NRL's growth mindset points to 18th team. And it ain't Perth.

[flippikat]

The bye being removed from a draw is a huge benefit to the game, A couple of extra years of uninterupted junior leagues will help the lack of player issue too

Both really pertinent points.

We've had the lower levels of the game basically kneecapped for 2-3 years - of course that's going to flow through to a weakened first grade- especially in terms of depth.. but with that coming back, so will the player depth.

And as far as having an odd number of teams (and at least one bye every week), *no one* likes that - and it's horribly inefficient. History shows that state of the competition never lasts long, so 17 teams in about 5 years (give or take) just makes sense.

 

[Colk]

Nrl clubs do it

bears will be in nrl soon anyway

I don’t think the jets have much value these days

Firstly, that’s definitely not true, particularly not in Queensland.

Secondly what happens if they are not put in the competition. Some consortium could come up with a massive financial offer and it’s bye bye Bears. Then would your views change? Also I don’t think the Bears offer a great deal more than the most popular QRL clubs. North Sydney Bears wouldn’t mean anything to Queenslanders for example.

 

[flippikat]

Exactly, that’s enough for two teams.

Why create a third?

The QLD Cup is fine. It does what it is meant to do: it gives players outside the system a chance to grab a contract because they are playing against fringe first graders - there is already a few in the Dolphins squad for example as well as in other squads, keeps the identity and history of the clubs in Queensland intact, as well as giving every area a chance to watch a quality competition and provide a link to the NRL.

If you wanted to compare the two competitions, it is clear to me that the NSW Cup is the more ineffectual competition. The NSW Cup has no representation outside of Sydney for example (other than Canberra and Newcastle second grade sides) thus no real link to rural or regional NSW.

If you wanted to put forth a second grade competition why would you use the NSW Cup as a model instead of the QLD Cup?

If you get NSW Cup teams around NSW as well as some heritage Sydney clubs (something akin to Qld Cup's spread), it opens the door to some cool inter-league match-ups too - if they wanna run some inter-league rounds.

 

[Canard]

Nrl clubs do it

bears will be in nrl soon anyway

I don’t think the jets have much value these days

They don't run any juniors below the u16 age group in QLD, can't speak for NSW.

But I'd be highly surprised if a NRL club runs the Dubbo comp and its juniors system for example.

Doing away with the two state bodies in the only regions in the world where Rugby League is the No1 sport, would be peak NRL.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Firstly, that’s definitely not true, particularly not in Queensland.

Secondly what happens if they are not put in the competition. Some consortium could come up with a massive financial offer and it’s bye bye Bears. Then would your views change? Also I don’t think the Bears offer a great deal more than the most popular QRL clubs. North Sydney Bears wouldn’t mean anything to Queenslanders for example.

I cannot see what you're responding to as I've got @Wb1234 on ignore, but I assume he's talking up North Sydney as being more important than the Queensland Cup clubs?

The Burleigh Bears mean more to Queenslanders than the North Sydney Bears.

I'm old enough to have followed the Queensland Cup when it replaced the Winfield State League in 1996. It went from having a decent profile on the ABC each Saturday afternoon and providing RL fans in Brisbane with an alternative to the Broncos, to being pushed into irrelevancy by the ARLC after it was shifted to Ch9 in 2012. We lost veteran commentators enshrined in BRL folklore like Warren Boland and David Wright, both of whom are my all-time favourite callers, when the game went to Ch9. The competition was given great coverage in 2012 on Ch9 with Andrew Voss, Scott Sattler and Ben Ikin calling games, to eventually having matches start at 1pm and 12pm to fit into the NRL schedule and called by nobodies. Now it's on 9Now, Kayo and a subscription service that isn't available on most platforms. There has been a concerted effort by the Sydney-centric ARLC to devalue the Queensland Cup since the commission began in 2012. We're now where we are and it makes it hard for me to follow the game with the passion that I had a decade ago. If V'landys goes through with this stupid proposal then I'll probably give up the game for good and make basketball my main sport. The NBL has teams in every capital city and key regional cities, with a strong second-tier underneath called the NBL1. Our game should be looking to emulate that.

 

[Colk]

If you get NSW Cup teams around NSW as well as some heritage Sydney clubs (something akin to Qld Cup's spread), it opens the door to some cool inter-league match-ups too - if they wanna run some inter-league rounds.

Of course it does.

It would also help places for example like Coffs (Northern NSW), Albury (Riverina) and Maitland/Upper Hunter (Hunter) which are booming areas but will obviously never be big enough to have an NRL side. It helps forge a connection between these areas and the premier competition by giving opportunities to players from Group competitions (particularly if they can see a pathway) and helps people remain in those areas rather than having to move to Sydney for an opportunity (there are plenty of cases of country kids giving up on their dreams too early and going back to the bush because they can’t handle city life)

 

[Iamback]

Both really pertinent points.

We've had the lower levels of the game basically kneecapped for 2-3 years - of course that's going to flow through to a weakened first grade- especially in terms of depth.. but with that coming back, so will the player depth.

And as far as having an odd number of teams (and at least one bye every week), *no one* likes that - and it's horribly inefficient. History shows that state of the competition never lasts long, so 17 teams in about 5 years (give or take) just makes sense.

Here is the big problem with odd amount of teams, Someone plays a refreshed team every week.
The team with a bye in Round 27 will love a freshen up before the finals.

There is simply no way to make that side of it fair.

 

[siv]

Exactly, that’s enough for two teams.

Why create a third?

The QLD Cup is fine. It does what it is meant to do: it gives players outside the system a chance to grab a contract because they are playing against fringe first graders - there is already a few in the Dolphins squad for example as well as in other squads, keeps the identity and history of the clubs in Queensland intact, as well as giving every area a chance to watch a quality competition and provide a link to the NRL.

If you wanted to compare the two competitions, it is clear to me that the NSW Cup is the more ineffectual competition. The NSW Cup has no representation outside of Sydney for example (other than Canberra and Newcastle second grade sides) thus no real link to rural or regional NSW.

If you wanted to put forth a second grade competition why would you use the NSW Cup as a model instead of the QLD Cup?

You need to divorce professional playing from part-time playing group

What I am saying is what exists fundamentally in NSW evolves into National RG. We already have direct NRL alignment today. Add the Warriors in 2023, thats around 75% of the NRL

Whats left in NSW evolves into a new NSW Cup for the part-time playing group. It would be a evolution of the RM Cup too. You will find most of those original A-grade clubs actually also play in the RM Cup. Like you just add regional NSW division teams

You could still have a State Championship on NRL GF day too

With the Bears about to become the 18th NRL club that argument disappears

 

[Colk]

I cannot see what you're responding to as I've got @Wb1234 on ignore, but I assume he's talking up North Sydney as being more important than the Queensland Cup clubs?

The Burleigh Bears mean more to Queenslanders than the North Sydney Bears.

I'm old enough to have followed the Queensland Cup when it replaced the Winfield State League in 1996. It went from having a decent profile on the ABC each Saturday afternoon and providing RL fans in Brisbane with an alternative to the Broncos, to being pushed into irrelevancy by the ARLC after it was shifted to Ch9 in 2012. We lost veteran commentators enshrined in BRL folklore like Warren Boland and David Wright, both of whom are my all-time favourite callers, when the game went to Ch9. The competition was given great coverage in 2012 on Ch9 with Andrew Voss, Scott Sattler and Ben Ikin calling games, to eventually having matches start at 1pm and 12pm to fit into the NRL schedule and called by nobodies. Now it's on 9Now, Kayo and a subscription service that isn't available on most platforms. There has been a concerted effort by the Sydney-centric ARLC to devalue the Queensland Cup since the commission began in 2012. We're now where we are and it makes it hard for me to follow the game with the passion that I had a decade ago. If V'landys goes through with this stupid proposal then I'll probably give up the game for good and make basketball my main sport. The NBL has teams in every capital city and key regional cities, with a strong second-tier underneath called the NBL1. Our game should be looking to emulate that.

I was.

My main gripe with the NSW Cup is that it is so Sydney centric. Here in NSW, there are so many areas that are absolutely booming in terms of population that would benefit having a link with the premier competition.. If there was a competition like yours here, it would easily work a lot better.

If you wanted a national reserve grade competition the whole point should be to expand the competition to include areas that are booming in population but will never be big enough to have teams in the NRL. Follow the Minor League model in MLB or the QLD Cup model.

 

[Colk]

You need to divorce professional playing from part-time playing group

What I am saying is what exists fundamentally in NSW evolves into National RG. We already have direct NRL alignment today. Add the Warriors in 2023, thats around 75% of the NRL

Whats left in NSW evolves into a new NSW Cup for the part-time playing group. It would be a evolution of the RM Cup too. You will find most of those original A-grade clubs actually also play in the RM Cup. Like you just add regional NSW division teams

You could still have a State Championship on NRL GF day too

With the Bears about to become the 18th NRL club that argument disappears

Totally disagree.

If what you held was true and the NSW Cup model was better than it would be more popular than the QRL Cup which it isn’t. The state would also be developing better players than Queensland which hasn’t been the case generally either.

You’re also arguing two different things. I’m not arguing against NRL alignment, I’m just arguing that it doesn’t have to be under the same banner as the NRL teams. It shouldn’t because you’re cutting off all links to rural and regional areas by following a pedestrian NSW Cup model.

Thirdly, the Bears being back in the competition has no bearing on the argument at all.

 

[siv]

The state would also be developing better players than Queensland which hasn’t been the case generally either.

You dont have too look far

The State Championship even after 2 covid years was once again a loop sided affair

You see the same effect at NRL in post NYC generation years

SOO is not relevant as the professional athlette process is about developing NRL quality teams

 

[siv]

I’m just arguing that it doesn’t have to be under the same banner as the NRL teams.

I find this comment strange

As NSW Country is doing everything to re-align to NRL monikers

Today
- NSW Northern Rivers - Titans
- NSW North Coast - Bulldogs
- Picton area - Wests-Tigers
- CC Roosters

Even South Coast are using the Dragons term

Greater Northern(New England) have Bulldogs feeder style logos on their jerseys

In Victoria clubs all carry Storm logos on their jerseys

But all of those areas are loosing identity

I dont think situations like Maitland Pumkin pickers or Queanbeyan blues or Wyong Roos stepping up will ever work

 

[Iamback]

If you get NSW Cup teams around NSW as well as some heritage Sydney clubs (something akin to Qld Cup's spread), it opens the door to some cool inter-league match-ups too - if they wanna run some inter-league rounds.

If QLD RL ever get behind the National Reserve Grade comp, Leaves those options open but those sides would struggle v the back up NRL sides

 

[Canard]

You dont have too look far

The State Championship even after 2 covid years was once again a loop sided affair

You see the same effect at NRL in post NYC generation years

SOO is not relevant as the professional athlette process is about developing NRL quality teams

The State Championship isn't a gauge of overall talent and player development.

 

[Colk]

I find this comment strange

As NSW Country is doing everything to re-align to NRL monikers

Today
- NSW Northern Rivers - Titans
- NSW North Coast - Bulldogs
- Picton area - Wests-Tigers
- CC Roosters

Even South Coast are using the Dragons term

Greater Northern(New England) have Bulldogs feeder style logos on their jerseys

In Victoria clubs all carry Storm logos on their jerseys

But all of those areas are loosing identity

I dont think situations like Maitland Pumkin pickers or Queanbeyan blues or Wyong Roos stepping up will ever work

You are getting close to the argument that I am making.

I am suggesting that instead of having just Sydney sides in NSW Cup you would have them represent New England, Riverina etc and have them aligned to the NRL sides much like what the Minor Leagues do in America. Spread the professionalism around and expand the game rather than limiting the potential of regions across Australia. It would have much better long term effects linking regions like this.

Seriously the argument to kill the QLD Cup (which you would be) or reducing the second grade to some bland uniformity just so a few extra hundred (if that) can watch an extra game makes sense.

If QLD RL ever get behind the National Reserve Grade comp, Leaves those options open but those sides would struggle v the back up NRL sides

Hopefully QLD aren’t going to get behind this retrograde idea (and all indications are they will meet resistance in any case) Why should they change their competition just because the chair of the ARLC has a brain fart. Also, Flippikat was replying to my comment which suggests NSW Cup teams would represent these areas rather than Sydney which they currently do (so for example instead of Canterbury Bulldogs their reserve grade would be the New England somethings etc)

 

[Colk]

The State Championship isn't a gauge of overall talent and player development.

True the number of Qld players without a link to an NRL side but have since gained a contract is quite substantial.

The fact is it gives players a chance to pick up an NRL contract without necessarily having to move to Brisbane. In NSW, you are forced to essentially move to Sydney to get an opportunity, which I think is the antithesis of what you would want to achieve

 

[siv]

I an concerned about developed high quality NRL ready talent

This needs National RG for fulltime prifessional NRL athlete

Running a popular partime league is also needed

It needs 2 answers

Qld Cup and a remodelled NSW Cup is the part time player league

Fans who turn up today to Qld Cup or Wenty, Newtown, Mounties games will be the same local community fans who walk home after those games today

NRL fans are not interested in seeing their player turn up in other team jerseys

 

[Colk]

I an concerned about developed high quality NRL ready talent

This needs National RG for fulltime prifessional NRL athlete

Running a popular partime league is also needed

It needs 2 answers

Qld Cup and a remodelled NSW Cup is the part time player league

Fans who turn up today to Qld Cup or Wenty, Newtown, Mounties games will be the same local community fans who walk home after those games today

NRL fans are not interested in seeing their player turn up in other team jerseys

So am I.

But you are limiting your development to Sydney and Brisbane with this model and to be frank the current NSW model doesn’t work.

 

[Wb1234]

They don't run any juniors below the u16 age group in QLD, can't speak for NSW.

But I'd be highly surprised if a NRL club runs the Dubbo comp and its juniors system for example.

Doing away with the two state bodies in the only regions in the world where Rugby League is the No1 sport, would be peak NRL.

When the commission was formed it was supposed to happen

they are doubling up on extra boards and overheads which the nrl could run

there’s nothing stopping the arlc just taking over their jobs

I don’t trust that a lot of money is being wasted by both bodies and decision making should be centralised and coordinated centrally

 

[Colk]

When the commission was formed it was supposed to happen

they are doubling up on extra boards and overheads which the nrl could run

there’s nothing stopping the arlc just taking over their jobs

I don’t trust that a lot of money is being wasted by both bodies and decision making should be centralised and coordinated centrally

Are you suggesting that development should be taken over by the ARLC or that a draft should happen?