Raiders furious about GWS grant

[Perth Red]

Couldn't give a f**k what they do, you might, but I don't.

and yet here you are.....

 

[El Diablo]

https://twitter.com/muir_les/status/205606889294270464

les muir ‏@muir_les

Latest on the GWS saga. Great yarn in the DA tomorrow. There's also all the latest foot news across the codes.

 

[unforgiven]

whoosh, its all part of their strategic plan to market AFL as "The Australian game", get the refugees and immigrants fresh off the plane/boat and convince them that to be fair dinkum Aussie you have to go for the Swans, Bombers or Eagles etc. and own at least one Sherin ball.

Getting Australia Post to pay for it is yet another good business deal.

But hey, it is probably unethical of them right?

You really have an issue with term unethical don't you. I really cannot believe you are still waving this flag. I have explained to you on numerous occasions how it is unethical for a sporting organisation to take money out of an area that they should be nuturing and developing. Rugby League does not need to do business this way. If the AFL feels they need to run their business in this manner, fair enough, that doesn't mean we need to follow them blindly down this path. If we do the result will not be beneficial for the game.

Country rugby league is already complaining about lack of support from the higher levels of the game. Imagine what we could lose if we start charging them for this support. This whole argument is ridculous and I'm sure you must be carrying this flag in jest.

 

[Dresden Dan]

ON HIS WAY: NRL boss David Gallop will meet with Wagga City Council to discuss the controversial $300,000 deal with GWS.

http://www.dailyadvertiser.com.au/n...ague/gallop-in-search-of-answers/2568489.aspx

Gallop in search of answers
PAMELA WHALEY
25 May, 2012 07:00 AM

NRL boss David Gallop yesterday confirmed he will meet with Wagga City Council (WCC)?next week to discuss the contentious $300,000 deal with AFL newcomer GWS.Responding to a community uproar which attracted national media coverage, Gallop will arrive in the city on Wednesday to take up the issue with WCC.

Although controversy has simmered in the sporting community since council announced the GWS deal last week, the issue remains on the NRL’s agenda. The Daily Advertiser website was bombarded with 137 comments from Wagga residents, the majority of which expressed outrage at council’s decision to provide GWS with $300,000 of funding over the next three years.

Gallop’s media manager John Brady yesterday confirmed the appointment.
“He is going to Wagga, very much on the basis of last week’s events,” Brady said yesterday.

“We said we’d like the opportunity to talk through these issues with council and he’s doing exactly what he said he would do.

“David has some things to say after the events of last week and he thought it would be good to have the discussion with council.”

Gallop’s commitment to question WCC about funding in exchange for GWS pre-season games and clinics has highlighted the seriousness of the issue within the NRL and other sporting organisations.

Although he could confirm the visit, Brady said he could not comment on any outcomes Gallop could expect from the meeting.

“It’s too early to go into that part of it,” he said.

“I can’t give you much more detail than that at this stage.”

However, mayor Kerry Pascoe yesterday said he expects Gallop to discuss partnership options between WCC and the NRL.

“I would say basically he wants to discuss this deal with GWS,” Cr Pascoe said.

“I think he thinks it’s worthwhile them sitting down with us and working out a partnership to nurture rugby league in this area.

“It’s pretty handy to have someone like David Gallop on our side.
“It’s worthwhile looking at working with them.”

Wednesday’s visit will mark the second time Gallop has visited the city since 2007 during the construction of Equex Centre.

 

[ParraEelsNRL]

and yet here you are.....

Yeah and all my posts are on this page, you're the genius arguing with everyone right through the thread vFL fan.

 

[Everlovin' Antichrist]

This whole argument is ridculous and I'm sure you must be carrying this flag in jest.

No, he's a genuine idiot.

 

[Perth Red]

Send in Dave!

 

[Loudstrat]

whoosh, its all part of their strategic plan to market AFL as "The Australian game", get the refugees and immigrants fresh off the plane/boat and convince them that to be fair dinkum Aussie you have to go for the Swans, Bombers or Eagles etc. and own at least one Sherin ball.

Getting Australia Post to pay for it is yet another good business deal.

But hey, it is probably unethical of them right?

Lots of immigrants enter Australia through Wagga..........

I can just see the Indonesian fishing boat travelling 1000kms up the Murrumbidgee, :roll:

I really dont know who is dumber - you or Dimitriou.

 

[El Diablo]

now the feds are handing out money like confetti to AFL

even Victorian newspapers seem perplexed as did a senate committee

http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport...ral-funding-gift/story-e6frepgo-1226367378676

Questions asked over Pies' $10m funding

Michael Warner
From: Herald Sun
May 26, 2012 12:00AM

A $10 million federal funding gift to the Collingwood Football Club has been compared with the infamous "sports rorts affair" of the 1990s.

The Government has poured the money into an upgrade of Collingwood's Swan St headquarters.

The Herald Sun last month revealed the Melbourne and Olympic Parks Trust, which controls the publicly owned land and recently agreed to extend Collingwood's lease at the site by 21 years, knew nothing of the grant or the Magpies' detailed development plans until a few days before the announcement.

Federal Sports Minister Kate Lundy was grilled about the funding decision at Senate estimates committee hearings this week.

"It was our understanding that Collingwood Football Club would have squared that away with the Government in Victoria," a senior Government official told the hearing.

Liberal Senator Cory Bernardi said yesterday: "This has all the elements of the infamous whiteboard affair. This has been done in a slipshod manner and it is little wonder the minister looked so uncomfortable.

"It wouldn't surprise me if this wasn't her decision."

The "sports rorts" or "whiteboard affair" surrounded former Labor sports minister Ros Kelly when she was unable to explain the distribution of federal sporting grants.

Despite the scrutiny, the $10 million grant is certain to be honoured.

Collingwood has announced it will spend $36 million on upgrading Westpac Centre precinct, with $11 million funded by the parks trust under a deal struck with the former Brumby state government.

That money is earmarked to transform the Olympic Park running into an MCG-sized training ground for Collingwood's exclusive use.

The Pies will spend up to $10 million of their money on overhauling Westpac Centre and will put in up to $5 million to a community centre - depending on attempts to find funding partners.

The $10 million in federal funds will go towards the community centre.

 

[Loudstrat]

Channeling Perth Red.........

This is a wonderful result - and yet another example of why the AFL is the best run business in the history of mankind. David Gallop should be shot because of this - I cannot understand why he has not been held accountable for the disappearance of Harold Holt or the sinking of the Titanic. Rugby League will be dead by mid August anyway, unless they punt every Sydney club and bring in sides from Perth, Kalgoorlie and Broome.

...end of channelling. What a horrible experience!

 

[NSW of Origin]

heard this on the radio so tried to find some info on the web. already abandoning 'greater' western sydney. why not? they're living at breakfast point anyway.

The Greater Western Sydney GIANTS have marked their first AFL match at Skoda Stadium by welcoming the announcement of the development of an elite training and community centre at Sydney Olympic Park.

Speaking before tonight's game against Essendon, GIANTS chairman Tony Shepherd said the new facility would also include a Multicultural and Community Education Centre (MCEC) to be accessible to the local community.

‘This is a tremendous endorsement of the GIANTS. Together with our ongoing partnership with Blacktown and the ACT, this development will enlarge our footprint across Western Sydney and ensure we remain an integral and vibrant part of the community for decades to come,’ Mr Shepherd said.

The multi-staged development would include an AFL training oval, a rectangular community training field, the MCEC and a high performance training centre on the site of the current golf driving range at Sydney Olympic Park.

Mr Shepherd acknowledged the Federal Government, Sydney Olympic Park Authority and the AFL for their involvement in assisting in the development of a state of the art training, administration and community facility in Sydney's Olympic precinct and in close proximity to the GIANTS home ground, Skoda Stadium.

‘In particular I want to acknowledge the chairman of Sydney Olympic Park Authority Michael Knight, Federal Sports Minister Senator Kate Lundy, AFL Chairman Mike Fitzpatrick and GIANTS CEO David Matthews for their vision to make this development opportunity happen.’ he said.

‘It has been widely known that the absence of a permanent summer training oval has been a major issue as the team prepared for its entry into the AFL competition in 2012 and the club needed to find a long term solution,’ Mr Shepherd said.

‘This centre will provide our talented young playing list with elite training facilities the equal of any other AFL club as well as access to the elite support services available to them in the Sydney Olympic Park precinct. It will help ensure our exciting players have long term futures with the GIANTS, and most importantly, it will give the club the very best opportunity to compete for premierships.’

Work on the training facility is scheduled to commence in August and field works are expected to be completed later in the year as the GIANTS prepare for the 2013 AFL season. Building works are expected to be completed late in 2013.

Sydney Olympic Park Authority said the development of the site enabled an acceleration of the master plan for the historic Sydney Olympic precinct with the end result realising a community facility which will be accessible by the public.

AFL Chief Operating Officer Gillon McLachlan said the new facility situated close to Skoda Stadium provided a common sense solution to the GIANTS' need for elite training facilities all-year round.

‘This initiative will ensure the GIANTS have access to great training facilities and sports science support in the Sydney Olympic Park precinct throughout the year, while also providing the local residents with access to new community facilities including the Multicultural and Community Education Centre’ he said.

The Federal Government will contribute $2 million for the MCEC to be used for community purposes. Federal Minister for Sport and Minister for Multicultural Affairs, Senator Kate Lundy, said the Giants were quickly building a diverse fan base in Greater Western Sydney and it was important to ensure new infrastructure could be accessed by the local community.

“This new facility will provide opportunities for multicultural youth organisations in western Sydney, ensuring young people have access to settlement services to strengthen community links and encourage participation,” Senator Lundy said.

“Sport is a wonderful equaliser and through the GWS GIANTS, new Australians now have a greater opportunity to be a part of a club environment where they can share a passion for sport, make friends and try something new.”

Mr Shepherd said the AFL's long term partnership with the Blacktown City Council had been crucial to the successful establishment of the GIANTS. "Based on a strong relationship with Blacktown City Council, led by Mayor Alan Pendleton and Ron Moore, the GIANTS have reiterated our ongoing commitment to be an integral part of the local community," he said.

"This year we played the first ever AFL match for premiership points against the West Coast Eagles at Blacktown on 15 April and we are very grateful for the council’s ongoing support and delighted that we will continue to enjoy a constructive working relationship that will deliver economic, sporting and social benefits to the people of Greater Western Sydney."

As part of their partnership, Mr Shepherd said the GIANTS and the Blacktown City Council were discussing a range of future initiatives. They include:

More NAB Cup matches at Blacktown International Sportspark (BISP)
Maintaining the GIANTS Academy at Blacktown to develop local talent in Western Sydney
Basing AFL and GIANTS staff at Blacktown for a range of community programs to deliver benefits to the local region
Regular NEAFL matches at BISP featuring UWS GIANTS and other teams
Staging of elite under age matches at BISP

"We want the GIANTS to be a great football club on and off the field. A club that is innovative, engages with the community and is committed to excellence. This new facility at Sydney Olympic Park together with our long term partnership with Blacktown will help us achieve that ambition," Mr Shepherd said.

http://www.gwsgiants.com.au/giants-elite-training-centre.html

With Sydney Olympic Park situated within Auburn Council which is considered to be the most easterly municipality of the government defined Western Sydney and Greater Western Sydney region, it is still within Western Sydney. But it's hardly the guts of the region. Strathfield & Canada Bay councils are literally a kilometre down the road and they are not Western Sydney.

feds are handing over more funds, but the AFL are gonna do a good job of cannibalising existing Swans support from the Inner West with this rather than win any new support from Western Sydney. :lol:

 

[Cumberland Throw]

So they have basically got

- Funding for training base at blacktown ?
-Funding for another training base at Homebush ?
-Funding for games in canberra 2M
-Funding for a new stadium in blacktown 40M
-Funding for a new stadium in Homebush 65M
- Funding for playing a game in Wagga 300k
- Use of ANZ when need be

Do they have photos of every politician rooting on craigs credit card ??

 

[Swamp]

What I want to know is what if the likes of the Bulldogs decided theyt wanted to play at the Showground would they be allowed or is this ground exclusive to the AFL now?

 

[Card Shark]

So they have basically got

- Funding for training base at blacktown ?
-Funding for another training base at Homebush ?
-Funding for games in canberra 2M
-Funding for a new stadium in blacktown 40M
-Funding for a new stadium in Homebush 65M
- Funding for playing a game in Wagga 300k
- Use of ANZ when need be

Do they have photos of every politician rooting on craigs credit card ??

When u put it that way...corruption must be rife.

 

[El Diablo]

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sp...gga-city-council/story-e6frexwr-1226373015725

Steve and Chris Mortimer fuming over GWS deal with Wagga Wagga City Council

Barry Toohey
The Daily Telegraph
May 30, 2012 12:00AM


FAVOURITE sons Steve and Chris Mortimer have labelled "pathetic" and a "waste of taxpayers' money" a decision by Wagga Wagga City Council to enter into a $300,000 funding deal with AFL club Greater Western Sydney.

The council is under fire for paying GWS $100,000 a year for three years in return for playing pre-season games and hosting promotions in the Riverina city.

The move has outraged the locals with rugby league and other sporting codes now demanding their slice of the funding pie.

NRL boss David Gallop has even bought into the controversy and will travel to Wagga Wagga today with Country Rugby League general manager Terry Quinn to seek answers at a meeting with the city's mayor Kerry Pascoe.

"I'll be going down there arm in arm with the CRL to try to get some answers as to why the council is making an investment of this type with the AFL with no similar support for our code,"Gallop said yesterday.

"It's an important issue for us. We've been big supporters of Wagga and the Riverina area for a long time.

"We've had community carnival games and trial games played down there on a regular basis and plenty of promotional visits by players and asked for nothing in return. The CRL funds junior academies in Wagga without any council support and our players and officials were among the first to visit the area to give flood relief assistance earlier this year.

"It's pretty clear rugby league is gettting the raw end of the deal here."

Steve Mortimer, one of Wagga's sporting icons now living in Sydney, can't fathom the decision.

"Why would you give that sort of money to an AFL club based in western Sydney and ignore everyone else,"he said.

"It shows an absolute total disregard and lack of respect for all the other sports in Wagga. It's a pathetic decision - it really is.

"You give up your time to go back to Wagga as often as you can to promote the city and help give it a profile. And it's not just me. Sterlo (Peter Sterling), Greg Brentnall, my brothers (Chris and Peter) - we've all put our hand up plenty of times to do our bit.

"But decisions like this make you wonder."

Chris Mortimer, a Wagga ratepayer whose son Ned plays Aussie rules locally, can't understand the move and said he's not alone.

"It's caused a hell of a drama down here," he said.

"Why would you give that sort of money to a big organisation like Greater Western Sydney that doesn't need it at the expense of other sporting organisations in the town?"

 

[El Diablo]

http://www.dailyadvertiser.com.au/b...deal-a-drain-on-city/2571729.aspx?storypage=0

GWS deal a drain on city

DAVID Gallop needs to stride into City Hall in Wagga tomorrow and ask – nay demand – the reasons Wagga City Council is treating rugby league so shabbily.

No ifs and buts – Gallop has the right to question the justification for council giving AFL club Greater Western Sydney a $300,000 handout.

Many ratepayers in the city are already doing the same, but they do not have the access by which to put their feelings directly to council.

Now is the time for one of the most powerful sporting officials in Australia to do what most of us can’t – talk up front to council on a most vexing question.

Gallop will presumably meet with a group of councillors and council staff and have the opportunity to put things directly on the table.

There needs to be no pussyfooting around – Gallop should just go straight for jugular.

How is this for an opening gambit: “Why on earth does Wagga City Council think it is in its best interest to pay $100,000 a year for three years to a multimillion-dollar organisation for favours that should be given freely.”

Although he knows the answer, Gallop will obviously also question why NRL clubs have not been offered the same deal.

The simple reason is that NRL clubs believe they have an obligation to support and build rugby league in Wagga, and not be party to bleeding it dry in the process.

I take the point that NRL clubs are often criticised for not giving enough to the region, but they don’t milk it either.

In the past I actually have been guilty of bagging NRL clubs for their high and mighty attitude.

This time I’m backing them to the hilt.

If I were David Gallop, I would be telling Wagga City Council it has made a disastrous error in judgement.

It has put one sport ahead of the rest in the city and the backlash should be swift and decisive.

I would imagine Gallop has the profile and sway to make council understand it has failed the city – and should

re-think its dreadful decision.

Or else, perhaps, NRL clubs may start putting out their hands for cash every time they intend to come to town.

However, one way or the other, I don’t think it will ever come to that.

Unlike GWS, and some its equally affluent AFL counterparts, NRL clubs are not so greedy or money-grabbing.

They understand they have a charter to keep rugby league alive in the bush, not assist in pushing it to the brink.

Believe it or not, Australian football is not going gangbusters in the Riverina.

I’m sure the people running the game will tell you different, but the reality is that the sport is treading water like the rest.

From a rugby league perspective, I can categorically say that it is barely holding its own.

Crowds, for want of a better word, have slumped to tragic levels.

All right, there might have been a $4800 gate at Greenfield Park on Sunday for Albury’s destruction of Brothers, but the figure at Harris Park for the Group Nine grand final rematch between Southcity and Gundagai was not even half of that.

It is a sad reflection on Group Nine when a game with so much appeal cannot pull enough people to create a half-decent atmosphere.

Beforehand I thought the game could attract $6000 gate – I tweeted the same – but it didn’t even get in the ball park.

Yes, the weather didn’t help – neither did lack of interest.

David Gallop came to Wagga five years ago and got an insight into the problems affecting rugby league in the city and surrounding towns.

At the time he was told rugby league was facing serious challenges like keeping young men in the game.

Heading back to town tomorrow, Gallop will find the situation is just as demanding.

Even more so now that Wagga City Council is falling hand over foot to back AFL.

Sure, I understand council will give Gallop the spiel about how GWS is promising the world and $100,000 a year is really only chicken feed.

I think the last bit irks more than most as GWS is bank-rolled by the AFL for untold millions and $100,000 is little more than pocket money for the Giants.

As the ratepayers of Wagga surely recognise, the $100,000 could, and should, be spent in more appropriate ways.

Suggestions that council is following established practice in paying an AFL club for favours doesn’t cut it.

I’ve heard it happens in country Victoria, but that is a world away from Wagga.

The fact that Bendigo, Ballarat, Bacchus Marsh or Bayindeen might have some cosy cash arrangement with North Melbourne, St Kilda, Melbourne, Richmond etc is totally and utterly irrelevant.

I suppose I can understand there could be benefits for Ballarat stitching up a deal with, say, the Kangaroos, but I get no such feeling about the Wagga and GWS arrangement.

There is absolutely no comparison.

Given the right circumstances, Ballarat and an AFL club can obviously be a good fit.

The same cannot be said for an AFL club based in Blacktown and a city 500 kilometres away in the Riverina.

GWS should be feathering its nest from Blacktown City Council, not garnering money from our pockets.

I’m sure David Gallop will point this out tomorrow.

I hope Wagga City Council listens.

 

[El Diablo]

Spot on. As a ratepayer I am disgusted in this use of our money.

Disgraceful.
Posted by Michael, 29/05/2012 9:34:17 AM, on The Daily Advertiser
Just someone from wwc please explain why we are bankrolling a billion dollar plus business the AFL using rates money?
Posted by Emma, 29/05/2012 9:42:46 AM, on The Daily Advertiser
I really hope other sports like league, soccer, union, basketball etc never do business like the AFL has in this instance.

For such a super rich sport to take money from a local town is downright pitiful. The backlash in Wagga and around has shown peoples anger.

If this is the way they wish to do business lets hope others do not follow.

Australia does not want to become this sort of country.
Posted by jagger, 29/05/2012 9:51:20 AM, on The Daily Advertiser
Hit the nail on the head Les with the GWS deal. Every other sport must be left scratching their heads.

Council owes not just these sports, but all local rate payers an open and transparent explanation at what has gone on here. Whole deal stinks to high heaven.
Posted by Bob, 29/05/2012 10:03:26 AM, on The Daily Advertiser
Goodluck Gallop. We cant even get a straight answer from this joke of a council, all the best trying to get any common sense answer.
Posted by councilanswers, 29/05/2012 10:18:09 AM, on The Daily Advertiser
All other sporting bodies need to back the NRL on this approach to council or risk missing out big time in the future.

The NRL should not be left to battle alone against the take no prisoners approach of the ruthless AFL business model.
Posted by damo, 29/05/2012 12:30:50 PM, on The Daily Advertiser
What could $300k do for junior sport in Wagga???

I would like to hear from those organisations.
Posted by Interested, 29/05/2012 3:41:34 PM, on The Daily Advertiser
Still left gobsmacked that council thinks it is a good idea to give our rate payer money away one week, then announce rates are going up yet again the next!! No wonder people around town are fuming. Wonder who really benefits from this deal?
Posted by Joanne, 29/05/2012 3:52:20 PM, on The Daily Advertiser
The powerful AFL has declared war on every other single sporting code.

They have shown that it is all about money, and securing as much of it as possible from everywhere. Whilst the AFL faithful may try and twist this as business nous, I think it is a sad indictment of where we are heading as a country. Other sports need to realise that it doesn't matter what they have given over the years, this is now big business war. Giving back to the community and supporting country areas comes a distant last. This is about making the big dollars and killing off all other sports.
Posted by marty, 29/05/2012 3:58:18 PM, on The Daily Advertiser
Rate payers cannot get a proper answer of how this whole dodgy deal was struck. What other sport has any hope of hearing the truth?

Bring on election time only way to make those elected pay for this.

Is there any one on council who could explain why this was not voted on in a council meeting but pushed through and who will benefit from this.I have to admit this was very well written Les Muir and I really enjoyed reading it
Posted by Councilwatcher, 29/05/2012 8:39:18 PM, on The Daily Advertiser
I guarantee if 300,000 was given to an NRL club like Canberra Raiders, Les Muir would be applauding it. He has a hatred for AFL. For the regular readers of his article you would know he also talks down about every other sport in particular soccer. To him this whole fiasco is about NRL being disadvantaged not about the tax payers money nor the 4 other major codes in Wagga missing out.


Posted by What if?, 29/05/2012 8:43:51 PM, on The Daily Advertiser
Great work DA. Atleast someone is trying to get the truth for us humble rate paying residents. All I can say is this is the final straw for this dysfunctional pathetic council.

No wonder there is so much infighting amongst them. Any half decent person would be questioning this whole deal.

Tell us who approved this deal, and if they had any vested interests. With all the rumours I am hearing around Wagga, maybe it is time the corruption watchdog was brought in to look at this whole fiasco.
Posted by Gem, 29/05/2012 9:57:16 PM, on The Daily Advertiser
afl is a business and this team just happened to put forward a business deal that the council fell for like all there other deals (wastes of money) they seem to fall for.

GWS are just rubbing their hands over council stupidity. this is not about AFL v NRL-NRL are probably spewing they didn't put forward a similar proposal.

Just drove through the mud car park at Paramore to drop off kids for league -need gumboots to access the grounds. apparently there are no funds.

 

[gUt]

Finally an election in Australia where the result interests me.

 

[Dresden Dan]

http://www.dailyadvertiser.com.au/b...deal-a-drain-on-city/2571729.aspx?storypage=0

I think the last bit irks more than most as GWS is bank-rolled by the AFL for untold millions and $100,000 is little more than pocket money for the Giants.

As the ratepayers of Wagga surely recognise, the $100,000 could, and should, be spent in more appropriate ways.

Suggestions that council is following established practice in paying an AFL club for favours doesn’t cut it.

I’ve heard it happens in country Victoria, but that is a world away from Wagga.

The fact that Bendigo, Ballarat, Bacchus Marsh or Bayindeen might have some cosy cash arrangement with North Melbourne, St Kilda, Melbourne, Richmond etc is totally and utterly irrelevant.

I suppose I can understand there could be benefits for Ballarat stitching up a deal with, say, the Kangaroos, but I get no such feeling about the Wagga and GWS arrangement.

There is absolutely no comparison.

Given the right circumstances, Ballarat and an AFL club can obviously be a good fit.

The same cannot be said for an AFL club based in Blacktown and a city 500 kilometres away in the Riverina.

GWS should be feathering its nest from Blacktown City Council, not garnering money from our pockets.

Surely Blacktown Council is no longer that stupid? The AFL & Giants have moved to Homebush & Breakfast Point. Which Council covers that? It isn't Blacktown.

How odd that AFL convinced Blacktown & state government to build them a new home and then not long after they decided it was no good as cricket took it up in summer. Hullo!!!! No one could see that problem beforehand?

Now after more AFL lobbying the solution from our governments is to build them a 2nd new training home at Homebush. Now they have two new AFL grounds bases in Sydney paid for by taxpayers.

Dumb luck?

 

[docbrown]

Dumb luck?

Dumb politicians.

When GWS folds before the decade's out, these boutique stadiums will be sitting empty half the year.