NRL's growth mindset points to 18th team. And it ain't Perth.

[Wb1234]

Are you suggesting that development should be taken over by the ARLC or that a draft should happen?

Nah draft is bonkers

just saying no nswrl or qrl bodies

arlc runs everything and fund it as they see fit

get rid of the dinoasairs who are leeching off the game

 

[Bukowski]

Here is the big problem with odd amount of teams, Someone plays a refreshed team every week.
The team with a bye in Round 27 will love a freshen up before the finals.

There is simply no way to make that side of it fair.

Just give the tigers the bye in round 27. That's solves one problem

 

[Colk]

Nah draft is bonkers

just saying no nswrl or qrl bodies

arlc runs everything and fund it as they see fit

get rid of the dinoasairs who are leeching off the game

I agree with that (generally) but that’s a different problem altogether

 

[siv]

So am I.

But you are limiting your development to Sydney and Brisbane with this model and to be frank the current NSW model doesn’t work.

No

It follows the same expansion model you suggest for the very large part-time playing pool

NSW Country divisions and maybe Adelaide/Perth join revamped NSW Cup

I also would like to see Darwin join the Qld Cup

But all if this is running seperate from National RG which is for NRL fulltime professional contracted players 18-36

 

[Colk]

No

It follows the same expansion model you suggest for the very large part-time playing pool

NSW Country divisions and maybe Adelaide/Perth join revamped NSW Cup

I also would like to see Darwin join the Qld Cup

But all if this is running seperate from National RG which is for NRL fulltime professional contracted players 18-36

It is not feasible to have 36 man first grade squads particularly if we are expanding the competition - anyway that’s another argument.

I strongly disagree with you here. A reserve grade competition would severely damage the game, particularly in areas outside of Sydney. Anyway, I have a feeling that we could keep going around in circles so I’ll go back to watching the cricket.

 

[Perth Red]

Did

You would have to have two ten team conferences wouldn’t you? Why would you have a 8 team northern conference and a 12 team southern conference - that makes no sense.

This idea of making a competition below reserve grade is ridiculous in my opinion. Like I just don’t see where the interest is coming from.

Firstly there is the money involved (and yes I know you are going to make the point about TV deals but no I wouldn’t want it to be spent on a national third grade competition).

Secondly, the player pool which is linked in with the money. Because there is no money involved in this thing (even if the ARLC wanted to subsidise it because there would be very little revenue made) anybody with any ability, who is not picked up by a first grade squad (unless circumstances prevent them from doing so) is going to decide to play in England rather than stay here. In any case I’d prefer that to happen because the competition in England needs help more than we need a third grade competition.

Lastly, every second division competition you can think of has some sort of a link or interplay with the premier competition - either because they feed into the premier competition talent wise - like US minor leagues - or because there is a promotion and relegation system like soccer. Without either, particularly the former because the latter wouldn’t work in any case, I fail to see the point in it.

Didn’t say that, said there’d be 8 qrl clubs in it, other areas would make up the ten (png and fiji for example) southern conference would be made up of nsw clubs plus others like perth and nz Clubs.

there’s lots of good points to it,
apart from the cost of it, which wouldn’t be an issue if nrl wasnt sht at its negotiating job, the biggest issue is enough players for a reserve grade AND a genuine second division.

You say that but there is also few examples of the mess of a second division we currently have where we have pseudo reserve grade mixed with other clubs and not much sense in it all.

I’d see the two comps as attracting different players, reserve grade being maybe u21’s plus the non starting 30 man squad leaving any decent players not currently in a 30 man squad to play in second division and keep themselves in the shop window and earning enough to stay ft. maybe a $3mill cap for second division with a $4mill nrl grant.
You could change the nrl squad make up and cap to something like 10 U21’s and a 25 man first team squad?

 

[Perth Red]

Nrl premiership
current 17 clubs plus perth

nrl championship
northern conference
8 qrl clubs plus fiji and png
southern conference
8 nsw clubs plus 2 nz clubs

all run by the nrl! State leagues can concentrate on grassroots and participation like they should be doing.

we have to accept not every city can have an nrl premiership club and need to create something worthwhile below it for those cities and fans that will never get an nrl club.

 

[Iamback]

You are getting close to the argument that I am making.

I am suggesting that instead of having just Sydney sides in NSW Cup you would have them represent New England, Riverina etc and have them aligned to the NRL sides much like what the Minor Leagues do in America. Spread the professionalism around and expand the game rather than limiting the potential of regions across Australia. It would have much better long term effects linking regions like this.

Seriously the argument to kill the QLD Cup (which you would be) or reducing the second grade to some bland uniformity just so a few extra hundred (if that) can watch an extra game makes sense.



Hopefully QLD aren’t going to get behind this retrograde idea (and all indications are they will meet resistance in any case) Why should they change their competition just because the chair of the ARLC has a brain fart. Also, Flippikat was replying to my comment which suggests NSW Cup teams would represent these areas rather than Sydney which they currently do (so for example instead of Canterbury Bulldogs their reserve grade would be the New England somethings etc)

Who says their comp changes? All you have is no NRL contracted players.

Comp can still be spread all over as it is

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

NBL1 has a conference system.

NBL1 North (Queensland and NT)
NBL1 East (NSW and ACT)
NBL1 South (Victoria and Tasmania)
NBL1 Central (South Australia)
NBL1 West (Western Australia)

The champions of each conference play off to determine a national champion.

We could merge the Queensland and NSW Cups into NRL1 North and NRL1 South.

 

[Colk]

Did

Didn’t say that, said there’d be 8 qrl clubs in it, other areas would make up the ten (png and fiji for example) southern conference would be made up of nsw clubs plus others like perth and nz Clubs.

there’s lots of good points to it,
apart from the cost of it, which wouldn’t be an issue if nrl wasnt sht at its negotiating job, the biggest issue is enough players for a reserve grade AND a genuine second division.

You say that but there is also few examples of the mess of a second division we currently have where we have pseudo reserve grade mixed with other clubs and not much sense in it all.

I’d see the two comps as attracting different players, reserve grade being maybe u21’s plus the non starting 30 man squad leaving any decent players not currently in a 30 man squad to play in second division and keep themselves in the shop window and earning enough to stay ft. maybe a $3mill cap for second division with a $4mill nrl grant.
You could change the nrl squad make up and cap to something like 10 U21’s and a 25 man first team squad?

That’s the first problem. There aren’t enough players and probably never enough players for a country this size. We’re not America where you can have two minor leagues of a decent standard. A third grade competition would essentially be a glorified local league.

The second problem is the interest. Why would I or other people be interested in a competition which is essentially of a lesser standard than the QLD Cup and the NSW Cup currently is, particularly when you state in a previous post that there isn’t enough interest in those competitions.

The interest in a second grade or minor league comes from the potential to see people who have played first grade or the potential to play first grade. If there isn’t that potential or high potential of that happening, what is the lure

Regarding the way the second grade competitions are structured, I would concur to a degree (at least with the NSW Cup) however the solution you’re proposing is overcomplicating the question. Analogous to the six again, instead of creating something completely new, why don’t we just deal with the actual problem: reserve grade.

Just use the model of QLD Cup, which is a fine example of the model that you can use and just extend it out. Clubs have their own identity and represent seperate areas to the premier competition whilst being fed with a combination of players from the first grade squad (you could even cap it and say no more than five players from the first grade squad for example) and professional second tier players from that region. This does exactly what you want to do without creating another competition to do it.

 

[Colk]

Who says their comp changes? All you have is no NRL contracted players.

Comp can still be spread all over as it is

Yeah and how is anybody going to be interested in it? Is TV going to show matches from a third grade competition? Where is the money to now fund their competition going to come from?

You’re essentially making that competition an amateur competition in reality and it would die very quickly in its current format.

Also, for what particular purpose? The NSW model hasn’t been better in any way than the QLD model. They haven’t produced better talent tor example. The point is essentially you are making a competition totally redundant just so a few hundred people can watch reggies. It makes no sense.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

The Queensland Cup needs to be tinkered somewhat to make it more relevant. I think it's stupid having four teams from the City of Brisbane in it while Logan and Redland have none. Relocate Magpies to Logan and Seagulls to Redland. Have the Brisbane Tigers represent southern Brisbane and Norths become the Brisbane Devils, representing northern Brisbane. Dolphins to rebrand as Moreton Bay Dolphins. Bears rebrand as Gold Coast Bears and Tweed Heads go to the NSW Cup. That way every major LGA in SEQ is represented. Northern Pride should become the Cairns Cyclones. Toowoomba Clydesdales to return.

Brisbane Devils
Brisbane Tigers
Cairns Cyclones
Central Queensland Capras
Gold Coast Bears
Ipswich Jets
Logan Magpies
Mackay Cutters
New Caledonia
PNG Hunters
Redland Seagulls
Sunshine Coast Falcons
Townsville Blackhawks
Toowoomba Clydesdales

 

[Colk]

The Queensland Cup needs to be tinkered somewhat to make it more relevant. I think it's stupid having four teams from the City of Brisbane in it while Logan and Redland have none. Relocate Magpies to Logan and Seagulls to Redland. Have the Brisbane Tigers represent southern Brisbane and Norths become the Brisbane Devils, representing northern Brisbane. Dolphins to rebrand as Moreton Bay Dolphins. Bears rebrand as Gold Coast Bears and Tweed Heads go to the NSW Cup. That way every major LGA in SEQ is represented. Northern Pride should become the Cairns Cyclones. Toowoomba Clydesdales to return.

Brisbane Devils
Brisbane Tigers
Cairns Cyclones
Central Queensland Capras
Gold Coast Bears
Ipswich Jets
Logan Magpies
Mackay Cutters
New Caledonia
PNG Hunters
Redland Seagulls
Sunshine Coast Falcons
Townsville Blackhawks
Toowoomba Clydesdales

Mate, as an outsider (and you can tell me to f***off as a New South Welshman) but do you need a team from Townsville (seeing the Cowboys are in the NRL) as well having Mackay and a Central Queensland team representing the same kind of area.

Like the idea of New Caledonia. A second grade competition with 10-12 Queensland sides and 10-12 sides elsewhere would work depending on the size of the NRL competition.

 

[Perth Red]

That’s the first problem. There aren’t enough players and probably never enough players for a country this size. We’re not America where you can have two minor leagues of a decent standard. A third grade competition would essentially be a glorified local league.

The second problem is the interest. Why would I or other people be interested in a competition which is essentially of a lesser standard than the QLD Cup and the NSW Cup currently is, particularly when you state in a previous post that there isn’t enough interest in those competitions.

The interest in a second grade or minor league comes from the potential to see people who have played first grade or the potential to play first grade. If there isn’t that potential or high potential of that happening, what is the lure

Regarding the way the second grade competitions are structured, I would concur to a degree (at least with the NSW Cup) however the solution you’re proposing is overcomplicating the question. Analogous to the six again, instead of creating something completely new, why don’t we just deal with the actual problem: reserve grade.

Just use the model of QLD Cup, which is a fine example of the model that you can use and just extend it out. Clubs have their own identity and represent seperate areas to the premier competition whilst being fed with a combination of players from the first grade squad (you could even cap it and say no more than five players from the first grade squad for example) and professional second tier players from that region. This does exactly what you want to do without creating another competition to do it.

Well players wise I disagree, with all,the nations playing RL there’d be enough talent

why support it? same reason people support qrl cup now but it’d be a legit Comp and for areas with no hope of an nrl team it would be the top tier of rl they’ll get to support. When WA Reds where in third tier we got 1500-2000 fans at hbf park. Why do 65k people watch nrlw on fox?

Qrl cup,is a farce and results are largely determined by who has strongest nrl reserve grade link ups.

 

[Colk]

Well players wise I disagree, with all,the nations playing RL there’d be enough talent

why support it? same reason people support qrl cup now but it’d be a legit Comp and for areas with no hope of an nrl team it would be the top tier of rl they’ll get to support. When WA Reds where in third tier we got 1500-2000 fans at hbf park. Why do 65k people watch nrlw on fox?

Qrl cup,is a farce and results are largely determined by who has strongest nrl reserve grade link ups.

1. Are you referring to the Pacific Islands? Fine but you don’t need to construct a costly third grade competition to access that talent.

2. 1,500 people? I take back everything I’ve said then. We have never had a third tier under the model you are suggesting. It is completely different to a jersey flegg competition or even like the old third grade which was linked to one club so to suggest it is the same thing is disingenuous. For example watching the next potential Darren Lockyer or Brad Fittler or Andrew Johns as a 17 year old is somewhat interesting whereas watching a bunch of 25 year olds who will never ever play NRL isn’t.

Also, who is televising this and why would they televise this instead of say the reserve grade competition which is of a better standard?

3. I have already answered this question but again as I said there are ways to actually make the existing second division better rather then creating a costly and somewhat pointless third grade.

In conclusion, why wouldn’t you base this idea as a reserve grade/ minor league concept instead of making it a third grade which has no similarity to anything anywhere else in the world. Then it would have merit. For that to work, you would either simply strongly administer/limit how many fringe first graders can play for these teams (say a maximum of 5) or make it exactly like a minor league (a first grade squad of say 25) wherein anybody can be called up from the minor league by any club at any time. At least then players playing in this competition have a direct link to the premier competition.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Mate, as an outsider (and you can tell me to f***off as a New South Welshman) but do you need a team from Townsville (seeing the Cowboys are in the NRL) as well having Mackay and a Central Queensland team representing the same kind of area.

Like the idea of New Caledonia. A second grade competition with 10-12 Queensland sides and 10-12 sides elsewhere would work depending on the size of the NRL competition.

Townsville probably doesn't need a team. It's not going to get much support with the Cowboys representing the city.

New Caledonia is bidding for a licence. Their bid is backed by the FFR13.

If Townsville Blackhawks were removed then a Wide Bay team could be introduced.

 

[MugaB]

Townsville probably doesn't need a team. It's not going to get much support with the Cowboys representing the city.

New Caledonia is bidding for a licence. Their bid is backed by the FFR13.

If Townsville Blackhawks were removed then a Wide Bay team could be introduced.

Or Singapore can represent Logan city...
Dribble dribble dribble...
Dots on the map stuff again... its well thought out UNTIL he brings up, his local Logan/Redlands having no team... well no shit they have no team coz easts/souths/wynnum are all around it... its like when folks talk about campbelltown in sydney or central coast without any RL presence, the clubs exist already they aint getting relocated to suit your lazy dumb arse..
It's as transparent as PR suggesting this whole National Reserve grade comp, but then shoeing in Perth & Adelaide into it, who are just going to look like Scotland and Jamaica past two nights in the World cup .. instead of actual clubs who have been running teams for over 50 years and can compete with the Newtown jets, Wenty, Norths etc... yes yes yes but it has to start somewhere... correct build a club from perth or logan and climb the ladder enter harold mats SG ball, then slowly progress to cup level.. expecting the ARLC to handout a license to some area without a well run competitive club is delusional... again the whole point of dots on a map thinking

Anyways none of this reserve grade comp tinkering has anything to do with the 18th team btw.. its just become another platform to speak about aligning the stars to suit a narritive that we lack presence in certian areas....
Accept that the bears are coming unless, the NRL gets all political and the PM turns the ear of PVL for an inclusion and promotion of the hunters running out of cairns or brisbane

Best thing for the game is to make sure whoever is bidding has a wealth of juniors to tap into already, so that all clubs prosper when they become nrl ready.
NOT just money and potential for junior growth... that doesn't help us expand, it just means we are carrying a dead weight club, like AFL do with suns/gws

 

[Wb1234]

Or Singapore can represent Logan city...
Dribble dribble dribble...
Dots on the map stuff again... its well thought out UNTIL he brings up, his local Logan/Redlands having no team... well no shit they have no team coz easts/souths/wynnum are all around it... its like when folks talk about campbelltown in sydney or central coast without any RL presence, the clubs exist already they aint getting relocated to suit your lazy dumb arse..
It's as transparent as PR suggesting this whole National Reserve grade comp, but then shoeing in Perth & Adelaide into it, who are just going to look like Scotland and Jamaica past two nights in the World cup .. instead of actual clubs who have been running teams for over 50 years and can compete with the Newtown jets, Wenty, Norths etc... yes yes yes but it has to start somewhere... correct build a club from perth or logan and climb the ladder enter harold mats SG ball, then slowly progress to cup level.. expecting the ARLC to handout a license to some area without a well run competitive club is delusional... again the whole point of dots on a map thinking

Anyways none of this reserve grade comp tinkering has anything to do with the 18th team btw.. its just become another platform to speak about aligning the stars to suit a narritive that we lack presence in certian areas....
Accept that the bears are coming unless, the NRL gets all political and the PM turns the ear of PVL for an inclusion and promotion of the hunters running out of cairns or brisbane

Best thing for the game is to make sure whoever is bidding has a wealth of juniors to tap into already, so that all clubs prosper when they become nrl ready.
NOT just money and potential for junior growth... that doesn't help us expand, it just means we are carrying a dead weight club, like AFL do with suns/gws

The fact that the only way the golden child of this forum (Perth) gets a team is via a club many of them have derided for 20 years (bears) is delicious

I’m a bit gutted nz2 will miss out but will take pleasure Perth only got their team via a foundation nswrl club

 

[Canard]

Mate, as an outsider (and you can tell me to f***off as a New South Welshman) but do you need a team from Townsville (seeing the Cowboys are in the NRL) as well having Mackay and a Central Queensland team representing the same kind of area.

Like the idea of New Caledonia. A second grade competition with 10-12 Queensland sides and 10-12 sides elsewhere would work depending on the size of the NRL competition.

@Get Rid of The Donkeys knows f**k all about NQ and it's local comps if he is happy to write off regional teams.

@Colk Rockhampton is 750km away from Townsville, its like saying let's scrap Penrith because the Raiders are in the same region

 

[Canard]

The Queensland Cup needs to be tinkered somewhat to make it more relevant. I think it's stupid having four teams from the City of Brisbane in it while Logan and Redland have none. Relocate Magpies to Logan and Seagulls to Redland. Have the Brisbane Tigers represent southern Brisbane and Norths become the Brisbane Devils, representing northern Brisbane. Dolphins to rebrand as Moreton Bay Dolphins. Bears rebrand as Gold Coast Bears and Tweed Heads go to the NSW Cup. That way every major LGA in SEQ is represented. Northern Pride should become the Cairns Cyclones. Toowoomba Clydesdales to return.

Brisbane Devils
Brisbane Tigers
Cairns Cyclones
Central Queensland Capras
Gold Coast Bears
Ipswich Jets
Logan Magpies
Mackay Cutters
New Caledonia
PNG Hunters
Redland Seagulls
Sunshine Coast Falcons
Townsville Blackhawks
Toowoomba Clydesdales

Laughable bullshit, ruining all that history for some weird geographic autism.

What is your obsession with LGAs? Nobody follows a team based on there rates notice.