Other games

[Chins get the wins]

Every team needs good plodders but the talk that Burto is some soft downhill skier is pretty funny.

 

[Crashtest]

Sadly, in a world of social media and instant access to information, people want results immediately. But an NRL team is a collection of people working together to win a Premiership. It's not like a business where you can change products, invest in new machinery, or change the financing and see things improve immediately. It's just people.

Sure, you can change processes, build training academies and maybe implement some new sports technology, but that doesnt make a team tackle better or never give up when things are tough. You can have better game plans. But the only thing you can change that makes a real difference are the people and their values and attitudes.

That takes time. Some wont trust the new coach, some will hide their resistance in a passive aggresive manner and some will just openly decide they dont like the new direction. You can't change people's attitudes and values significantly in a year. In a complex organisation like an NRL team, you need a year just to fully understand the problem you are dealing with. In year two the changes you make can start to take hold and you can hope to see improvement. The coach will have to get rid of those not on the bus. Ivan had RCG as a good example of this. Luke Lewis was another.

The way I see it, the Panthers board led by Don Feltis had no hubris about the need to change. There was no "We are the Panthers we should be the best". There was no historical greatness to call to arms and give a sense of entitlement. Two Premierships in 40 years just pointed to mediocrity and the board embraced that and said "let's change that".

The Dogs and the Dragons are two great examples where they are held back by their history. "We should be back where we belong as Premiership winners". They talk about the 11 premierships (it was a NSW competition with no Melbourne, QLD or NZ teams and the salary cap didn't exist. Get over yourselves), they talk about "the Entertainers". But no team is owed anything. Historical greatness means nothing if you don't evolve to deal with the changes around you. You either evolve or new teams like the Dolphins are going to come and beat you.

If the Dogs two year cycle holds true and they change boards again, next year may see them blow it all up and start again. And on it goes....

Great post. I need to hire you for the organisation I work for to help drive culture change!

 

[chrisD]

With the coaching changes that Gus made here (and I am talking about Ivan the first time and then Hook) they occurred before the ‘drums started beating’. So he identified he wanted change and was able to execute without the outside noise; and importantly both decisions took us forward.

not sure the point I am trying to make other that Gus doesn’t seem to have an issue with firing coaches, but has done so most successfully when he has been able to choose the timing.

Firing Ivan for Hook did not take Penrith forward. It cost us a decent shot at another premiership.

 

[Pomoz]

Great post. I need to hire you for the organisation I work for to help drive culture change!

Thanks and good luck with that. Change management is the hardest thing to do. Most people can't make the tough decisions and don't want to move people who aren't on the bus, especially if they are reasonable performers.

Imagine telling Wally Lewis, QLD legend and Australian captain, we want you to leave? Bennett did that and continually made tough decisions to move players. What is telling is that he says he never regretted making the tough decisions, but he did regret not sacking the good players who had drink problems. "I failed them" he said. "They would have been much better people if they were dealt with early so they learned from their mistakes". Bennett is a great leader.

 

[Kilkenny]

Nice to see the Tigers having a crack. Good fight back. At least given themselves a crack.

 

[Kilkenny]

I’ve been over the whole bunker involvement for a long time now, but I really think we just need to not award tries anymore.

If there is a an incident that may constitute a try forget about the referee making a decision, it is totally pointless, just let the bunker rule on all tries.

The whole emotion, spontaneity around the enjoyment of scoring a try is gone, we have rubbed that out if the game entirely.

Watch endless replays at the slowest of slowmos and then find a reason to disallow a try.

I think years ago the bunker was introduced to try and eliminate the howlers, we are far removed from that now and the game is much the worse for it. Super slow motion, watch endless replays and find a rule or replay to rule a try out. I’m over it frankly. It’s just ruining the game.

 

[MugaB]

I’ve been over the whole bunker involvement for a long time now, but I really think we just need to not award tries anymore.

If there is a an incident that may constitute a try forget about the referee making a decision, it is totally pointless, just let the bunker rule on all tries.

The whole emotion, spontaneity around the enjoyment of scoring a try is gone, we have rubbed that out if the game entirely.

Watch endless replays at the slowest of slowmos and then find a reason to disallow a try.

I think years ago the bunker was introduced to try and eliminate the howlers, we are far removed from that now and the game is much the worse for it. Super slow motion, watch endless replays and find a rule or replay to rule a try out. I’m over it frankly. It’s just ruining the game.

Why cant the bunker just start looking at the try straight away?? They dont need the ref to award it, then wait for the ref to go hang on a few minutes later, whilst the kicker is setting up, then stop and make a f**kn rectangle with his fingers, then we watch 5 replays of the same try, before they howl the decision anyway.... just start looking at it, it will cut down the time by half, they dont need to have all that time wasted, by the time the ref does his finger square for the bunker to check, theyd have the final shot ready to go...

 

[Kilkenny]

Why cant the bunker just start looking at the try straight away?? They dont need the ref to award it, then wait for the ref to go hang on a few minutes later, whilst the kicker is setting up, then stop and make a f**kn rectangle with his fingers, then we watch 5 replays of the same try, before they howl the decision anyway.... just start looking at it, it will cut down the time by half, they dont need to have all that time wasted, by the time the ref does his finger square for the bunker to check, theyd have the final shot ready to go...

They do, they watch it goodness knows how many times, then let the on field referee know we need to have a look at it when in 90% of cases they have already decided it is a no try. What’s the f**king point of the whole exercise.

 

[MugaB]

They do, they watch it goodness knows how many times, then let the on field referee know we need to have a look at it when in 90% of cases they have already decided it is a no try. What’s the f**king point of the whole exercise.

If they are letting them know, then why do they again run by the playby play of it taking fknig forever to decide on it, just show the one angle they saw was the negative to the try and be done with it, its like they only look at it, if the refs deems it so

 

[age.s]

Yeah my understanding was that the bunker was looking at it the whole time, but there have clearly been times when the ref is looking at the big screen and telling the bunker what he's seeing/wants them to check.

Maybe they had the work experience kid running it on those occasions.

 

[The Realist]

Firing Ivan for Hook did not take Penrith forward. It cost us a decent shot at another premiership.

I'm not so sure. Whilst we can't go back in time and change things then 'see what happens', I am fairly certain that the Ivan we have now would be significantly different if he were never fired. I think he learned a lot about himself and also had time to reflect on his coaching in his time away from the Panthers. I honestly think it made him a far better coach. Sometimes people need a shock to their system and a dramatic change in circuimstances to grow - rather than staying 'comfortable'.

One might also argue that if Ivan had never been fired our roster would have been different and also our team culture. So many variables to speculate on. I for one would not change a single thing given our performances since 2020 started.

 

[BxTom]

I'm not so sure. Whilst we can't go back in time and change things then 'see what happens', I am fairly certain that the Ivan we have now would be significantly different if he were never fired. I think he learned a lot about himself and also had time to reflect on his coaching in his time away from the Panthers. I honestly think it made him a far better coach. Sometimes people need a shock to their system and a dramatic change in circuimstances to grow - rather than staying 'comfortable'.

One might also argue that if Ivan had never been fired our roster would have been different and also our team culture. So many variables to speculate on. I for one would not change a single thing given our performances since 2020 started.

I agree with this. I also believe that the learning continued after he started his second stint here. To give Hook his due credit, he put the fitness and steel into most of the team. Who has forgotten the 'pieface' training when Ivan first returned? I recall Nathan saying something about needing better fitness after Ivan returned. I think that our current team is thanks to a combination of Gus, Hook, Cleary (stints one and two) and our assistant coaches. It's really just the level that each contributed that you can argue about.

 

[The Realist]

To give Hook his due credit, he put the fitness and steel into most of the team.

I can't remember exactly which year it was - I think it was 2018 - and about half way through the season we were top of the table along with St George. We played them at home and absolutely clobbered them with our defence. We had been very good defensively that year until a little later in the season where we just seemed to fall away.

But it was the 1st time I had noted that the Panthers were winning games with defense. Previously our mentality had been to just score more than the opposition - a throw back to the 2003-2004 Black Magic era.

I definitely believe that Hook contributed significantly to laying those defensive (and fitness) foundations. He however could not coach Red Zone attack to save his life and 2019 Ivan also struggled to get the Panthers firing in the Red Zone.

 

[BxTom]

I can't remember exactly which year it was - I think it was 2018 - and about half way through the season we were top of the table along with St George. We played them at home and absolutely clobbered them with our defence. We had been very good defensively that year until a little later in the season where we just seemed to fall away.

But it was the 1st time I had noted that the Panthers were winning games with defense. Previously our mentality had been to just score more than the opposition - a throw back to the 2003-2004 Black Magic era.

I definitely believe that Hook contributed significantly to laying those defensive (and fitness) foundations. He however could not coach Red Zone attack to save his life and 2019 Ivan also struggled to get the Panthers firing in the Red Zone.

Agree, he got us to several finals (3 out of 4 years?) for the first time in our history - ~45 years at that stage, but couldn't quite take us higher. If we had a good attacking (assistant) coach who Hook would allow to coach, Hook may still be here with a premiership or two behind him.

 

[Alintheeast]

Agree, he got us to several finals (3 out of 4 years?) for the first time in our history - ~45 years at that stage, but couldn't quite take us higher. If we had a good attacking (assistant) coach who Hook would allow to coach, Hook may still be here with a premiership or two behind him.

I remember watching during that period it seemed like we wanted to primarily beat the opposition into the ground. We had very physical sides the replacement rules were also a bit more generous. Given a choice Panthers preferred tackling to tries.

 

[maple_69]

Agree that Hook played a crucial role in transforming the culture and character of the club towards what it is now. He was never going to be the guy to take us over the top, didn’t trust his room enough, but Ivan appears to have learnt throughout his career, rather than being a natural and by that you have to assume 2016-2018 was just as important to him becoming the guy we needed him to be. Weird story really but it worked.

 

[age.s]

I was there that night against St George and remember very clearly the pride I had in the team walking out. It wasn't flashy but we absolutely ground them down in what would seem now like a prototypical Panthers performance. I remember that was one of the first nights I really saw Yeo and Fish as elite players too.

The seeds were 100% being sewn during that era, which is why the idea that Hook was just a trash coach never gelled with me.

 

[Chins get the wins]

Hook is a failure who's failed everywhere he's been. How the f**k Gus gave him a job is so incompetent

 

[BxTom]

Hook is a failure who's failed everywhere he's been. How the f**k Gus gave him a job is so incompetent

You really are an attention seeker aren't you.

 

[Chins get the wins]

You really are an attention seeker aren't you.

Oh honey