Origin 2013 NSW side

[southwalesrabbitoh]

Lewis is best on the fringes, the extra workload in defence when he plays lock doesn't suit him.

Shaun Fensom surely has to be a shoe in this year, we can't ignore him any longer can we?

But we also lose Gallen's attack when he plays in the middle. Whatever, it's not our back-row that's the problem as you know, who's gonna be the halfback? Pearce, Wallace, Campese, Maloney or Reynolds?

 

[Señor]

I don't think that'd be the worst selection decision we've ever made but I think it'd be the wrong one for a number of reasons.

1) No other prop has proven themselves at origin level, Tamou & Grant have shown some promise but have yet to put in constantly strong performances. I wouldn't move Gallen out of the prop rotation until at least one player who can play long minutes has stepped up

2) Gallen's performances at lock in origin left a lot to be desired, why it took a move to prop to finally see him transform his club form into origin form I don't know. One theory I've heard is that in the front row he's forced to take the extra hitups and does less ball playing.

I agree with you here, I wouldn't be moving Gallen out of the front row for exactly the reason you mentioned in (2). Even though he generally plays as a middle third forward regardless of the number on his back, playing at lock does encourage him to rove more and he inevitably ends up wider at times and the attack starts to look muddled. Playing at prop keeps him focused on hit ups and tackling, which is where he excels.

3) I'm not convinced our 5th best prop is any better than Fensom

4) Fensom would lessen the workload of Farah who whilst great in defence should be kept as fresh as possible in attack.

I think the only way you could support moving Gallen back to lock would be to bring Tolman into the team. Tolman's defence (both in technique and workrate) is superb, in fact he would play a very similar role as Fensom. Tolman would do be able to partially cover for Fensom if he was omitted from the team.

That said, I'd probably try to have Tolman and Fensom in the team anyway.

 

[firechild]

2) Gallen's performances at lock in origin left a lot to be desired, why it took a move to prop to finally see him transform his club form into origin form I don't know. One theory I've heard is that in the front row he's forced to take the extra hitups and does less ball playing.

I agree that Gallen has been far better as a prop than a lock but what options do we really have in the middle of the field? Watmough is far more damaging on the left side and hasn't performed overly well up the middle (which is where his criticism has come from as far as origin performances and even his form for Manly since T-Rex forced Watmough into the middle). Bird is the other option on the left while Lewis and Stewart are very good right edge players.

 

[Joker's Wild]

I wouldnt have both Tolman and Fensom in the same side, it would mean leaving out an attack oriented forward and I dont think NSW can afford that.

 

[Señor]

I wouldnt have both Tolman and Fensom in the same side, it would mean leaving out an attack oriented forward and I dont think NSW can afford that.

It's a fair point. I'd like to have both Tolman and Fensom but it would cost NSW elsewhere. It is a difficult position where Tolman and Fensom are both very deserving of spots but they are probably competing with each other.

NSW really need Tamou to start. In Game 1 he helped the forwards get on top of Queensland early and it set the tone for the next 20-30 minutes.

 

[LatK7]

1. Stewart (B)
2. Hayne
3. Jennings
4. Morris (J)
5. ?? Surely we have a better option than Brett Morris?
6. Maloney
7. Reynolds
8. Tamou
9. Farrah
10. Grant
11. Watmough
12. Stewart (G)
13. Gallen

14. Bird
15. Simms
16. Lewis
17. TLL

Assuming Morris' form is at least on par with 2012, surely he deserves another shot. Especially after his excellent performance in Game III.

 

[RWB]

Wade Graham > Fensom. But in saying that Sims > them both and I think you need all of Gallen(if he isn't pushed up), Bird, Stewart, Lewis and Watmough. Plus there is T-Rex if he is fit... A bench that could have T-Rex and Sims coming off it could be awesome.

Graham and Sims are both fringe players, their comparison to a player I suggested should play lock is largely irrelevant.

Regardless though, in no universe is Graham a greater player than Fensom. I rate him highly and was one of the first to even suggest him in the NSW thread but he's not a patch on Fensom and what he's already proven over a longer period of time in First Grade.

Dallas Johnson was exceptional for Queensland and he was only a one dimensional defensive player, Fensom has even more to his game but it's his defensive technique, efficiency and workrate would make him one of our best for the next 10 years if we're willing to give him a chance. Defensive locks thrive in origin, Nate Myles another example...

He's one of the first picked imo.

 

[timka4]

Agreed, Fensom is the lock that we need and really the best option we have, should be there for many years aswell assuming he stays fit/doesn't become shit

 

[Allstar Knights]

The Stewart bros should be dropped this year. They're great players, just not when it comes to Origin. I said it last year before Glenn was picked that he is an Origin myth and I still stand by that.

My team

1. Jarryd Hayne
2. Akuila Uate
3. Michael Jennings
4. Josh Morris
5. Michael Gordon
6. Todd Carney
7. Adam Reynolds
8. James Tamou
9. Robbie Farah
10. Paul Gallen
11. Luke Lewis
12. Greg Bird
13. Shaun Fensom

14. Wade Graham
15. Tony Williams
16. Tim Grant
17. Aaron Woods

 

[RWB]

I wouldnt have both Tolman and Fensom in the same side, it would mean leaving out an attack oriented forward and I dont think NSW can afford that.

Why would Tolman or Fensom take an attacking players position? They play in the middle third... we shouldn't be picking attacking players there to begin with. Tamou & Woods are both exceptional offloaders but that's about as far as I'd go in terms of looking for attacking ability.

 

[RWB]

Assuming Morris' form is at least on par with 2012, surely he deserves another shot. Especially after his excellent performance in Game III.

One good, overdue origin performance doesn't clean the slate.

Michael Gordon imo is the first winger picked, regardless of where he's playing at club level. I don't think anyone has strong claims to the other wing position at the moment.

 

[Hutty1986]

One good, overdue origin performance doesn't clean the slate.

Michael Gordon imo is the first winger picked, regardless of where he's playing at club level. I don't think anyone has strong claims to the other wing position at the moment.

It's going to be a welcome little selection dilemma. If Gordon, Uate, B. Moz & Hayne are all in form (and you'd probably pick Hayne on SOO form alone), then it will be interesting to see who they go with and whether someone may get slotted into the centres instead.

 

[Joker's Wild]

Why would Tolman or Fensom take an attacking players position? They play in the middle third... we shouldn't be picking attacking players there to begin with. Tamou & Woods are both exceptional offloaders but that's about as far as I'd go in terms of looking for attacking ability.

Assuming guys like Lewis, Gallen, Tamou and Grant are a given mate. Id not want to see Tolman in and a guy like Sims, Bird, Choc or T-Rex be left out. I honestly think we'd have the middle covered with just picking one, not both of them.

 

[Señor]

Why would Tolman or Fensom take an attacking players position? They play in the middle third... we shouldn't be picking attacking players there to begin with. Tamou & Woods are both exceptional offloaders but that's about as far as I'd go in terms of looking for attacking ability.

Tolman, Gallen and Fensom are workhorses while players like Woods, TLL and Tamou provide more impact. The impact that the latter players bring is still vital to a team (even though its value often gets overrated). A player like Tamou brings more in attacking ability than his offloading. He makes excellent metres per run and his ability to carry defenders and bend the line are valuable. If you start with a set up of Fensom, Tolman and Gallen you have three very hard-working players but you are lacking a player to force defenders back and get on a roll.

 

[Dragon2010]

Wingers are a tough choice. Agree though, Gordon should be one choice and likely Uate on the opposite. I think Hayne might play fr centre again personally.

 

[Joker's Wild]

Im not sure how Gordon gets a free ride here. Dont get me wrong, I think he is an excellent player and well up to SOO standard but the guy has been injured more often than not over the last 2-3 years and he has a lot to prove before the 2013 side is picked. If he cant show that he is back to his best I cant see how he should get a run over Hayne, Morris or even Uate pending form.

 

[Señor]

Im not sure how Gordon gets a free ride here. Dont get me wrong, I think he is an excellent player and well up to SOO standard but the guy has been injured more often than not over the last 2-3 years and he has a lot to prove before the 2013 side is picked. If he cant show that he is back to his best I cant see how he should get a run over Hayne, Morris or even Uate pending form.

It's quite simple. He has been injured so he hasn't had the opportunity to discredit himself in the way Morris, Uate and Hayne have. I do think he will perform well though and should be selected if he is fit. He doesn't have the same dynamic upside of Hayne, Morris and Uate but he is more reliable and better defensively. He'll be very solid, which is what NSW should really be looking for.

 

[Joker's Wild]

Well thats just it, he hasnt proven anything yet. BTW I dont think Hayne has "discredited" himself at all but I get what you are saying about the other 2.

Im happy for 2013 club form leading into the SOO series to dictate the contentious positions. IMO the only guys who should be down as certainties are Gallen, Bird, Tamou, Lewis and Farah.

 

[Señor]

Well thats just it, he hasnt proven anything yet. BTW I dont think Hayne has "discredited" himself at all but I get what you are saying about the other 2.

Im happy for 2013 club form leading into the SOO series to dictate the contentious positions. IMO the only guys who should be down as certainties are Gallen, Bird, Tamou, Lewis and Farah.

I think Gordon has proved a decent amount though, certainly to justify him being in contention. He has been a very good winger for quite a while and his stints at fullback were even better. His one game for NSW showed that he was capable of handling that level too. I don't think he looked limited or less of a player after he returned in 2012 so it is fair to draw on his long-term form when considering his position within the team.

On Hayne, I think he has discredited himself on the defensive side of things. His game is a case of being a great player but a really poor winger. Offensively he is one of the few players who has contributed consistently for NSW, along with Bird and Gallen. However, on the defensive side of things he has been almost as bad as Uate, except that his bad form extends right back to 2009 rather than being limited to 1-2 games. He compulsively rushes in and routinely lets his opposite winger get outside him.

 

[Murf]

m.On Hayne, I think he has discredited himself on the defensive side of things. His game is a case of being a great player but a really poor winger. Offensively he is one of the few players who has contributed consistently for NSW, along with Bird and Gallen. However, on the defensive side of things he has been almost as bad as Uate, except that his bad form extends right back to 2009 rather than being limited to 1-2 games. He compulsively rushes in and routinely lets his opposite winger get outside him.

Hayne is currently NSW most capped player for a reason. He has to be there, no questions, preferably at fullback.