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Organised crime and drugs in sport investigation part II

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Lego_Man

First Grade
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5,071
Who's the toss who wrote the latest article on LU about Sharks "illegal activity" and talks about prison time etc?

Is he aware that the substances in question are in fact legal, but only prohibited for use in sportspeople by sports regulators? Nothing stopping Joe Sixpack from shooting up equine drugs if he wanted.

A basic fact check wouldnt go astray.
 

whall15

Coach
Messages
15,871
WTF would relocation prove? If the brand is f*cked in Cronulla, it will be f*cked everywhere. The brand is the problem, not the district it represents!

The relocation thing sounds like the shittest idea ever. Lets take a club that is broken down with huge PR issues and force them down the throats of another area.

That would be about as popular as c**k flavoured lollipops (or was they were know the Northern Eagles)

That's what I was thinking. Sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.
 

bottle

Coach
Messages
14,126
Please. Respect and credibility are not handed out by an organisation on the other side of the world.

kungl, WADA isn't 'an organisation on the other side of the world'.
They are a world wide body, of which we are a part (indeed the head of WADA is an Aussie, which I assume you know already) headquartered in Switzerland. So what, they have to have headquarters somewhere. It represents our interests as well, IF, our interests are to eliminate substance abuse in sport.

It's not some evil mob trying to destroy our game for their own ends (I know you haven't implied this, but I'm sure some think it so). Let's not get into paranoia about this.

You asked what would be lost. PR and myself both gave what I consider to be reasonable responses. You're right, respect and credibility are EARNED, not given. They are earned through actions, behaviours, attitudes. This would encapsulate a number of elements. As a sporting body I believe that attempting to eliminate substance abuse would be a prime factor in that. It takes a long time and a lot of effort to earn respect and credibility, but one misstep can quite easily damage that. Telling WADA to shove it would be quite a serious misstep in my opinion.

Respect and credibility are not earned by tearing an entire competition to pieces over an alleged dodgy trainer handing out maybe dodgy substances for a few weeks.
There's a lot more to come on this it seems, and it's likely to drag out over a long time. It's rash to pass judgement on this yet. If it proves to be as you say, then yes the reaction has been over the top. However I don't think that is the fault of the rule makers and investigators, it's a function of the reaction of the media and public commentary. That can't be avoided in a modern society with a free press. It's part of the price to be paid for having an open society.
The NRLs actions should not be dictated by WADA. Punishments should be handed out because they are fair, not because an organisation in Switzerland with no reason to have any influence here says so.
Again, the organisation represents our interests as well, and derives it's charter from the input of many including us. I don't see it as an outside evil influence.

If the NRL were to go it alone on this it would, if it still intended to address the substance issue, need to fund and resource the whole thing itself. Given that ASADA is struggling to meet the demand, and it is a government funded body, what sort of strain would that place on the NRL to do it effectively? As it is it struggles with managing a salary cap regime. It would be open slather on the drugs front. You are THEN looking at a scenario that could ruin the integrity of the sport.

I agree wholly that fairness in punishments should be the key, but on what basis are you suggesting that punishment isn't fair, given there hasn't been any seen yet? Bear in mind that most of what we are privy to is media hype only at this stage. The regulatory authorities HAVE NOT issued any punishments or findings to date. The only fallout so far has been at the behest of a club board, and that appears to have been poorly handled. Hardly the responsibilty of WADA or ASADA I would have thought.

We need to be careful to understand who's doing what to who, and not see it all as a big conglomerate of decision making.
 

Feej

First Grade
Messages
7,524
Not every NRL fan lives in the same city as their club and they still support them.
This is fine if you've moved away from the area or you just happen to become a fan living elsewhere, but your talking about moving a team from an area where it has been ensconced for 40 odd years.

Screw that. If they move the team, then myself and many others will be lost to the game.
 

The Tank

Bench
Messages
4,562
Just a question regarding WADA - I've read posts on here that state that if the NRL refused to abide by WADA's rules regarding suspending an entire club, we wouldn't be able to compete internationally.

But all the big American sports haven't adopted the WADA code (NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL, MLS) yet their athletes still compete internationally i.e. USA Dream Team (Basketball) and the American soccer team.

I'm not saying that we shouldn't abide by WADA, just interested in how the American sports do it.
 

whall15

Coach
Messages
15,871
i think thats what theyre doing with cullen. its the first move.

the fans have been led down the garden path IMO

That's the vibe I'm getting as well, unfortunately.

Just a question regarding WADA - I've read posts on here that state that if the NRL refused to abide by WADA's rules regarding suspending an entire club, we wouldn't be able to compete internationally.

But all the big American sports haven't adopted the WADA code (NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL, MLS) yet their athletes still compete internationally i.e. USA Dream Team (Basketball) and the American soccer team.

I'm not saying that we shouldn't abide by WADA, just interested in how the American sports do it.

Probably because they are America and they can do whatever they want.

Didn't know about the MLS, that's interesting.
 
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21,891
americans dont like to be told what to do by any agency. its part of the fabric of their culture.
plus, they major sports teams are privately run businesses and franchises.
 

whall15

Coach
Messages
15,871
Wiki says that the MLS don't abide by USADA and WADA but the national team do, that's probably how they get around it.
 

Danish

Referee
Messages
32,013
Just a question regarding WADA - I've read posts on here that state that if the NRL refused to abide by WADA's rules regarding suspending an entire club, we wouldn't be able to compete internationally.

But all the big American sports haven't adopted the WADA code (NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL, MLS) yet their athletes still compete internationally i.e. USA Dream Team (Basketball) and the American soccer team.

I'm not saying that we shouldn't abide by WADA, just interested in how the American sports do it.


I don't think any soccer league comes under WADA. FIFA runs its own drug policy (which many believe is pretty bloody lax).

Most other american sports don't have an international scene that any of them give a shit about, and the ones that do.... Well the IOC wouldn't dare kick the dreamtime out of the olympics given the money they bring in with ticket sales, and as for baseball, no MLB players go near it (the team is filled with college players). the NHL doesn't adhere to WADA either, but it does seem to be in conversation with them more than the other american codes.
 

Loudstrat

Coach
Messages
15,224
It doesnt matter what Americans say, do, or think.

The only way Cronulla will fold is through financial problems - losing one or multiple law suits, losing sponsors, or being made to forfeit through lack of players.

Regarding the latter - how does the Salary Cap work if 14 contracted players are suspended, and the club has to bring in an extra 14 juniors and pay them the minimum NRL fee? Also, plsyers are paid twice per year are they not? If they are suspended without pay - the timing of this payment is crucial. Suspended before the payment - they get paid for their pre-suspension games. Suspended after, and the club loses it's dough. Either way has a salary cap implication.
 

afinalsin666

First Grade
Messages
8,163
It doesnt matter what Americans say, do, or think.

The only way Cronulla will fold is through financial problems - losing one or multiple law suits, losing sponsors, or being made to forfeit through lack of players.

Regarding the latter - how does the Salary Cap work if 14 contracted players are suspended, and the club has to bring in an extra 14 juniors and pay them the minimum NRL fee? Also, plsyers are paid twice per year are they not? If they are suspended without pay - the timing of this payment is crucial. Suspended before the payment - they get paid for their pre-suspension games. Suspended after, and the club loses it's dough. Either way has a salary cap implication.

You would imagine the NRL would allow extra players outside the cap. Problem for the sharks is, afaik, they have hardly any money, paying players through the NRL club grant. Would the NRL grant more money to help with the paying of extra players? Or would the salaries come from the sharks own coffers? My money would be on the latter, and that's where it would get nasty.
 

happyG

Juniors
Messages
34
Just a question regarding WADA - I've read posts on here that state that if the NRL refused to abide by WADA's rules regarding suspending an entire club, we wouldn't be able to compete internationally.

you know what, big deal.

we own the game (in the sense that we destroy all other countries). Our 3rd string Australian side would still beat NZ/Poms.
 

El Diablo

Post Whore
Messages
94,107
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/asada-must-put-up-or-shut-up/story-e6freuy9-1226595557225

Lundy told: ASADA must 'put up or shut up'

By Simon Benson and Lanai Scarr
The Daily Telegraph
March 12, 2013 1:12PM

SPORTS Minister Kate Lundy came under fire this morning from Labor colleagues over her handling of the drugs in sports scandal, with one Sydney Labor MP accusing the anti-doping agency of abandoning proper legal process in its pursuit of NRL players.

South west Sydney MP Daryl Melham stood up in a caucus meeting this morning and singled out Senator Lundy, calling on her to get the Australian Sports Anti-Doping Authority (ASADA) to “put up or shut up”.

Mr Melham, a lawyer, said he was appalled at the handling of the drugs in sport scandal claiming he had seen nothing like it in his life.

Mr Melham raised concerns over due legal process with allegations being made against players without evidence being put to them.

He also criticised the offer of “discount” suspensions to players who self-incriminate, claiming they hadn’t even been told of the allegations against them.

Mr Melham would not comment publicly about the concerns he raised in caucus.

But colleagues said he had delivered an “almighty spray” against Ms Lundy, calling for the anti-doping agency to speed up its investigation and either charge people or drop it.

Mr Melham, the former chair of the caucus, said he had serious reservations about the investigation.

“Daryl took her down,” said one caucus colleague.

“He didn’t miss.”

A caucus spokesman said Prime Minister Julia Gillard and Senator Lundy were both asked questions about the NRL.

Ms Gillard left the caucus meeting early for other engagements but Senator Lundy was asked a number of subsequent questions about the NRL by three Labor MPs.

He said one person was particularly concerned about the length of the investigation. Others brought up the issue of all Cronulla Sharks players being tarnished by just a few who had done the wrong thing within the team.

However all questioners were coming from the same perspective, the spokesman said.

He said Senator Lundy told caucus that ASADA was an independent authority and thus needed to be left to its investigation.

Senator Lundy told the meeting ASADA “had all the resources they need at the moment”.

The fire-up in caucus came after the NRL demanded the Gillard government provide more resources for the drugs in sport investigation.

The Daily Telegraph revealed today that NRL CEO Dave Smith even offered financial and other support to help speed up ADSA’s investigation.

"ASADA has been given a huge task and it needs more resources to get it done as it only has a small unit for a very large task," Mr Smith said.

"They've got a bloody great big job and they need to make sure they are resourced to get it done.”

Cabinet Minister Craig Emerson this morning said Labor would consider extra resources for ASADA if needed.

“We are happy to have a conversation about more money for ASADA,” Dr Emerson said.
 

Bulldog Benny

Juniors
Messages
148
Just a thought, may have been mentioned before.

If one clubs allegedly doing it ( sharks), then wouldnt the majority of clubs be doing it?

Also if one codes doing it wouldnt others also ( afl, union, soccer, cricket )?

And if these codes are doing it, wouldnt other sports also ( swimming aust, aust athletics )?
 

Loudstrat

Coach
Messages
15,224
Get off your knob you fascist. Youd be happy to see the NRL awash with PEDs as long as no one found out.

Bulldog - thats why the ADASA investigation covers multiple sports.
 

Bulldog Benny

Juniors
Messages
148
Get off your knob you fascist. Youd be happy to see the NRL awash with PEDs as long as no one found out.

Bulldog - thats why the ADASA investigation covers multiple sports.

Then why is it that the sharks and our game are getting f**ked over at the moment. All the talk is about nrl clubs and a couple of afl clubs.
 
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