Phil Rothfield- Nine Sydney teams is too many

[Captain Apollo]

So your talking about the Roosters? Minor prems and ave 14k.........just bloody terrible.

Mate they have no juniors but can use 3rd partys to stay up top the table

They do not have to pay for Jnr RL development. What do the roosters do when uncle Nick kicks the bucket?

You guessed it, relocation.

Roosters = Leaches on all the development NRL clubs.

When is the NRL going to start rewarding clubs that grow the base?

The day that happens the roosters are toast and the NRL moves forward in leaps and bounds.

Thats my rant feel free to chime in if you like..:lol::lol:

A Parramatta supporters accusing any other club of being "leaches" is laughable. Remind me again which club has a good part of its leagues club on crown land, and had to get special legislation pushed thru state Parliament to enable it to be given a 99 year lease on that land when the lease was last renewed on said land? Or how about trying to get Parramatta City Council to "sponsor" its players? Hypocrite.

 

[Perth Red]

Tigers have shown they can be popular.
They draw well on tv when they are successful.
They have a shit load of casual fans.
Campbelltown and surrounding areas is a rugby league heartland filled with fans.
Wouldn't it make sense for the nrl to get that team running to its potential.

There should be a perth team, we should be trying to attract new fans. But what's the point of attracting 100k perth fans if at the same time you lose 100k tigers fans at the same time? That's not actually growing the game. Why can't the nrl get its teams in order then expand? Why can't we have both the 100k tigers fans AND the 100k perth fans?

The argument that these clubs have had long enough to get right isn't kind of true. It's taken some clubs many years to get over the effects of the super league era, many have had trouble adjusting to the professional era, and the nrl as a whole has been mismanaged for years and been deliberately undervalued by past management. So let's give our current clubs a some time under the new management, with more money available due to better tv deals and consolidate what we've got. Nrl has the best tv ratings, more people are watching it then any other sport in Australia, so to start cutting teams now doesn't make sense, it would taking a huge backward step to lose any of the current clubs

I actually agree with you but the NRL does not want to use its money to prop up struggling clubs AND expand and grow the game so we end up with the arguments now taking place. NRL has enough income to do both but is choosing not to so it will be inevitable those fans in areas without any NRL club and those fans who want to see the game have a much larger footprint and be more aggressive in its expansion are going to call for the NRL to rethink its strategy.

Whilst the NRL continues to blame the existing clubs for not being able to expand you are going to get people suggesting that maybe they should cut some loose in order to spend that money growing the game elsewhere. NRL is really stupid for blaming the 16 clubs for its lack of action and planning on expansion. They've known this is a key issue for the game since 2008 and for tens of thousands of fans in hopeful areas yet continue to do nothing at any level about it and INstead just blame the 16 clubs for not being strong enough to allow them to expand the game.

 

[DiegoNT]

There is probably to many sydney teams in the comp. If you were to start a new 16 team nrl Comp today you'd probably have 5-6 teams from sydney. But if you were to cut 3 sydney teams today you'd alienate and lose thousands of nrl fans. The theory that if you cut a team those followers will just support a neighboring side has already shown to be untrue. Norths fans aren't suddenly fans of the Eagles, souths fans didn't become roosters fans when they were excluded. Would tigers fans support eels or bulldogs if they were cut? Would sharks fans start following the dragons or the rabbitohs? Mergers have also shown to be failures. Tigers are struggling and bears/Eagles was a disaster. Would a bulldogs/eel merger work? Would a rabbitohs/sharks merger work? Depending on which 3-4 sydney teams you cut you could be losing a fan base of upto a million people.

A perth team would be a a step forward for the game for sure . But losing a sydney team would be a step backwards. Why would we take a step backwards before we took that step forward. Wouldn't it make sense to have a solid base to step forward from.

A lot of the doom and gloom in here is from people panicking about afls expansion. There expansion is done, they have no where else to grow. In the 80s the afl and nrl were city comps of Melbourne and sydney respectively. Since then afl has grown the game to perth, adelaide, Sydney, GC and Brisbane. In the same time the nrl has expanded to wollongong, Canberra, newcastle, Brisbane, GC, new Zealand, north qld, melbourne. We've also had an attempt at perth and adelaide. 3 of the AFL's expansion clubs are now expensive blackholes, nrl made the tough decision to cut some expansion clubs to get the game back in order after super league. To say the afl is doing better on expansion is very debatable. The fact that the nrl gets higher viewership, especially from the regionals, shows we are just as widespread around the population of australia as afl Is. If the afl has to eventually cut their 3 failing expansion clubs because they rushed them, while the nrl has got its house in order first and expanded with clubs on their own merit who can stand on their own 2 feet then the nrl will have easily won the expansion game

 

[t-ba]

What I find more concerning is teams that are topping the ladder year after year but still cant get good crowds... Why is there not more of a focus on that?

100% on the money with this comment. Super League and the Swans and Waraturds gutted the Support for Manly on account of fan disillusionment and we went from one of the best attended to our current state. No management team has sought to fix this problem however, which is a shame. There are an absolute truckload of Manly fans on both the beaches and the North Shore that need proper engaging, and the club should be held to account for that. We've got the numbers for a decent following, but no one is tapping in to it.

Culling the Tigers is madness, but it's probably time to bite the bullet and move lockstock to a big staduium and wear the consequences for a decade or so.

 

[Perth Red]

Diego I think you over estimate the real number of fans most clubs have, I'd be surprised if it is over 150k in most cases, and by fans I am talking about the ones who go to games, are members, by merchandise or at the very least tune in on to tv to watch their team play.

Again anyone sensible isn't calling for expansion next season but we are calling for a plan for expansion, choose where it will be, choose when it will be and start the ground work now. If it takes 5 years for that groundwork to make a place or the NRL ready so be it but at least get it started.
Did you know that despite all the potential Perth has shown the NRL has not given the nrlwa a single cent more income to grow tne grass roots Since smith took over? Did you know that despite promising it and getting great crowds that we have gone from having 3 NRL games a year played in Perth to 1 and that is only at the whim of the club involved? Did you know that the NRL ousted the warl board of committed and passionate wa rugby league people who had a great vision for where the game here needed to go and replaced it with its own yes people and made the CEO basically a puppet who they have gagged? Did you know that despite the huge success of the WC Pirates Jnr system and SG ball team that is producing NRL first graders the NRL don't contribute a cent to its running and it only survives by the good grace and fabulous support of tne guy that owns cash converters? This is the reality of a lack of planning on expansion and where the frustration comes from.

Ps afl will not fail, they have their plan to create the perception of Australia's game and they are investing heavily in it and have set up their revenue and systems accordingly. That is called a vision and a plan, something Dave Smirth might like to learn from. Every major capital city in Australia has at least one club and mostly two and every minor capital city has a club aligned and playing a number of games in it, we are decades from being able to say the same.

 

[BlueandGold]

A Parramatta supporters accusing any other club of being "leaches" is laughable. Remind me again which club has a good part of its leagues club on crown land, and had to get special legislation pushed thru state Parliament to enable it to be given a 99 year lease on that land when the lease was last renewed on said land? Or how about trying to get Parramatta City Council to "sponsor" its players? Hypocrite.

Okay besides the fact that you just removed the goal posts and took them to Mars...

How much Money does Rooster spend on Jnr development again?

I think the rooster would have the record for a team winning the minor prem and there crowd ave going backwards.

No other team in the NRL and maybe in Aus sport has done that feet..:lol::lol:

What happens when uncle Nick kicks the bucket?

Its no wander the NRL crowd ave is going backwards, the roosters are on top of the table but there fans are no were to be seen.

 

[Shorty]

Diego I think you over estimate the real number of fans most clubs have, I'd be surprised if it is over 150k in most cases, and by fans I am talking about the ones who go to games, are members, by merchandise or at the very least tune in on to tv to watch their team play.

Again anyone sensible isn't calling for expansion next season but we are calling for a plan for expansion, choose where it will be, choose when it will be and start the ground work now. If it takes 5 years for that groundwork to make a place or the NRL ready so be it but at least get it started.
Did you know that despite all the potential Perth has shown the NRL has not given the nrlwa a single cent more income to grow tne grass roots Since smith took over? Did you know that despite promising it and getting great crowds that we have gone from having 3 NRL games a year played in Perth to 1 and that is only at the whim of the club involved? Did you know that the NRL ousted the warl board of committed and passionate wa rugby league people who had a great vision for where the game here needed to go and replaced it with its own yes people and made the CEO basically a puppet who they have gagged? Did you know that despite the huge success of the WC Pirates Jnr system and SG ball team that is producing NRL first graders the NRL don't contribute a cent to its running and it only survives by the good grace and fabulous support of tne guy that owns cash converters? This is the reality of a lack of planning on expansion and where the frustration comes from.

Ps afl will not fail, they have their plan to create the perception of Australia's game and they are investing heavily in it and have set up their revenue and systems accordingly. That is called a vision and a plan, something Dave Smirth might like to learn from. Every major capital city in Australia has at least one club and mostly two and every minor capital city has a club aligned and playing a number of games in it, we are decades from being able to say the same.

lol you need to actually read the financials with the AFL and then come back and say stuff.
Not only are the expansion clubs losing more money than they initially planned, the quality of football has supposedly diminished and the top clubs are seriously unhappy with the system favouring the expansion clubs atm.

Perth will get a team eventually, deal with it, at the moment it's more important to strengthen what the game has.
It's easy to be an armchair critic.

 

[Captain Apollo]

Okay besides the fact that you just removed the goal posts and took them to Mars...

How much Money does Rooster spend on Jnr development again?

I think the rooster would have the record for a team winning the minor prem and there crowd ave going backwards.

No other team in the NRL and maybe in Aus sport has done that feet..:lol::lol:

What happens when uncle Nick kicks the bucket?

Its no wander the NRL crowd ave is going backwards, the roosters are on top of the table but there fans are no were to be seen.

Moving the goal posts? You mentioned money. You mentioned "leaches". If you can't handle facts then don't cast crap.

The way you mention it, it is like the Roosters have the lowest home crowds in the entire NRL. Our home crowd average for 2015 was higher than Canberra, Cronulla, Gold Coast, Manly, Melbourne, Warriors, Penrith, St George and West Tigers. Also our home ground average for the 2014 season was 14,102. For 2015 it was 15,661 nice to see that is "going backwards". I'd hate to see what you consider "going forwards" :lol:

If you are trying to troll you need to work harder. 1/10.

 

[t-ba]

The big problem with the expansion teams is that the nature of the AFL recruitment process means that the cyclical nature encouraged by the drafts has been completely distorted by the amount of picks both teams have recieved in preference to the clubs that would normally get it. Hawthorn struck complete gold in assembling their playing group at the time they did because no one could draft and trade to consistently compete with them.

The whole system is a massive failure in reality. There has been far more variety in the NRL than the ALFdespite no similar equalizing measure, and the new clubs have further damaged the system.

 

[t-ba]

Moving the goal posts? You mentioned money. You mentioned "leaches". If you can't handle facts then don't cast crap.

The way you mention it, it is like the Roosters have the lowest home crowds in the entire NRL. Our home crowd average for 2015 was higher than Canberra, Cronulla, Gold Coast, Manly, Melbourne, Warriors, Penrith, St George and West Tigers. Also our home ground average for the 2014 season was 14,102. For 2015 it was 15,661 nice to see that is "backwards". I'd hate to see what you consider "forwards" :lol:

If you are trying to troll you need to work harder. 1/10.

Your numbers over the last 40 years are historically lower than some in patches but people seem to forget that Souths didn't have particularly strong crowds for the 20 years before they got the boot.

Every club has its highlights and its lowlights. Look at Norths, shit crowds for 80 years and then the best crowds in Sydney for the early 90s.

It's all about engagement. I think a lot people underestimate the impact that ALF and RU have on Eagles and Roosters crowds.

 

[insert.pause]

I blame Wobbie Farah, the narcissist has white-anted the last two coaches, going on three, before Taylor rightly told him to f**k off and his board rightly backed the coach to do the job he has been hired for, hopefully Pascoe has a spine, unlike his predecessors.

The WT are a very well supported club, they aren't going anywhere, Rothfield just has a personal beef with Marina Go, had the Chairperson been someone else he would be praising the club & Taylor for taking control back after what happened to Farah's last victim, Mick Potter.

 

[siv]

I have a feeling that this article is just part of the ongoing Pay-TV rights negotiation

NRL wants Fox to fund the 9th NRL game

As well as NYC and National RG

Only when these negotiations finalise will we get clarity around what 2018 will look like

 

[Card Shark]

Gotta agree with you.. when the Tigers are winning they are one of the most popular teams in Sydney...

To consider chopping them would be madness..

The Tigers have made the finals 3 teams in 15 years and never finished higher than third on the ladder, but I believe their crowds would still be in the Top 3-4 Sydney teams over that period....

What I find more concerning is teams that are topping the ladder year after year but still cant get good crowds... Why is there not more of a focus on that?

How can anyone contemplate dumping / moving the Tigers, they cover a massive area in the west & the supporter base will continue to grow.

Secondly, it is a "joint venture" between Western Suburbs Magpies & Balmain Tigers - 1 Sydney club has effectively been cut for this team to exist - they've done their part.

 

[DiegoNT]

How can anyone contemplate dumping / moving the Tigers, they cover a massive area in the west & the supporter base will continue to grow.

Secondly, it is a "joint venture" between Western Suburbs Magpies & Balmain Tigers - 1 Sydney club has effectively been cut for this team to exist - they've done their part.

But if we cut the Tigers now and put a Perth team in now , in 20-30 years the perth team may grow to the same supporter base/junior base tigers have right now.
That's the argument.
It's completely illogical.
It would be better to get the Tigers right and add a perth team in later and truly grow the game not cut off one fan base to try grow another.

 

[Perth Red]

true, and in the ideal world that would happen, it is certainly the AFL model. NRL though seem to be telling us that there will be no Perth team because the tigers are up sht creek (amongst others). Their argument is that there isn't the money, vision or desire, pick one, to expand whilst they have existing clubs struggling. Of course this is a black hole argument as different clubs have struggled at different times throughout the life of the NRL. If Dave Smith thinks he is somehow going to get all clubs financially strong and profit making anytime soon then he is either extremely optimistic, extremely smart or extremely delusional, again take your pick.

The NRL has now painted a picture that is getting a backlash from people who want to see expansion, the NRL are blaming existing struggling clubs for no expansion so is it surprising that some are now going to question those clubs for holding the game back?

Not the best PR approach by the NRL I have to say

 

[butchmcdick]

wHAT WOULD HAPPEN TO THOSE WORKING CLASS KIDS IN bALMAIN IF THE TIGERS GOT CUT ?

WHAT SPORT WOULD THEY FOLLOW THEN ?

 

[hutch]

I can't believe a buzz rothfield opinion piece has caused so much controversy. The bloke is an abolished muppet with an anti rugby league agenda, stop giving him the publicity.

 

[morley101]

wHAT WOULD HAPPEN TO THOSE WORKING CLASS KIDS IN bALMAIN IF THE TIGERS GOT CUT ?

WHAT SPORT WOULD THEY FOLLOW THEN ?

The same as the Bears...

 

[DiegoNT]

true, and in the ideal world that would happen, it is certainly the AFL model. NRL though seem to be telling us that there will be no Perth team because the tigers are up sht creek (amongst others). Their argument is that there isn't the money, vision or desire, pick one, to expand whilst they have existing clubs struggling. Of course this is a black hole argument as different clubs have struggled at different times throughout the life of the NRL. If Dave Smith thinks he is somehow going to get all clubs financially strong and profit making anytime soon then he is either extremely optimistic, extremely smart or extremely delusional, again take your pick.

The NRL has now painted a picture that is getting a backlash from people who want to see expansion, the NRL are blaming existing struggling clubs for no expansion so is it surprising that some are now going to question those clubs for holding the game back?

Not the best PR approach by the NRL I have to say

Where have the nrl actually said that they're won't be a perth team?
Dave Smith has recently said he sees the nrl having 18 teams in 10 years with perth being one of the options. Richardson has also said similar things.
The nrl is currently in a negotiating process with fox. Fox wants a 9th tv spot. By saying nrl has other things they are focusing on first it pushes fox into a corner where they'll have to pay extra to get their coveted that coveted 9th tv spot. Nrl may have 2 new teams funded by fox without having to stump up the cash for those teams themselves. Compare that to afl rushing things and losing hundreds of millions of dollars.
Every Football commentator and a few people within the nrl have said that a perth team is likely in the near future but you chose to ignore all that talk. Without the nrl announcing a team right away it means that they don't care about growing the game when their is actually a lot going on behind the scenes at the moment.

 

[insert.pause]

I can't believe the NRL isn't rushing expansion and adding a team in Perth after they averaged a huge 9k viewers this year, they even sold out a game in Perth! If that's not an indication they could support an NRL club at a time when the NRL owns two clubs and has a financial stake in two others, all in rugby league heartland, I don't know what is!