OT - In these weird times

[Beavers Headgear]

Bridges extremely dumb comments no doubt and as poorly timed and stupid as you could possibly get, but I don’t think the politicising is 1 sided, imo Ardern was grandstanding big time during the big announcement the other day with the way the spindoctors had written her phrases

I’m in a camp that doesn’t like any of them lol, especially the greens. How about the form of a labour MP in an interview yesterday saying that any small and medium businesses that are struggling are only doing so through “lack of strength”

 

[SpaceMonkey]

Simon Bridges is clearly out of ideas. He’s sticking to the idea that being the opposition means you should hold the government to account (which is true) but forgetting the important thing, that your criticisms need to be valid ones, not criticism purely for the sake of opposition. If you don’t have a valid criticism shut up, or actually offer some approval and bipartisanship when it’s justified which would show a bit of mana on his part and improve his public standing more than sniping.
I’ve noticed that his counterpart in Australia, Anthony Albanese has been pretty quiet the last couple of weeks, probably because the government has largely been doing a decent job and letting them get on with it is the right thing to do.

 

[SpaceMonkey]

Sweden tried something like this right? Attempted to continue on BAU and now have like a stupidly high death rate or something. Sorry for being so vague but im just recalling the info from an article i read a couple of days ago

yep, 15322 infected with 1765 deaths, largely as it’s got into a bunch of aged care facilities from what I’ve heard. Compare that to the rates in Aus/NZ where we have less than half the infection rate and a sub- 1% death rate.

 

[Meth]

National won't win an election with him in charge.

yeah, I think Bridges comments were a Hail Mary. He saw the election getting away on him, with Ardern pretty much gaining an unassailable position. Again, I don’t think as highly of our PM as most, but she is good for a crisis (if nothing else)

 

[sup42]

Sweden tried something like this right? Attempted to continue on BAU and now have like a stupidly high death rate or something. Sorry for being so vague but im just recalling the info from an article i read a couple of days ago

Yeah.
A few countries gave it a go, and that's because there were working off old influenza models.
The UK definitely gave it a go.
The US. So did Italy and many others. There is a lot of anger in those countries now about that herd approach.
Many feel Italy should have been listened to when they started to panic and tell other nations to stop and shut down, why no one listened to them at the time one can only speculate. Italy has excellent health care systems, and the Italians have said they were literally screaming at the rest of Europe, stop its a bad mistake, help us.

 

[jaseg]

Yeah, and it's so contagious that the 60% infection rate being thrown around in places for herd immunity seems optimistic in the extreme. >90% is more realistic (think measles). At which point you're annihilating your health system and causing a load of avoidable deaths. Actually, you'd be blowing well past that point before you got near 60%.

Totally laughable as a strategy, when you consider the huge jump in death rate, the fact that it's a new virus that we don't know how long natural immunity lasts for and that we don't have a vaccine. Herd immunity is a strategy for diseases with vaccines, not through natural attrition. Even trying for herd immunity is a risk, because there's a chance you fail and are just left with the high death rate. People are considering the potential upside with that and not the full extent of the risk.

 

[JJ]

No win situation for the opposition atm... saturation coverage for PM and only her. Govt doing fine but not perfect by any stretch. The worry is that any discerning view is almost viewed as hate speech, that’s not good for society... Bridges certainly didn’t get his message right but he’s not wrong and Bloomfield has said so...

Lack of flu vaccine and PPE at the frontline is fact... but spin is keeping people unaware.

Everything is political with politics... the likes of Ardern and Key can just fool more people

 

[TheDMC]

Ardern was grandstanding big time during the big announcement the other day with the way the spindoctors had written her phrases
”

I like Arden but totally agree. What irked me is her pontificating on how well NZers have done and inferring strongly we are top of the world in our response/results to COVID. As a people and Government we have done the right things, but so have half the world, unfortunately most of them don't have the luck of being an island on the arse end of the world, with a large land mass for a small population, a strong health system, and no land borders. We are friggin lucky, not top of the world.

 

[Beavers Headgear]

I like Arden but totally agree. What irked me is her pontificating on how well NZers have done and inferring strongly we are top of the world in our response/results to COVID. As a people and Government we have done the right things, but so have half the world, unfortunately most of them don't have the luck of being an island on the arse end of the world, with a large land mass for a small population, a strong health system, and no land borders. We are friggin lucky, not top of the world.

There were lines in there along the lines of “we have saved New Zealand from mass devastation” etc which really stuck out

100% agree with you too, have seen a comparison between us and Ireland floating around on social media, it’s comparing apples and oranges on all fronts

 

[Penrose Warrior]

Bridges extremely dumb comments no doubt and as poorly timed and stupid as you could possibly get, but I don’t think the politicising is 1 sided, imo Ardern was grandstanding big time during the big announcement the other day with the way the spindoctors had written her phrases

I’m in a camp that doesn’t like any of them lol, especially the greens. How about the form of a labour MP in an interview yesterday saying that any small and medium businesses that are struggling are only doing so through “lack of strength”

No doubt, politics is their game. No pollie has ever stood up there and done what's right for the people without a single care for their job and playing a game to keep it. Ardern does it as well, but I don't have an issue with it. It's call to arms stuff, it's PR sure, but it's fairly basic politics 101. What Bridges did was one of the most brainless political stunts I've seen in a long time. As for that Labour MP, words fail me. As an owner of a brain I feel like I am fairly well in control of, I cannot think how anyone could possibly be that stupid as a) to even hold that thought b) think there's any use in releasing it into the public sphere, even if I did.

 

[Penrose Warrior]

Yeah, and it's so contagious that the 60% infection rate being thrown around in places for herd immunity seems optimistic in the extreme. >90% is more realistic (think measles). At which point you're annihilating your health system and causing a load of avoidable deaths. Actually, you'd be blowing well past that point before you got near 60%.

Totally laughable as a strategy, when you consider the huge jump in death rate, the fact that it's a new virus that we don't know how long natural immunity lasts for and that we don't have a vaccine. Herd immunity is a strategy for diseases with vaccines, not through natural attrition. Even trying for herd immunity is a risk, because there's a chance you fail and are just left with the high death rate. People are considering the potential upside with that and not the full extent of the risk.

I couldn't believe it when I read about herd immunity initially. I couldn't grasp the fact that this strategy was playing russian roulette with people's lives - with most of the chambers packed with bullets for certain demographics. I still can't. I can't even begin to imagine how I'd feel if I lived in a country that aimed for herd immunity and it took the life of a loved one. Anarchy has occured in countries for less than that, which amounts to something that loosely resembles genocide. I get that it sounds ridiculous to say that, but what else is it when you let a virus like this run free in a society where the elderly and immunocompromised are so at risk?

 

[Penrose Warrior]

If nothing else, this pandemic has shown me how stupid human beings can be. How hypocritical, how selfish. I'm sad to have to say that, and yeah there has been untold kindness and togetherness...but man.

The toilet paper hoarding crap to start it all off. 'It's only a flu'. Flagrant disregard for the guidelines (moreso overseas to be fair). People like David Clark and his mountain bike, Simon Bridges and his big mouth, the gormess Labour MP blaming small business, then we have Dr Lance O'Sullivan who has never met a camera he doesn't love, and gets on criticising people in Kaitaia for being unsafe...then finds himself in a kayak. And again, lines up a camera to tell us how fallable he is.

And that's without mentioning the clusterf**k that has been social media for this time. My god. Our noticeboard (I live in a small coastal town) has been cringe of the highest order. The local resident and rates payers group (self appointed, no jurisdiction at all) put up two signs on the entry to our own saying 'go away, this is not your home' to apparently ward off bach owners.

 

[Rich102]

I like Arden but totally agree. What irked me is her pontificating on how well NZers have done and inferring strongly we are top of the world in our response/results to COVID. As a people and Government we have done the right things, but so have half the world, unfortunately most of them don't have the luck of being an island on the arse end of the world, with a large land mass for a small population, a strong health system, and no land borders. We are friggin lucky, not top of the world.

Add to that list that the pandemic struck during our summer season.

 

[Rich102]

Ardern has worked very hard during the crisis and deserves praise.
However it shows the lack of experience within her government that she has chosen to shoulder nearly all the media duties herself and has been let down by those who should have stepped up. Winston, the Deputy PM, has been invisible; pursuing his own vendetta in the courts. The rest of NZ First and the Greens are likewise invisible.
One could be forgiven for thinking Ardern and Bloomfield run the country.

 

[sup42]

I would add one caveat to the discussion about who is doing what in New Zealand's response to the pandemic.

In functional real time and day to day decisons the Science bodies from the Director General and the head of Civil defence down are running the country (It's an invisible concession of power from elected officials to experts in the public service where the unique conditions of a state of emergency have ended up seeing these advisors make recommendations that the government due to the circumstance and risk are compelled to follow).

All kinds of interesting things spring into action including special powers granted under the state of emergency which are designed to cut through normal parliamentary and court process's to enable the Govt to act swiftly on these recommendations, in other words if there isn't a law to support a given proposal the government can essentially write one on the spot.
We are leading the world in this regard by appointing a parliamentary committee headed by the leader of the opposition specifically acting as a watchdog for the pandemic response. We are unique in the west for having chosen a body populated largely by the opposition.

When Adern was asked after a state of emergency, who is running the country, she replied along the lines of, we both have roles in leading the country (she was referring to the head of civil defence).

But the lockdown and the nuts and bolts of it are at the recommendation of Doctor Bloomfield.

Of course as with other countries Political leaders have the choice to ignore the recommendations, but that's not what is happening in New Zealand, the parliament are using their power to follow the leadership through directives coming from the Scientific body.

To lock up most of the population you can assume the Science is exercising more power than any other body has in our history on home soil, more than our military.

Level three we are told by Jacinda Adern is being rolled out in a all embracing acceptance of a written report by Doctor Bloomfield.

Interesting times.

Quite honestly for all Aderns faults I think without her we would have been placed in harms way.

As for us being an island, dont forget the United Kingdom geographically similar. They have in the past during world wars shown with strong leadership they are well capable culturally of closing their countries down.

Singapore is the one to compare with, an initial excellent response, now in a worrying second wave of infections, if New Zealand beats Singapores response to this thing then yes we are world beaters.

Singapore was geared up for this thanks to previous pandemics, we were not.

If we make good decisions and stay with low cases then we are the leaders in this thing (along side Australia at this stage). The virus was everywhere in New Zealand and right on the cusp of getting completely out of control.

 

[sup42]

Just on the flu vaccine....

The lockdown has meant record low flu infections.

Hopefully they can sort the supply by level 2.

Just another example of what happens when everyone presents for Vaccination all at once...like toilet rolls...except the people responsible for the flu vaccine are also trying to juggle Corona issues, small country syndrome.

 

[Penrose Warrior]

I couldn't agree with you more. I'm not a red voter (or at least I haven't been) but I believe we would be in a much worse position without Ardern at the helm.

Yes we have obvious advantages with our wide-spread population mass, although that's not at all true in terms of Auckland - where the majority of our cases came in through international travel - and there has not been a significant issue there. Yes it's summer, yes we're isolated from the rest of the world, but we're still handled this incredibly well.

It's been a nice time to unfriend the people who want to endlessly criticise the response of the government, like their blue troops would've done any better. Of course a lot of these people could care less if a few more people died to protect their investments and business interests. I don't mind a bit of criticism, and as a teacher I have been less than impressed with the consistency and due care of response towards the education sector in particular, but at least in my circles there's been a lot of mindless bashing that amounts to no more than playing the man and not the ball.

 

[Meth]

Ardern has worked very hard during the crisis and deserves praise.
However it shows the lack of experience within her government that she has chosen to shoulder nearly all the media duties herself and has been let down by those who should have stepped up. Winston, the Deputy PM, has been invisible; pursuing his own vendetta in the courts. The rest of NZ First and the Greens are likewise invisible.
One could be forgiven for thinking Ardern and Bloomfield run the country.

Hmmm, I disagree with this. When there's a crisis, you want to hear from the leader, not the Lackie. As is well acknowledged, everyone below Ardern in this government is fairly inept, but even if they were strong- Ardern is the chief.

 

[sup42]

Todays numbers are stunning.

Especially testing. I'm very surprised they managed six thousand.

I thought getting to five thousand was an ambitious target in four weeks, given that we stayed in the one K plus range for a while. We have needeld a three day extension to level four to allow for reaching five K, so an additional 1480 tests over that five K is astounding.

Going off the time it takes to approve new testing labs, it is about two weeks to train, audit, and approve two labs (that will be record speed). So in four weeks we have added four new labs to the national approved testing facilities).

This weeks start we were at four newly approved facilities, that's a fair amount of Hazmat training, new staff, new lab layouts etc.

Very impressed I gotta say.

Only three new cases which were already counted yesterday (arrivals from Uruguay).

So no community transmission detected.

In other words we are winning.

 

[TheDMC]

The local resident and rates payers group (self appointed, no jurisdiction at all) put up two signs on the entry to our own saying 'go away, this is not your home' to apparently ward off bach owners.

That is farked, and all too common. Plenty of redneck narrow minded numpties in NZ if you dig deep enough.