Paul Kent: NRL salary cap isn't working

[Craig Johnston]

Not nitpicking Craig, just responding to your post.

Yep, all kids with potential but no guarantees of success mind you. Plus every other club has just as much chance of picking up everyone of those players - yet didn't. A guess would be not because of some moral conviction but because they simply didn't appreciate/recognise the talent as quick as the roosters. It's what we pay O'Sullivan for.

bullshit other clubs weren't aware of their talent, i've just given you plenty of examples of where they were.....

what's not right obviously is how the chooks can get away with paying what they do to steal these kids away. i can understand where the broncos just f**k up because they didn't rate jono thurston cam smith etc...but there are clear cases for the chooks where they've pinched well known upcoming stars simply because of a chequebook.........maybe a juniors cap is what is needed.

 

[franklin2323]

Let's not pretend recruitment and retention is a level playing field, and that every club has the same challenge to build and retain a squad as any other.

Every side has their advantages over others... It's fair in that case

 

[Garbler]

This topic only proves its easier to blame a salary cap then your clubs personnel.

 

[Edwahu]

Every side has their advantages over others... It's fair in that case

So every advantage ends up conveniently equaling out?

 

[Valheru]

bullshit other clubs weren't aware of their talent, i've just given you plenty of examples of where they were.....

what's not right obviously is how the chooks can get away with paying what they do to steal these kids away. i can understand where the broncos just f**k up because they didn't rate jono thurston cam smith etc...but there are clear cases for the chooks where they've pinched well known upcoming stars simply because of a chequebook.........maybe a juniors cap is what is needed.

Cry me a river

Welcome to professional sport.

No one had an issue when the roosters were awful for the majority of the 05-12 period. Now we have rebuilt with smart acquisitions and retentions, we must be over the cap.

 

[Craig Johnston]

Cry me a river

Welcome to professional sport.

No one had an issue when the roosters were awful for the majority of the 05-12 period. Now we have rebuilt with smart acquisitions and retentions, we must be over the cap.

if you've paid attention, you'll see that i have in fact defended your lot in relations to the cap, it's the uncapped junior poaching which i'm questioning.

 

[morley101]

bullshit other clubs weren't aware of their talent, i've just given you plenty of examples of where they were.....

what's not right obviously is how the chooks can get away with paying what they do to steal these kids away. i can understand where the broncos just f**k up because they didn't rate jono thurston cam smith etc...but there are clear cases for the chooks where they've pinched well known upcoming stars simply because of a chequebook.........maybe a juniors cap is what is needed.

There is a NYC Salary Cap.... $250,000

Some clubs put their top NYC players in their top 25 players. RTS was one such player.

 

[Captain Apollo]

bullshit other clubs weren't aware of their talent, i've just given you plenty of examples of where they were.....

what's not right obviously is how the chooks can get away with paying what they do to steal these kids away. i can understand where the broncos just f**k up because they didn't rate jono thurston cam smith etc...but there are clear cases for the chooks where they've pinched well known upcoming stars simply because of a chequebook.........maybe a juniors cap is what is needed.

Mitchell Pearce "pinched" by the chequebook eh? I suggest you go back and read the public pronouncements from his father as to why Mitchell went to the Chooks. He said he recommended the Chooks as he did not want Mitchell playing in his shadow and it was felt (rightly or wrongly) that he would learn more under Ricky Stuart. Or are you saying Wayne Pearce is a liar?

 

[Craig Johnston]

There is a NYC Salary Cap.... $250,000

Some clubs put their top NYC players in their top 25 players. RTS was one such player.

except they're buying them (sign on cheque) before they get to toyota cup;

Please note: Players outside the Top 25 who do not compete in the NRL or Holden Cup, are NOT subject to the Salary Cap.

 

[Captain Apollo]

except they're buying them (sign on cheque) before they get to toyota cup;

So clubs go around signing 15-16 year old on contracts worth hundreds of thousands of dollars each eh and manage to not go bankrupt huh? :crazy:

 

[Craig Johnston]

So clubs go around signing 15-16 year old on contracts worth hundreds of thousands of dollars each eh and manage to not go bankrupt huh? :crazy:

yep using the money they don't have to spend on actually setting up their own nurseries and funding their own junior development grassroot programs

 

[morley101]

except they're buying them (sign on cheque) before they get to toyota cup;

So you are talking about 16 and 17 year olds. Once again there are no
guarantees these players will ever get to the NRL. Once they turn 18
they are under a Salary Cap.
Nobody under 18 can play NRL.

 

[Craig Johnston]

So you are talking about 16 and 17 year olds. Once again there are no
guarantees these players will ever get to the NRL. Once they turn 18
they are under a Salary Cap.
Nobody under 18 can play NRL.

not ongoing payments no, a nice handy sign on bonus for a 17/18 year old on the other hand......

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

So clubs go around signing 15-16 year old on contracts worth hundreds of thousands of dollars each eh and manage to not go bankrupt huh? :crazy:

No, they still have to be outside the top 25....

Basically, whatever the lowest salary in the top 25 is (usually the minimum wage, $50k IRRC) that becomes the limit for every contract in the U20s, NSW Cup, ect.

 

[morley101]

No, they still have to be outside the top 25....

Basically, whatever the lowest salary in the top 25 is (usually the minimum wage, $50k IRRC) that becomes the limit for every contract in the U20s, NSW Cup, ect.

The NYC salary cap is $250,000. Have a look in the NSW Cup or ISC and see how many under 20s play.

 

[rabbitohs95]

Everyone's having a cry about the Roosters signing young players, but considering they barely have any juniors to choose from their own area, what option does it leave them?

The only thing thats rotten about the cap is the third party agreements. Its pretty much saying if you have the extra money, use it. And some teams just dont have it.

 

[Danish]

yep using the money they don't have to spend on actually setting up their own nurseries and funding their own junior development grassroot programs

How much money do you actually think goes from an NRL club's operating budget to run junior clubs?

I'll give you a hint, its floats somewhere between zero and f**k all. Souths for example haven't paid a zac towards junior development in decades. In fact up until Crowe took (and possibly even for a few years afterward) they've actually pillaged millions out of their junior operations to keep the NRL side afloat over the years.

Junior clubs have to pay their own way. Thats why rego is an absolute bomb for most kids and clubs are always struggling year to year regardless of what NRL side they happen to fall under.

 

[mxlegend99]

How much money do you actually think goes from an NRL club's operating budget to run junior clubs?

I'll give you a hint, its floats somewhere between zero and f**k all. Souths for example haven't paid a zac towards junior development in decades. In fact up until Crowe took (and possibly even for a few years afterward) they've actually pillaged millions out of their junior operations to keep the NRL side afloat over the years.

Junior clubs have to pay their own way. Thats why rego is an absolute bomb for most kids and clubs are always struggling year to year regardless of what NRL side they happen to fall under.

Some clubs might not invest any money at all, but that's not true of all the clubs. Panthers invest $2.5m per year into junior development, that's the figure Phil Gould gave in his Sterlo interview.

Gould is also happy to take a gamble on players who he has never seen or met. He signed Eto Nabouli on the recommendation of Andrew Johns and Brad Fittler, and while he never played first grade for us, we spent 2 years developing him. We also signed Waqa Blake from Perth under similar circumstances.

Signing an unwanted player or a bloke who isn't in a position to have a pathway to the NRL is a good thing for everyone involved IMO. But when it comes to going to clubs investing heavily in junior development, and then taking some of their best players because they can't match what you're offering, or they might have a bit more competition for first grade spots etc. it's when clubs deserved to be called out for it.

 

[betcats]

The problem is the only reward clubs get for investing in their nurseries is they produce talent, but that talent is available to every other club to sign as well. How many kids would be lost to league if Penrith pulled their money out of the junior nursery because they decided its not worth it? What if every club who puts money into juniors did the same and just signed players like the roosters without putting anything back.

Its almost an advantage for the Roosters having no juniors, they dont have to spend money on the juniors and can just scout and sign the best players from elsewhere.

 

[Noname36]

Signing an unwanted player or a bloke who isn't in a position to have a pathway to the NRL is a good thing for everyone involved IMO. But when it comes to going to clubs investing heavily in junior development, and then taking some of their best players because they can't match what you're offering, or they might have a bit more competition for first grade spots etc. it's when clubs deserved to be called out for it.

This. The biggest joke I find is when clubs poach a talented junior from another NRL club's system and then pat themselves on the back for all the "development" they put into them when they make FG. Sure they might have further developed or fine tuned their skills a bit but I can guarantee you that job isn't very difficult when another club has already identified them as a talent.