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OT: Current Affairs and Politics

Gronk

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78,446
We can't just lift our wages and think of just Australia anymore. Lift them to high and all our products we export also get more expensive.
All unions are seeking is a living wage for blue colar workers. If we fall for “can’t afford” it rhetoric, then we are sentencing a subset of the economy to living in poverty. Do we really want an economy like others, where we import workers from third world countries to perform low paid tasks ? For example, have you noticed over the past decade who are employed at supermarkets and fast food outlets ? Indian, Bangladeshi, Pakestani, Nepalese workers are clearly being recruited to work for shit pay. How the f**k do they survive in Sydney? They must me living in overcrowded slumlord accomodation.


My son worked for Dominoes a few years back delivering pizzas. He was earning $22/h and then out of the blue was told that his hourly rate was halved. Who is going to look after these workers ?


 

hindy111

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63,896
All unions are seeking is a living wage for blue colar workers. If we fall for “can’t afford” it rhetoric, then we are sentencing a subset of the economy to living in poverty. Do we really want an economy like others, where we import workers from third world countries to perform low paid tasks ? For example, have you noticed over the past decade who are employed at supermarkets and fast food outlets ? Indian, Bangladeshi, Pakestani, Nepalese workers are clearly being recruited to work for shit pay. How the f**k do they survive in Sydney? They must me living in overcrowded slumlord accomodation.


My son worked for Dominoes a few years back delivering pizzas. He was earning $22/h and then out of the blue was told that his hourly rate was halved. Who is going to look after these workers ?




Yes same happened to my mates Son at Dominoes. He would be given a 3hr shift. Paid for a 3hr shift then made to clean for 1-2hrs end of shift for no pay.
But who owns dominoes? Indians. When his dad spoke up they just sacked him.

I feel we have become to rich and educated as a nation. Not many would want those type of $22hr jobs anymore. It's beneath them so we need to bring in people from those places with no education to do those jobs.

If we started paying them $5hr more people with jobs with more responsibility would want more. Attitudes would be - My jobs more stress or Dangerous or worse conditions or had to study. Why should I only get this amount more.

You don't feel all these things play a part? I do.

It's why trades are going hard now. We know not many want to do these harder physical and more dangerous jobs. It's supply and demand. And the way I see it is if you want the job done you'll f**king pay me good dollars to do it or go get some other merkin. It really is a beautiful attitude.
 

Twizzle

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154,294
The train drivers want to be paid more than the nurses and teachers. There are people with university degrees V people who don't even have a trade, although there is no doubt a certain amount of training involved.

When the nurses went on strike last year, hardly anyone knew unless you were due for a procedure that day. The nurses also provide skeleton staff so the hospitals don't have to shut down.

The train drivers don't mind shutting the rail system down as their ability to blackmail the public, or hold them to ransom, is why their semi skilled wages are so high.
 

Gronk

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78,446
The train drivers want to be paid more than the nurses and teachers. There are people with university degrees V people who don't even have a trade, although there is no doubt a certain amount of training involved.

When the nurses went on strike last year, hardly anyone knew unless you were due for a procedure that day. The nurses also provide skeleton staff so the hospitals don't have to shut down.

The train drivers don't mind shutting the rail system down as their ability to blackmail the public, or hold them to ransom, is why their semi skilled wages are so high.
Pretty sure the current train industrial action is about safety. There is possibly an underlying issue of the phasing out of jobs, however it is mainly about safety.

 

hindy111

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Pretty sure the current train industrial action is about safety. There is possibly an underlying issue of the phasing out of jobs, however it is mainly about safety.


Yes but they also could be using it as an excuse. Not everything you are told or read is true.
f**king rabbit
 

Twizzle

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154,294
Pretty sure the current train industrial action is about safety. There is possibly an underlying issue of the phasing out of jobs, however it is mainly about safety.


Perrotet said its about both but the unions are on about safety in the media, this was in a presser I saw last week

more here:

Perrottet said on Wednesday that after 58 meetings with the RTBU and affiliated unions, he was finished negotiating.

Rail workers are to be forced to vote on the government’s most recent offer, despite a list of claims – including a push for a 0.5% pay bump above the public sector wages cap – being outstanding.

 

Gronk

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Yes but they also could be using it as an excuse. Not everything you are told or read is true.
f**king rabbit


Per the Rail, Tram, and Bus Union (RTBU), a new Korean-built fleet of intercity trains—which are not yet in service—are "unsafe" and require modification. These trains were designed to be operated by drivers who can monitor the platform by CCTV alone, but the Union claims this doesn't give drivers adequate vision to see if a person has fallen between a train and a platform.

After these concerns were voiced, the government agreed to modify the trains to meet the union's request (transport minister David Elliot pledged $264 million to do so), but the union says the government has not committed to the pledge.

As of August 31, negotiations between the government and the RTBU are ongoing.

 

hindy111

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Per the Rail, Tram, and Bus Union (RTBU), a new Korean-built fleet of intercity trains—which are not yet in service—are "unsafe" and require modification. These trains were designed to be operated by drivers who can monitor the platform by CCTV alone, but the Union claims this doesn't give drivers adequate vision to see if a person has fallen between a train and a platform.

After these concerns were voiced, the government agreed to modify the trains to meet the union's request (transport minister David Elliot pledged $264 million to do so), but the union says the government has not committed to the pledge.

As of August 31, negotiations between the government and the RTBU are ongoing.


When I caught a train on Sunday half the carriages had taped the doors off saying do not use this carriage. I personally reckon its scare tactics. Either way I don't care.
Guy I work with listens to 2gb. I'm guessing there story is the whole things made up so liberal get chucked out and labour gets into local power.
I don't know politics. I don't care to much.
I'm just using logical guessing abilites
 
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12,290
Perottet is trying to make it look like it's about wages, with the threats over the EA etc.

He's got an election in 6 months time, and along with Eliott wants to cover over the safety issues in the foreign-produced trains his government (including Constance and Gladys before him) ordered on the cheap years ago now, which were too fat for the tunnels and now need reasonable safety adjustments as well before they can even start use.

It's an embarassing situation for his LNP government, and he's smart enough to know that things like this will hurt him at the ballots.
 

Eelementary

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57,339
I had my mortgage refinanced in November.

As of August, I am paying $1,000 a month more than I was back then, and my wages (while rising) have not risen to meet this ridiculous number.

:(
 

Eelementary

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57,339
All unions are seeking is a living wage for blue colar workers. If we fall for “can’t afford” it rhetoric, then we are sentencing a subset of the economy to living in poverty. Do we really want an economy like others, where we import workers from third world countries to perform low paid tasks ? For example, have you noticed over the past decade who are employed at supermarkets and fast food outlets ? Indian, Bangladeshi, Pakestani, Nepalese workers are clearly being recruited to work for shit pay. How the f**k do they survive in Sydney? They must me living in overcrowded slumlord accomodation.


My son worked for Dominoes a few years back delivering pizzas. He was earning $22/h and then out of the blue was told that his hourly rate was halved. Who is going to look after these workers ?



I worked for Domino's Pizza in 2006 as a driver, then eventually a Store Manager.

I earned $10.20 an hour as a driver, and $30,000 per annum as a Store Manager.

And I'd work 100-hour weeks as a manager - no joke.
 

Suitman

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Messages
56,313
Pretty sure the current train industrial action is about safety. There is possibly an underlying issue of the phasing out of jobs, however it is mainly about safety.


Do you still think this is about safety?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Email to members reveals rail union ‘resolved to fight government with everything we’ve got’
In an extraordinary email sent to union members, striking train staff have been told the Perrottet government “does not deserve a moment of peace between now and the next election”.

Daily Telegraph
September 6, 2022 - 5:00AM
https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/n.../efc6bee0dc3dc86b38a3ae9cdb96d4c7#share-tools


In an extraordinary email sent to Rail, Tram and Bus Union members, signed off by its secretary Alex Claassens, striking train staff have been told the Perrottet government “does not deserve a moment of peace between now and the next election”, seemingly proving the state’s ongoing industrial action is a political bid to give Labor a clear run to victory in March.
The email, authorised by Mr Claassens, declared the government “completely lost the plot” when Premier Dominic Perrottet threatened to tear up a wages agreement if industrial action continues.
“We are resolved to fight this government with everything we’ve got,” the August 31 email read. “This government does not deserve a moment of peace between now and the next election.”
Despite Mr Claassens declaring commuters would have another week of relative peace from industrial action, the email said a number of “indefinite actions” would “continue to cause (the government) pain”.
“Contrary to media reporting – we have not dropped any industrial action,” it said.

In subsequent campaign updates, the RTBU has vowed its fight against the government will be “smart” and “long”.
“Every time they take us on, we win. And we will again.”

Sydney Trains' employee perks
  • Industry allowance: equivalent to $3,500 per year paid on the basis workers do not go on illegal strike
  • Free public transport
  • Paid day off for union "picnic day"
  • Security allowances for guards who walk through carriages
  • Six days' "training leave" for union delegates
  • Workers paid for extra travel time if starting away from "home station"
Treasurer Matt Kean seized on the email, saying it showed the “union movement unmasked”. He said the union was “bragging about its political agenda around the election, without so much of a mention of the hundreds of thousands of commuters who are suffering under this Labor and union campaign”.
Mr Claassens, who did not write the email but signed off on it, denied it showed the union was fighting the Perrottet government on ideological grounds in order to help Labor win the election.

“I don’t care whether it’s a Liberal government in power or a bloody Labor government in power, I’ve had the same fights with the Labor government, and I would do it again in a heartbeat,” he told The Daily Telegraph.
He said the RTBU would continue industrial action which did not inconvenience the public – like keeping turnstiles open allowing customers to board trains without paying.
However he said if the union did not get a resolution in the Fair Work Commission, in hearings set down for Tuesday and Wednesday, further strikes could be on the cards.

“If there is no resolution, then I suspect that our members and delegates will ramp up their industrial action,” he said.
“I am trusting the Fair Work process will force the government to the table to negotiate in good faith. And failing that, I will go back and talk to our members and delegates and see what the next steps are.”


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


They are also fighting for -

  • 6 extra 'mental heath days' off a year (on top of leave, the extra 1 week being demanded, and RDOs/picnic days)
  • 25% increase to salary if 'anything is privatised'
  • 50% payout of 'unused' sick leave on resignation
  • All uniforms must be Australian made

Rail workers demand ‘healthy option’ meal allowances and R U OK days​

Samantha HutchinsonNational reporter
Sep 5, 2022 – 6.55pm

Unlimited single sick days, “healthy option” meal allowances and a flat 15 per cent increase to night shift pay rates for station managers are just some of the claims NSW train workers are asking for in a bitter industrial dispute.
The NSW Rail, Tram and Bus Union’s log of demands also requests drivers receive six “R U OK” days on top of their annual leave allowance. Another clause scraps a requirement for workers to hand in a doctor’s certificate when they call in sick the day before, or after, a public holiday.
The NSW government will square off against the rail union and Unions NSW in the Fair Work Commission on Tuesday morning, as the unions attempt to bring the government back to the negotiating table after weeks of industrial action have brought the city’s rail network to a standstill.

T

Log of claims | Sydney & NSW Trains Collective Agreement 2001​

• “Healthy options” meal allowance
• Provide quarterly reports to unions about the number of contractors engaged
• Other than genuine emergencies employees must not be contacted outside of work hours
• No medical certificate required for shift workers who call sick after a public holiday
• Six R U OK Days a year for drivers when affected by fatigue or personal circumstances
• Annual bonus payable for work performed during a public crisis
• Increase annual leave entitlement by one week
• Increase night shift allowance by 15%
Source: Financial Review

NSW RTBU secretary Alex Claassens, who is a qualified train driver, accused the government of walking away from the negotiating table in a bid to make union members look bad.

“We’re asking them to come back and finish off the agreement,” Mr Claassens said. “Instead, the government seems more than happy to waste taxpayers’ money in a courtroom, so they can continue the rhetoric that we are the ‘bad guys’ taking protected industrial action.”


As Mr Perrottet unveiled a new “Future Transport Strategy” for the state’s transport network on Monday, he took aim at the federal government attempt to clamp down on an employers’ ability to terminate industrial agreements. On Friday, federal Workplace Relations Minister Tony Burke wrote to the Fair Work Commission flagging new plans that would limit employers’ abilities to tear up enterprise agreements.

“I find it highly unusual that you would flag to the Fair Work Commission legislation that may be, at some point in time, introduced … and you flag it in the middle of a significant action to the union movement,” Mr Perrottet said.

“[It is] hardly a coincidence.”

While the premier declined to comment on the nature of the union’s demands, the union’s log of claims lodged at the start of the negotiations sheds light on the generous conditions which have been considered.

It includes a demand for all workers to receive an immediate 25 per cent increase to base pay if the government privatises any part of the train service. Another condition relating to sick leave requires all union members to be paid 50 per cent of their sick leave when they resign.

Increases to “on call” provisions include a jump in pay from $28.30 to $40 for rostered on-call duties, and an increase from $42.56 to $50 for all non-rostered on-call duties. Drivers are requesting double-time to be paid after eight hours of work on a Saturday, a switch restricting sign-on times to the hour or the half-hour, and a 30-minute “crib” break between the third and fifth hours worked, excluding “walk time” or however long it takes to get from the train to the break room.


All train uniforms are to be Australian made and from Australian suppliers, while a “right to disconnect” provision bans bosses from calling their employees outside the employee’s rostered working hours, unless it is a “genuine emergency”, a welfare call, or the employee is being paid an on-call allowance.
A Unions NSW application to the Fair Work Commission detailed how the union believes it can reach an agreement with the government, while accusing the government of “stultifying” and politicising the issue.






 

Incorrect

Coach
Messages
13,124
I worked for Domino's Pizza in 2006 as a driver, then eventually a Store Manager.

I earned $10.20 an hour as a driver, and $30,000 per annum as a Store Manager.

And I'd work 100-hour weeks as a manager - no joke.
100 hours a week? That works out at 14+ hours a day if you worked every day. So assuming you got at least 1 day off per week, you'd have been averaging nearly 17 hour days those other 6 days...

Allaned by Domino's.....
 

Gronk

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Staff member
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78,446
RTBU response to misinformation in today’s media
Sep 6, 2022Media releases News
Media statement from RTBU NSW Secretary, Alex Claassens:

There is reporting in some media outlets today suggesting that the actions of rail workers are purely political. This could not be further from the truth.

Rail workers have been fighting against the unsafe New Intercity Fleet for over six years and we will continue to fight, no matter who is in government, until we are confident the safety of commuters will not be put at risk by the fleet.

The idea that refusing to operate trains that we know put the lives of our children and other commuters at risk could ever be considered a political play is simply ridiculous.

There is also misinformation circulating in some media outlets relating to rail workers’ wages. The following is an overview of the wages of some rail workers’ roles, as outlined clearly in the enterprise agreement:

Station Staff (CSA2) – $61,867 pa.

Driver Thereafter – $82,212 pa.

Guard Thereafter – $72,085 pa.

Infrastructure Track Worker – $62,142.60 pa

Cleaner – $52,624 pa

While the RTBU is proud of the fact that we have helped workers negotiate decent wages and conditions over many years, the reality is the wages of our frontline rail workers are nothing when compared to the wages of the Ministers and Transport bureaucrats.

In fact, the head of Sydney Trains earns in one month what station staff on our network earn in a year.

It’s disappointing that misinformation is getting in the way of delivering what the people of NSW deserve – safe trains.

For further information on the safety issues with the New Intercity Fleet and the history of the NIF situation go to www.ourrightsourfight.com.au

 

Gronk

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
78,446
Do you still think this is about safety?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Email to members reveals rail union ‘resolved to fight government with everything we’ve got’
In an extraordinary email sent to union members, striking train staff have been told the Perrottet government “does not deserve a moment of peace between now and the next election”.

Daily Telegraph
September 6, 2022 - 5:00AM
https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/n.../efc6bee0dc3dc86b38a3ae9cdb96d4c7#share-tools


In an extraordinary email sent to Rail, Tram and Bus Union members, signed off by its secretary Alex Claassens, striking train staff have been told the Perrottet government “does not deserve a moment of peace between now and the next election”, seemingly proving the state’s ongoing industrial action is a political bid to give Labor a clear run to victory in March.
The email, authorised by Mr Claassens, declared the government “completely lost the plot” when Premier Dominic Perrottet threatened to tear up a wages agreement if industrial action continues.
“We are resolved to fight this government with everything we’ve got,” the August 31 email read. “This government does not deserve a moment of peace between now and the next election.”
Despite Mr Claassens declaring commuters would have another week of relative peace from industrial action, the email said a number of “indefinite actions” would “continue to cause (the government) pain”.
“Contrary to media reporting – we have not dropped any industrial action,” it said.

In subsequent campaign updates, the RTBU has vowed its fight against the government will be “smart” and “long”.
“Every time they take us on, we win. And we will again.”

Sydney Trains' employee perks
  • Industry allowance: equivalent to $3,500 per year paid on the basis workers do not go on illegal strike
  • Free public transport
  • Paid day off for union "picnic day"
  • Security allowances for guards who walk through carriages
  • Six days' "training leave" for union delegates
  • Workers paid for extra travel time if starting away from "home station"
Treasurer Matt Kean seized on the email, saying it showed the “union movement unmasked”. He said the union was “bragging about its political agenda around the election, without so much of a mention of the hundreds of thousands of commuters who are suffering under this Labor and union campaign”.
Mr Claassens, who did not write the email but signed off on it, denied it showed the union was fighting the Perrottet government on ideological grounds in order to help Labor win the election.

“I don’t care whether it’s a Liberal government in power or a bloody Labor government in power, I’ve had the same fights with the Labor government, and I would do it again in a heartbeat,” he told The Daily Telegraph.
He said the RTBU would continue industrial action which did not inconvenience the public – like keeping turnstiles open allowing customers to board trains without paying.
However he said if the union did not get a resolution in the Fair Work Commission, in hearings set down for Tuesday and Wednesday, further strikes could be on the cards.

“If there is no resolution, then I suspect that our members and delegates will ramp up their industrial action,” he said.
“I am trusting the Fair Work process will force the government to the table to negotiate in good faith. And failing that, I will go back and talk to our members and delegates and see what the next steps are.”


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


They are also fighting for -

  • 6 extra 'mental heath days' off a year (on top of leave, the extra 1 week being demanded, and RDOs/picnic days)
  • 25% increase to salary if 'anything is privatised'
  • 50% payout of 'unused' sick leave on resignation
  • All uniforms must be Australian made

Rail workers demand ‘healthy option’ meal allowances and R U OK days​

Samantha HutchinsonNational reporter
Sep 5, 2022 – 6.55pm

Unlimited single sick days, “healthy option” meal allowances and a flat 15 per cent increase to night shift pay rates for station managers are just some of the claims NSW train workers are asking for in a bitter industrial dispute.
The NSW Rail, Tram and Bus Union’s log of demands also requests drivers receive six “R U OK” days on top of their annual leave allowance. Another clause scraps a requirement for workers to hand in a doctor’s certificate when they call in sick the day before, or after, a public holiday.
The NSW government will square off against the rail union and Unions NSW in the Fair Work Commission on Tuesday morning, as the unions attempt to bring the government back to the negotiating table after weeks of industrial action have brought the city’s rail network to a standstill.

T

Log of claims | Sydney & NSW Trains Collective Agreement 2001​

• “Healthy options” meal allowance
• Provide quarterly reports to unions about the number of contractors engaged
• Other than genuine emergencies employees must not be contacted outside of work hours
• No medical certificate required for shift workers who call sick after a public holiday
• Six R U OK Days a year for drivers when affected by fatigue or personal circumstances
• Annual bonus payable for work performed during a public crisis
• Increase annual leave entitlement by one week
• Increase night shift allowance by 15%
Source: Financial Review

NSW RTBU secretary Alex Claassens, who is a qualified train driver, accused the government of walking away from the negotiating table in a bid to make union members look bad.

“We’re asking them to come back and finish off the agreement,” Mr Claassens said. “Instead, the government seems more than happy to waste taxpayers’ money in a courtroom, so they can continue the rhetoric that we are the ‘bad guys’ taking protected industrial action.”


As Mr Perrottet unveiled a new “Future Transport Strategy” for the state’s transport network on Monday, he took aim at the federal government attempt to clamp down on an employers’ ability to terminate industrial agreements. On Friday, federal Workplace Relations Minister Tony Burke wrote to the Fair Work Commission flagging new plans that would limit employers’ abilities to tear up enterprise agreements.

“I find it highly unusual that you would flag to the Fair Work Commission legislation that may be, at some point in time, introduced … and you flag it in the middle of a significant action to the union movement,” Mr Perrottet said.

“[It is] hardly a coincidence.”

While the premier declined to comment on the nature of the union’s demands, the union’s log of claims lodged at the start of the negotiations sheds light on the generous conditions which have been considered.

It includes a demand for all workers to receive an immediate 25 per cent increase to base pay if the government privatises any part of the train service. Another condition relating to sick leave requires all union members to be paid 50 per cent of their sick leave when they resign.

Increases to “on call” provisions include a jump in pay from $28.30 to $40 for rostered on-call duties, and an increase from $42.56 to $50 for all non-rostered on-call duties. Drivers are requesting double-time to be paid after eight hours of work on a Saturday, a switch restricting sign-on times to the hour or the half-hour, and a 30-minute “crib” break between the third and fifth hours worked, excluding “walk time” or however long it takes to get from the train to the break room.


All train uniforms are to be Australian made and from Australian suppliers, while a “right to disconnect” provision bans bosses from calling their employees outside the employee’s rostered working hours, unless it is a “genuine emergency”, a welfare call, or the employee is being paid an on-call allowance.
A Unions NSW application to the Fair Work Commission detailed how the union believes it can reach an agreement with the government, while accusing the government of “stultifying” and politicising the issue.






I am sure that the truth lies somewhere in-between. The media is being fed a lot of anti-union stuff by a conservative government, that is clear.

It is also possible that the union are looking ahead to the state election and has a desire to make Perrrottet and his government look dodgy and/or incompetent.

I also know that when you sit down at the negotiation table your log of claims far exceeds your actual expectations.
 

Angry_eel

First Grade
Messages
8,654
A For example, have you noticed over the past decade who are employed at supermarkets and fast food outlets ? Indian, Bangladeshi, Pakestani, Nepalese workers are clearly being recruited to work for shit pay. How the f**k do they survive in Sydney? They must me living in overcrowded slumlord accomodation.
[/URL]
Most would be students working their legally allowed hours(at Woolies, Coles) on top of some cash in hand work. They share houses - two or more per room.
 

Suitman

Post Whore
Messages
56,313
I am sure that the truth lies somewhere in-between. The media is being fed a lot of anti-union stuff by a conservative government, that is clear.

It is also possible that the union are looking ahead to the state election and has a desire to make Perrrottet and his government look dodgy and/or incompetent.

I also know that when you sit down at the negotiation table your log of claims far exceeds your actual expectations.

Come on Gronk. The RTBU are just taking the piss. This is NOT about safety at all. It is about the jobs of guards, and wages. The Union do not like technology taking jobs. Well, they better get used to it.
Did you not see that the National Safety Regulator had already deemed these trains safe for operations? The Sydney train system is archaic due to the Unions. The amazing success of the NW Metro has proven how far behind the rest of the world we have fallen.
Surely you can see that, considering you have travelled overseas and seen far better transport systems?
I'm actually glad that Perrotet has called them out.
Clearly, you do not catch trains. My daughter has missed so many days of her drama and acting degree at Moore Park because of the RBTU's actions. She has so much making up to do. The union don't give a f**k about the public and people like her.
As you know, I'm a construction worker, though now self employed.
I have, in the past been a union member, and benefitted from union action and was very much appreciative of it.
I've also seen the shit side of them, losing wages because they shut down sites with bomb threats.
This campaign is nothing more than blackmail.
Some of those demands I quoted above are just crazy. I applaud the Libs for telling them to get f**ked.
We don't live in the 70's anymore.
Glasson's obviously still has that mentality.
 

strider

Post Whore
Messages
79,119
Misinformation ... what a wonderful buzzword that has panned out to be .... excellent in a propaganda campaign .... i reckon there is a pretty good chance anyone who brands something "misinformation" is full of shit.
 
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