same rules.

You've now exposed yourself as a moron who doesn't know shit about rugby league in New Zealand, Queensland, England or even NSW!
 
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Gobsmacked

Bench
Messages
3,122
The game wasn't "built" in Sydney. It was exported to Sydney and Brisbane in 1908 by New Zealanders who learnt about the sport while touring England in 1907. The sport was invented by the English in 1906.

Here's an excerpt from a great article on The Roar about the origins of rugby league in Brisbane and Sydney:

Beginnings – 1907 to 1908
The history of rugby league in Queensland began mere months after the first steps taken down south, but Brisbane had already seen games of various codes of football for decades. For example, the first recorded official game of ‘Victorian rules’ played in Brisbane occurred in 1866 and this code was the premier game in South East Queensland until the late 1880s, being the game of choice in the grammar schools.​
However, the sport of rugby union was gaining popularity, particularly since it provided opportunities for spirited representative fixtures against NSW. The first of these was played at the Sydney Cricket Ground in 1882 and the following year saw Queensland defeat NSW in Brisbane, significantly adding to the game’s popularity. In 1887 the grammar schools in South East Queensland voted to defect from Victorian rules to rugby union, cementing its place as the state’s premier code.​
Less than a decade later the seeds for change were planted in the north of England when in 1895 a Northern Union was formed, splitting from the rugby establishment and allowing compensation payments to injured players. Rugby league was born, sort of. It wasn’t until 1906 that the rules of the games significantly diverged when the play-the-ball was introduced and teams were reduced to 13-a-side.​
Only 12 months later, New Zealand had formed a breakaway team and the ‘All Golds’ set off on a historic tour of Great Britain, playing against ‘Northern Union’ teams. Meanwhile, powerbrokers in Sydney established the NSW Rugby League in August 1907 and signed rugby union pin-up boy Dally Messenger along with many others to launch a competition in 1908. The All Golds played a series against NSW in August 1907 before heading to Europe (using rugby union rules as the league rules had not yet been obtained by the locals). Dally Messenger proved such a drawcard that he was invited on the All Golds tour.​
Rebels up in Brisbane were following a similar path, with the ‘Queensland Rugby Association’ being formed late in February 1908, just six months after their Sydney counterparts. It was considered too rushed to form a proper club competition in 1908. Instead, a series of representative fixtures and exhibition games were held. Three Queenslanders were selected in the first-ever Australian team, who played the All Golds in Sydney in May 1908 upon their return from Britain.​
The following week, 16 May 1908 saw a Queensland team play the All Golds at the Brisbane Exhibition Ground, losing 34 to 12. Three further games were played in Brisbane as part of the tour. The Queenslanders were no match for the battle-hardened Kiwis, to the point that Dally Messenger switched sides and played for Queensland for their second encounter, helping the home side to a 12-all draw. Finally, on 30 May Brisbane hosted its first Test match, with New Zealand emerging victorious 24 to 12 in front of 6000 spectators.​
A New Zealand Maori representative team toured South East Queensland through June, playing five matches. Then, in July 1908 we saw the very first interstate clashes between Queensland and NSW. It was not an auspicious beginning. The Queenslanders, still learning the rules and with no week-to-week competition, were no match for the New South Welshmen. NSW won the first two encounters in Sydney by a whopping combined 80 to 8 and a third encounter, featuring 12 out of 13 new selections for NSW, was a victory to the southerners by a more respectable 12 to 3. Over 11,000 spectators attended the games.​
It would be another 14 years and a fair few one-sided matches before Queensland would win its first interstate match in 1922. From there, Queensland would win eight encounters in a row (and 17 from 24 over the next five years), showing how far the game had come in the north in a short time. Also, by 1923 the two interstate encounters drew a combined total of 57,000 spectators, showing just how quickly the game itself had grown.​
Why did it take some decades for Queensland to catch up to NSW in interstate matches, despite the games themselves starting within months of each other? The answer lies in 1909 when the NSWRL swooped on the 1908/09 Wallabies and signed fourteen rebels to the new code.​
This had the simultaneous effect of boosting NSW Rugby League and crippling its union rivals, but since not one of the players signed was from Queensland, it also concentrated rugby league talent south of the border and set Queensland Rugby League up for a long, hard road to parity. It was not until the 1920s that Queensland Rugby League were able to facilitate defections of their own from a crippled Queensland Rugby Union that some sort of parity was achieved.​
But back in 1908 all that was still to come. The rules had been learnt and the appetite of spectators whetted. The stage was set for the 1909 inaugural Brisbane Rugby League season.​
The following week, 16 May 1908 saw a Queensland team play the All Golds at the Brisbane Exhibition Ground, losing 34 to 12. Three further games were played in Brisbane as part of the tour. The Queenslanders were no match for the battle-hardened Kiwis, to the point that Dally Messenger switched sides and played for Queensland for their second encounter, helping the home side to a 12-all draw. Finally, on 30 May Brisbane hosted its first Test match, with New Zealand emerging victorious 24 to 12 in front of 6000 spectators.​
A New Zealand Maori representative team toured South East Queensland through June, playing five matches. Then, in July 1908 we saw the very first interstate clashes between Queensland and NSW. It was not an auspicious beginning. The Queenslanders, still learning the rules and with no week-to-week competition, were no match for the New South Welshmen. NSW won the first two encounters in Sydney by a whopping combined 80 to 8 and a third encounter, featuring 12 out of 13 new selections for NSW, was a victory to the southerners by a more respectable 12 to 3. Over 11,000 spectators attended the games.​
It would be another 14 years and a fair few one-sided matches before Queensland would win its first interstate match in 1922. From there, Queensland would win eight encounters in a row (and 17 from 24 over the next five years), showing how far the game had come in the north in a short time. Also, by 1923 the two interstate encounters drew a combined total of 57,000 spectators, showing just how quickly the game itself had grown.​
Why did it take some decades for Queensland to catch up to NSW in interstate matches, despite the games themselves starting within months of each other? The answer lies in 1909 when the NSWRL swooped on the 1908/09 Wallabies and signed fourteen rebels to the new code.​
This had the simultaneous effect of boosting NSW Rugby League and crippling its union rivals, but since not one of the players signed was from Queensland, it also concentrated rugby league talent south of the border and set Queensland Rugby League up for a long, hard road to parity. It was not until the 1920s that Queensland Rugby League were able to facilitate defections of their own from a crippled Queensland Rugby Union that some sort of parity was achieved.​
But back in 1908 all that was still to come. The rules had been learnt and the appetite of spectators whetted. The stage was set for the 1909 inaugural Brisbane Rugby League season.​
Four teams lined up in May 1909 for the first Brisbane Rugby League season – Fortitude Valley (inner city), South Brisbane and North Brisbane were all splits from existing rugby union clubs and they were joined by Toombul, the unofficial 1908 ‘Premiers’.​
The competition was run by the Queensland Rugby League (first called the Queensland Rugby Association, then the Queensland Amateur Rugby League) with no separate Brisbane administrative body. Games were played at the Brisbane Cricket Ground (i.e. The Gabba, now the home of AFL’s Brisbane Lions). Players were paid for out of pocket expenses only.​

NSWRL signed 14 players from the Wallabies in 1908. Queensland's rugby union players remained loyal to the QRU. This gave the NSWRL a huge advantage as they had established Wallabies playing in their competiton, whereas the BRL had to start from scratch against a full strength QRU. It wasn't until
You missed the point entirely.
You're a bitter twisted man looking for any opportunity to have a crack at Sydney clubs.
Sydney was bigger, had better clubs, had more money and signed the best talent.
That comp ran for a hundred years!
It took a hundred years to build what we have today!
Not a tour or a player...
It's a waste of time , you simply don't get it.
 

flippikat

First Grade
Messages
5,215
Sydney was bigger, had better clubs, had more money and signed the best talent.
Yep, but what entrenched that power?

What exacerbated that imbalance between rich, resourceful Sydney & the plundered player and coaching stocks of Queensland & New Zealand?

Leagues clubs, and the flow of pokies money that enabled them to poach talent.

You could argue that without pokies the sheer size of the Sydney market (and the commercial sector) would have meant sponsorship providing plenty of money to do this.. BUT the direct revenue stream of gambling amplified any "economies of scale" that may have already existed to insane levels.
 

Gobsmacked

Bench
Messages
3,122
Yep, but what entrenched that power?

What exacerbated that imbalance between rich, resourceful Sydney & the plundered player and coaching stocks of Queensland & New Zealand?

Leagues clubs, and the flow of pokies money that enabled them to poach talent.

You could argue that without pokies the sheer size of the Sydney market (and the commercial sector) would have meant sponsorship providing plenty of money to do this.. BUT the direct revenue stream of gambling amplified any "economies of scale" that may have already existed to insane levels.
The Sydney comp was by far the most dominant well before pokies were invented. And whatever the most dominant comp is gets the best players, the best players that everyone wants to see play .

The point is that that comp in Sydney got us to where we are today .
For that I'm grateful. Those Sydney clubs are the historical foundation of the best Rugby league comp in the world.
Some peanuts aren't only ungrateful but they want to cull these teams. Senseless.
 

MugaB

Coach
Messages
15,020
No relegation?

Pull another one mate.

The BRL was relegated to second-tier status in 1988. Don't take my word for it. Here's what BRL commentator David Wright said in the lead up to the 1987 BRL grand final between Pastoral Brothers Leprechauns and Redcliffe Dolphins:

"With the introduction of a Brisbane team into the Sydney competition next year, we won't really see the competition in its current format ever again."​

At the end of the 1987 season the BRL lost 60 players to the NSWRL:

The changing face of the Brisbane Rugby League premiership was illustrated by the make-up of a 27 man squad chosen to prepare for the National Panasonic Cup (knock-out) competition trial match against Toowoomba.​
Ian Stains, James Sandy and Bob Keogh were the only survivors from the Brisbane team beaten 14-2 by Penrith in the first round of the 1987 competition.​
The reason for the new look, was the fact 60 or more players from the BRL had been lost to the New South Wales Rugby League, which now boasted three new clubs – Brisbane Broncos, Gold Coast Giants and Newcastle Knights.​
Ross Strudwick, who had coached Brothers to the 1987 BRL title, was appointed Brisbane representative coach, with his die drawn to play Port Moresby in the first round​
Brisbane had fielded a side in the ‘Super Sevens’ in Sydney, but had been eliminated in the preliminary rounds. Players who contested the Sevens, but failed to make the Panasonic Cup squad, were Guy Harvey (Norths) and Brent Daunt (Diehards).​
The three preliminary rounds of the 1988 Woolies pre-season rugby league competition ended with BRL newcomers, Logan City qualifying for the semi-finals, along with, Souths, Seagulls Diehards (formerly Valleys) and Redcliffe.​
Brisbane Panasonic Cup squad: Mick Anderson (Wests), Jeff Burns (Brothers), Steve Bleakley (Redcliffe), Peter Coyne (Diehards), Glenn Haggath (Ipswich), Bill Holmes (Diehards), Brett Johnstone (Ips), Tony Jones (Bros), Kieran Jackson (Norths), Tony Jemmott (Wynnum), Bob Keogh (Red), Terry Mulcahy (Logan), Mark McIntyre (Easts), Brett McCarthy (Bros), Lex Neal (Red), Brian Naylor (Wynnum), Vince O’Brien (Bros), Gavin Payne (Ips), Ken Robertson (Ips), Rob Raiteri (Wyn), Brad Samuelson (Wyn), Ian Stains (Easts), Darren Smith (Easts), James Sandy (Red), Chris White (Souths), Jason Wallace (Logan).​
Darren Smith would go on to carve out the most illustrious career, representing Australia 12 times (including five Super League Tests) and Queensland 22 times at State of Origin level.​
A number quality players missed out on that initial squad, among them Stephen Boys, Peter Shields, Scott Czislowski, Neil Wharton, Bob Hudson, Paul Bartier, Steve Davis, Ray Kelly, Steve Parcell, Wayne Cullen, Kelly Egan, Ziggy Strasser, Greg Walker, Steve Cherry, Troy Evans, Curtis Powell and Floyd Hill.​
So the depth in the BRL was still impressive.​

Sponsorship and media coverage of the BRL dried up and it ceased to exist in 1998.



You're the one always talking about "cones" and "weed".



Am I selfish for not wanting the BRL clubs to die?

Am I selfish for wanting the Logan Scorpions back?

You don't seem to give a f**k about the BRL clubs that were relegated to second-tier status after 1987, yet you get all sooky when some one says the NSWRL clubs should be dealt with the same callous indifference that the NSWRL had for the BRL. There was no welfare provided to the BRL clubs to keep them afloat, yet you want our game to waste $45m each year propping up unviable clubs from Sydney. The fans of the Sydney clubs and the chairman of the ARLC are quick to dismiss funding expansion teams in "rusted on AFL states", yet they're keen on spending $45m each year on nine small clubs from Sydney.

“Forget wasting millions in rusted-on AFL states. We must undertake a full analysis [of growth markets] but Perth does not have a huge league audience. Then there’s the concern around flying NRL players five hours when we already hear criticism of player workloads and how taxing the season is on the stars of the game.” Peter V'landys on expansion in Western Australia​

Do you really care about the Sydney clubs, or are you just sucking up to the NSWRL fans?

I recall you calling the Scorpions a "plastic" club, whatever that means. It must piss you off that they made the Woolies Pre-season grand final in 1988.
FMD logan scorpions lasted for literally 14 years before magpies took over the area, and you're droning on as if theyd been around for 5 decades, like every club in the NRL you want to cull, then you pile shit on the norths bears fans here who want their brand back, as if they don't count..... what a fkn hypocrite
 

Pneuma

First Grade
Messages
5,475
The game wasn't "built" in Sydney. It was exported to Sydney and Brisbane in 1908 by New Zealanders who learnt about the sport while touring England in 1907. The sport was invented by the English in 1906.

Here's an excerpt from a great article on The Roar about the origins of rugby league in Brisbane and Sydney:

Beginnings – 1907 to 1908
The history of rugby league in Queensland began mere months after the first steps taken down south, but Brisbane had already seen games of various codes of football for decades. For example, the first recorded official game of ‘Victorian rules’ played in Brisbane occurred in 1866 and this code was the premier game in South East Queensland until the late 1880s, being the game of choice in the grammar schools.​
However, the sport of rugby union was gaining popularity, particularly since it provided opportunities for spirited representative fixtures against NSW. The first of these was played at the Sydney Cricket Ground in 1882 and the following year saw Queensland defeat NSW in Brisbane, significantly adding to the game’s popularity. In 1887 the grammar schools in South East Queensland voted to defect from Victorian rules to rugby union, cementing its place as the state’s premier code.​
Less than a decade later the seeds for change were planted in the north of England when in 1895 a Northern Union was formed, splitting from the rugby establishment and allowing compensation payments to injured players. Rugby league was born, sort of. It wasn’t until 1906 that the rules of the games significantly diverged when the play-the-ball was introduced and teams were reduced to 13-a-side.​
Only 12 months later, New Zealand had formed a breakaway team and the ‘All Golds’ set off on a historic tour of Great Britain, playing against ‘Northern Union’ teams. Meanwhile, powerbrokers in Sydney established the NSW Rugby League in August 1907 and signed rugby union pin-up boy Dally Messenger along with many others to launch a competition in 1908. The All Golds played a series against NSW in August 1907 before heading to Europe (using rugby union rules as the league rules had not yet been obtained by the locals). Dally Messenger proved such a drawcard that he was invited on the All Golds tour.​
Rebels up in Brisbane were following a similar path, with the ‘Queensland Rugby Association’ being formed late in February 1908, just six months after their Sydney counterparts. It was considered too rushed to form a proper club competition in 1908. Instead, a series of representative fixtures and exhibition games were held. Three Queenslanders were selected in the first-ever Australian team, who played the All Golds in Sydney in May 1908 upon their return from Britain.​
The following week, 16 May 1908 saw a Queensland team play the All Golds at the Brisbane Exhibition Ground, losing 34 to 12. Three further games were played in Brisbane as part of the tour. The Queenslanders were no match for the battle-hardened Kiwis, to the point that Dally Messenger switched sides and played for Queensland for their second encounter, helping the home side to a 12-all draw. Finally, on 30 May Brisbane hosted its first Test match, with New Zealand emerging victorious 24 to 12 in front of 6000 spectators.​
A New Zealand Maori representative team toured South East Queensland through June, playing five matches. Then, in July 1908 we saw the very first interstate clashes between Queensland and NSW. It was not an auspicious beginning. The Queenslanders, still learning the rules and with no week-to-week competition, were no match for the New South Welshmen. NSW won the first two encounters in Sydney by a whopping combined 80 to 8 and a third encounter, featuring 12 out of 13 new selections for NSW, was a victory to the southerners by a more respectable 12 to 3. Over 11,000 spectators attended the games.​
It would be another 14 years and a fair few one-sided matches before Queensland would win its first interstate match in 1922. From there, Queensland would win eight encounters in a row (and 17 from 24 over the next five years), showing how far the game had come in the north in a short time. Also, by 1923 the two interstate encounters drew a combined total of 57,000 spectators, showing just how quickly the game itself had grown.​
Why did it take some decades for Queensland to catch up to NSW in interstate matches, despite the games themselves starting within months of each other? The answer lies in 1909 when the NSWRL swooped on the 1908/09 Wallabies and signed fourteen rebels to the new code.​
This had the simultaneous effect of boosting NSW Rugby League and crippling its union rivals, but since not one of the players signed was from Queensland, it also concentrated rugby league talent south of the border and set Queensland Rugby League up for a long, hard road to parity. It was not until the 1920s that Queensland Rugby League were able to facilitate defections of their own from a crippled Queensland Rugby Union that some sort of parity was achieved.​
But back in 1908 all that was still to come. The rules had been learnt and the appetite of spectators whetted. The stage was set for the 1909 inaugural Brisbane Rugby League season.​
The following week, 16 May 1908 saw a Queensland team play the All Golds at the Brisbane Exhibition Ground, losing 34 to 12. Three further games were played in Brisbane as part of the tour. The Queenslanders were no match for the battle-hardened Kiwis, to the point that Dally Messenger switched sides and played for Queensland for their second encounter, helping the home side to a 12-all draw. Finally, on 30 May Brisbane hosted its first Test match, with New Zealand emerging victorious 24 to 12 in front of 6000 spectators.​
A New Zealand Maori representative team toured South East Queensland through June, playing five matches. Then, in July 1908 we saw the very first interstate clashes between Queensland and NSW. It was not an auspicious beginning. The Queenslanders, still learning the rules and with no week-to-week competition, were no match for the New South Welshmen. NSW won the first two encounters in Sydney by a whopping combined 80 to 8 and a third encounter, featuring 12 out of 13 new selections for NSW, was a victory to the southerners by a more respectable 12 to 3. Over 11,000 spectators attended the games.​
It would be another 14 years and a fair few one-sided matches before Queensland would win its first interstate match in 1922. From there, Queensland would win eight encounters in a row (and 17 from 24 over the next five years), showing how far the game had come in the north in a short time. Also, by 1923 the two interstate encounters drew a combined total of 57,000 spectators, showing just how quickly the game itself had grown.​
Why did it take some decades for Queensland to catch up to NSW in interstate matches, despite the games themselves starting within months of each other? The answer lies in 1909 when the NSWRL swooped on the 1908/09 Wallabies and signed fourteen rebels to the new code.​
This had the simultaneous effect of boosting NSW Rugby League and crippling its union rivals, but since not one of the players signed was from Queensland, it also concentrated rugby league talent south of the border and set Queensland Rugby League up for a long, hard road to parity. It was not until the 1920s that Queensland Rugby League were able to facilitate defections of their own from a crippled Queensland Rugby Union that some sort of parity was achieved.​
But back in 1908 all that was still to come. The rules had been learnt and the appetite of spectators whetted. The stage was set for the 1909 inaugural Brisbane Rugby League season.​
Four teams lined up in May 1909 for the first Brisbane Rugby League season – Fortitude Valley (inner city), South Brisbane and North Brisbane were all splits from existing rugby union clubs and they were joined by Toombul, the unofficial 1908 ‘Premiers’.​
The competition was run by the Queensland Rugby League (first called the Queensland Rugby Association, then the Queensland Amateur Rugby League) with no separate Brisbane administrative body. Games were played at the Brisbane Cricket Ground (i.e. The Gabba, now the home of AFL’s Brisbane Lions). Players were paid for out of pocket expenses only.​

NSWRL signed 14 players from the Wallabies in 1908. Queensland's rugby union players remained loyal to the QRU. This gave the NSWRL a huge advantage as they had established Wallabies playing in their competiton, whereas the BRL had to start from scratch against a full strength QRU. It wasn't until rugby union competitions in Queensland were suspended due to WWII that the balance of power shifted to Queensland, as the QRU's players switched over to the BRL. It's an example of NSWRL reigning supreme when they have all the advantages, but crumbling like a stack of cards when forced to play by the same rules.

You've now exposed yourself as a moron who doesn't know shit about rugby league in New Zealand, Queensland, England or even NSW!
Potato
 

Pneuma

First Grade
Messages
5,475
FMD logan scorpions lasted for literally 14 years before magpies took over the area, and you're droning on as if theyd been around for 5 decades, like every club in the NRL you want to cull, then you pile shit on the norths bears fans here who want their brand back, as if they don't count..... what a fkn hypocrite
Responding logically to a lunatic is pointless. The fact he and the whinging pom are best mates says it all.
 
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14,822
Yep, but what entrenched that power?

What exacerbated that imbalance between rich, resourceful Sydney & the plundered player and coaching stocks of Queensland & New Zealand?

Leagues clubs, and the flow of pokies money that enabled them to poach talent.

You could argue that without pokies the sheer size of the Sydney market (and the commercial sector) would have meant sponsorship providing plenty of money to do this.. BUT the direct revenue stream of gambling amplified any "economies of scale" that may have already existed to insane levels.
The irony is despite Sydney being twice as large as Brisbane, the Broncos generate two to three times more revenue than the Sydney clubs. Even the Cowboys generate more revenue than the Sydney clubs and they're from a regional city that has just 180k people. It proves that the Sydney clubs don't belong in a national competition. They had their time when they were relevant and important in the NSWRL, but they're now in the NRL and have become outdated and are holding the game back.
 

flippikat

First Grade
Messages
5,215
The Sydney comp was by far the most dominant well before pokies were invented. And whatever the most dominant comp is gets the best players, the best players that everyone wants to see play .

The point is that that comp in Sydney got us to where we are today .
For that I'm grateful. Those Sydney clubs are the historical foundation of the best Rugby league comp in the world.
Some peanuts aren't only ungrateful but they want to cull these teams. Senseless.
Yeah, but the advent of pokies ENTRENCHED that dominance - at a time when the growth of Brisbane was outpacing the growth of Sydney (1960s-1980s) and Brisbane went from a quarter of Sydney's population to just half.

It wasn't a level playing field (revenue-wise) at a time when Brisbane could have made some headway IF all things were equal.

You had the perverse situation of a high population growth city struggling to make headway.
 

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