Rank the Brisbane bids

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

the old chicken and egg scenario. You could argue the interest isn't there because those cities don't have their own teams to support.

I am not sure whats going on in Melbourne Re: juniors. It's odd because you would think that city would have a lot of PI heritage kids who are not suited to AFL who want to play League...

I have a conspiracy theory though that the NRL and its broadcast partners (which are one and the same thing really) don't want to invest in junior pathways outside of QLD/NSW as it will diminish State of Origin in the long run.

State of Origin and Test football make it more beneficial, and crucial, to focus on developing players in Queensland, NSW, PNG, NZ and Fiji. AwFuL doesn't have this issue as there is no representative football in their shit game. It's been over 20 years since they played it.

 

[Perth Red]

KFC has sponsored Cricket Australia for decades now, that doesn't necessarily mean that CA can't work with other people as well, or that they couldn't be usurped for the right price.

Besides Mad Hatter said Macca's wants to be the BBL's sponsor, not that they are the BBL's sponsor.

Yes the degradation of our society into a massive nanny state where nobody has the freedom to make their own choices is a serious problem.

Similar things have been tried in Canberra where people have tried to get the Raiders and other local sports clubs in trouble for their fast food (and gambling, alcohol, etc) sponsorship, but there's not much you can do about busybody morality police, they've existed since time immemorial and unfortunately sometimes they are going to win the fight.

As soon as cigarette sponsorship was banned the precedent was set, so there's no going back now.

They are cutting there nose's off to spite there face's though aren't they. . .

Well depends on if you think obesity and diabetes, dementia, heart disease etc is something the Govt should care about in its population I suppose. Yes we all have personal responsibility but in reality people are generally stupid lol. We know the sht we are doing to ourselves but do it anyway. If the Govt can in any way counterbalance that stupidity without taking away freedom of choice where possible then it maybe isnt such a bad thing. I mean how frickin dumb do you have to be to drink cans of soft drink with 16 teaspoons of sugar in it????

 

[Perth Red]

I am not sure whats going on in Melbourne Re: juniors. It's odd because you would think that city would have a lot of PI heritage kids who are not suited to AFL who want to play League...

I have a conspiracy theory though that the NRL and its broadcast partners (which are one and the same thing really) don't want to invest in junior pathways outside of QLD/NSW as it will diminish State of Origin in the long run.

Its not NRL's clubs jobs to get kids playing rugby league and ensure the DO's, schools prgrams, infrastructure, coaching, refs, low participation costs etc are all in place to help that happen. That's the job of the NRL, State league and LC's in some cities.
NRL clubs job is to raise the profile of the game in their region and connect with their communities to hopefully get kids to dream of one daying playing in the top flight of the game.

Until the NRL fund NRLVIC a decent amount nothing will change in grassroots in Victoria, regardless of how many titles the storm win.

 

[greenBV4]

Its not NRL's clubs jobs to get kids playing rugby league and ensure the DO's, schools prgrams, infrastructure, coaching, refs, low participation costs etc are all in place to help that happen. That's the job of the NRL, State league and LC's in some cities.
NRL clubs job is to raise the profile of the game in their region and connect with their communities to hopefully get kids to dream of one daying playing in the top flight of the game.

Until the NRL fund NRLVIC a decent amount nothing will change in grassroots in Victoria, regardless of how many titles the storm win.

and despite the lacklustre funding from the NRL, the juniors situation isn't as stagnant as Donkey would have everyone believe

"Rugby league in Victoria has experienced enormous growth over the last 10 years, with participation rates increasing by more than 300 per cent over that time. Across the 24 rugby league clubs in metropolitan and regional Victoria, nearly one in five players are female"

- https://www.melbournestorm.com.au/n...league-receives-landmark-funding-in-victoria/

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

and despite the lacklustre funding from the NRL, the juniors situation isn't as stagnant as Donkey would have everyone believe

"Rugby league in Victoria has experienced enormous growth over the last 10 years, with participation rates increasing by more than 300 per cent over that time. Across the 24 rugby league clubs in metropolitan and regional Victoria, nearly one in five players are female"

- https://www.melbournestorm.com.au/n...league-receives-landmark-funding-in-victoria/

So 2,800 are male and 700 are female.

Big bloody whoop.

Perth experienced a far greater growth than that in 1995.

Queensland has 62,000 registered players. Some of whom go on to play in the NRL and represent Australia.

Even Cam Smith's kid plays fumbleball. Victoria is a waste of time and money.

 

[Perth Red]

and despite the lacklustre funding from the NRL, the juniors situation isn't as stagnant as Donkey would have everyone believe

"Rugby league in Victoria has experienced enormous growth over the last 10 years, with participation rates increasing by more than 300 per cent over that time. Across the 24 rugby league clubs in metropolitan and regional Victoria, nearly one in five players are female"

- https://www.melbournestorm.com.au/n...league-receives-landmark-funding-in-victoria/

Yes you have to look at the start point to judge the total! Perth has gone from 10,000 down to 500 up to 3500 over the last 30 years. You could say 3500 isnt many, but considering it dropped to 500 it isnt bad, and it continues to grow in some areas.

 

[reanimate]

Even Cam Smith's kid plays fumbleball. Victoria is a waste of time and money.

Are you saying that because he’s done some form of Auskick? I think almost every kid in Victoria does that at one point.

 

[The Great Dane]

Well depends on if you think obesity and diabetes, dementia, heart disease etc is something the Govt should care about in its population I suppose. Yes we all have personal responsibility but in reality people are generally stupid lol. We know the sht we are doing to ourselves but do it anyway. If the Govt can in any way counterbalance that stupidity without taking away freedom of choice where possible then it maybe isnt such a bad thing. I mean how frickin dumb do you have to be to drink cans of soft drink with 16 teaspoons of sugar in it????

How frickin dumb do you have to be to play a game where for 80 minutes you violently run into each other at full speed over and over and risk maiming, brain damage, and death as a result????
See you can do it with everything and anything, so be careful when casting those stones because they might just come back at you...

If you give other people, through the power of the government, the power to decide what is best for others they naturally do two things, 1. get rid of everything they don't understand, 2. get rid of everything that risks peoples capability to be good little tax payers. In other words it is a slippery slope that eventually gets rid of everything fun.

The governments only jobs should be to facilitate the spread of power in society, keep the peace, mange shared resources, and most importantly protect people's freedoms.
Anything beyond that is an overreach that is nobodies business except the individuals' and I don't accept that banning the advertisement of a product and then taxing it out of existence isn't both a massive cash grab and taking away people's freedom of choice.

 

[The Great Dane]

So 2,800 are male and 700 are female.

Big bloody whoop.

Perth experienced a far greater growth than that in 1995.

Queensland has 62,000 registered players. Some of whom go on to play in the NRL and represent Australia.

Even Cam Smith's kid plays fumbleball. Victoria is a waste of time and money.

Sigh... This is such backwards logic, and f**king boring as well.

What do you think Queensland's (or Australia's in general) participation numbers were like in the 1910s through 30s, you know, before it was an establish and popular sport. . . Probably pretty shit right!

Now imagine if there was some wanker going around back then saying 'look at the participation numbers for this brand new sport that nobodies ever heard of, they're shit, so we shouldn't even bother'. Now imagine if everybody listened to him, none of the growth that came latter and lead to that sport growing into what it is today would have happened!

Queensland wouldn't have 62k registered players, no pro clubs, no billion dollar contracts, nothing.

In this case, when it comes to Vic, SA, WA, etc, etc, you are being that wanker!

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Sigh... This is such backwards logic, and f**king boring as well.

What do you think Queensland's (or Australia's in general) participation numbers were like in the 1910s through 30s, you know, before it was an establish and popular sport. . . Probably pretty shit right!

Now imagine if there was some wanker going around back then saying 'look at the participation numbers for this brand new sport that nobodies ever heard of, they're shit, so we shouldn't even bother'. Now imagine if everybody listened to him, none of the growth that came latter and lead to that sport growing into what it is today would have happened!

Queensland wouldn't have 62k registered players, no pro clubs, no billion dollar contracts, nothing.

In this case, when it comes to Vic, SA, WA, etc, etc, you are being that wanker!

RL was the dominant sport in Queensland in the 10s through to the 30s, so what you're saying makes no sense. At one stage RU wasn't even played up here. RL overtook RU in Queensland overnight in 1909 after RU knocked fumbleball off its perch in the 1880s/1890s. You really don't know the history of the game up here.

The fumbleball states chose to remain loyal to fumbleball and have remained that way ever since. What a surprise!

It's a bit far-fetched and silly to suggest that Victorians have never heard of RL. They know it exists. They just don't care. Ramming it down their throats won't make them give up fumbleball for RL. It will just lead to them telling you to get stuffed because fumbleball is a religion down there that must be worshipped. It's a cultural battle that cannot be won. You're not going to succeed where everyone else has failed since 1850.

An NRL team in each of these cities is not a magical fix. Any gains from them would be minimal at best and surpassed by what can be achieved with more teams in Brisbane and NZ. Strengthening Brisbane and NZ improves Origin/Test Football and adds money to the TV rights. There's a reason Ch9 and Foxtel want Brisbane 2 but couldn't be bothered with Perth or Adelaide. Media analyst Colin Smith pointed out the benefits Brisbane 3 and NZ 2. He didn't even list Adelaide or Perth.

 

[greenBV4]

Are you saying that because he’s done some form of Auskick? I think almost every kid in Victoria does that at one point.

Even in NSW a good majority of kids will have played Auskick at one point, I did, as did probably 90% of the sports minded kids at my school, and that was right up on the North Coast

Its because the AFL comes to you, it doesn't wait for you to come to them like the NRL

Also, Smith is a pretty avid Hawks supporter, so it doesnt surprise me his kid has played AFL either

 

[reanimate]

RL was the dominant sport in Queensland in the 10s through to the 30s, so what you're saying makes no sense. At one stage RU wasn't even played up here. RL overtook RU in Queensland overnight in 1909 after RU knocked fumbleball off its perch in the 1880s/1890s. You really don't know the history of the game up here.

The fumbleball states chose to remain loyal to fumbleball and have remained that way ever since. What a surprise!

It's a bit far-fetched and silly to suggest that Victorians have never heard of RL. They know it exists. They just don't care. Ramming it down their throats won't make them give up fumbleball for RL. It will just lead to them telling you to get stuffed because fumbleball is a religion down there that must be worshipped. It's a cultural battle that cannot be won. You're not going to succeed where everyone else has failed since 1850.

An NRL team in each of these cities is not a magical fix. Any gains from them would be minimal at best and surpassed by what can be achieved with more teams in Brisbane and NZ. Strengthening Brisbane and NZ improves Origin/Test Football and adds money to the TV rights. There's a reason Ch9 and Foxtel want Brisbane 2 but couldn't be bothered with Perth or Adelaide. Media analyst Colin Smith pointed out the benefits Brisbane 3 and NZ 2. He didn't even list Adelaide or Perth.

I don't disagree with you at all when it comes to the importance of Brisbane 2, Bris3 and NZ2, they're all must haves. Just as important though are Adelaide and Perth (and Melbourne, there should be a Melbourne 2 one day as well). The longterm investment in those areas is what will pay off. Unfortunately, we're so far behind there that we'll have to take a top down and bottom up approach at the same time. We don't have the time to spend on juniors and pathways for 20-30 years before bringing in a full time NRL club, they both need to happen at the same time, otherwise we'll be so far behind the AFL we won't have much chance of becoming the clear number 1 in the country ever again.

The AFL has been taking this approach in NSW and QLD. The idea that you'd be getting a good number of AFL players coming out of Palm Beach Currumbin High would have been a total joke a few decades ago, now it's reality. Also, a few years ago the Swans brought a player that had come out of the Newcastle system into their first grade squad. Newcastle! I never thought I'd see the day where that was happening, yet here we are.

The idea that it's a cultural battle that cannot be won is incorrect. The AFL hasn't thrown their hands in the air and given up on the idea on cracking the market in NSW and QLD and neither should we. As it is, the NRL development programs in the AFL states are jokes. It's no wonder there's only 3500 RL players in Victoria when the programs to encourage growth there are so poor. If the NRL invested as heavily in development in Victoria (and SA and WA) as the AFL did in NSW and QLD, the two games would be a lot more equal in their respective enemy's territory.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

I don't disagree with you at all when it comes to the importance of Brisbane 2, Bris3 and NZ2, they're all must haves. Just as important though are Adelaide and Perth (and Melbourne, there should be a Melbourne 2 one day as well). The longterm investment in those areas is what will pay off. Unfortunately, we're so far behind there that we'll have to take a top down and bottom up approach at the same time. We don't have the time to spend on juniors and pathways for 20-30 years before bringing in a full time NRL club, they both need to happen at the same time, otherwise we'll be so far behind the AFL we won't have much chance of becoming the clear number 1 in the country ever again.

The AFL has been taking this approach in NSW and QLD. The idea that you'd be getting a good number of AFL players coming out of Palm Beach Currumbin High would have been a total joke a few decades ago, now it's reality. Also, a few years ago the Swans brought a player that had come out of the Newcastle system into their first grade squad. Newcastle! I never thought I'd see the day where that was happening, yet here we are.

The idea that it's a cultural battle that cannot be won is incorrect. The AFL hasn't thrown their hands in the air and given up on the idea on cracking the market in NSW and QLD and neither should we. As it is, the NRL development programs in the AFL states are jokes. It's no wonder there's only 3500 RL players in Victoria when the programs to encourage growth there are so poor. If the NRL invested as heavily in development in Victoria (and SA and WA) as the AFL did in NSW and QLD, the two games would be a lot more equal in their respective enemy's territory.

The cultural difference can be traced back to the origin of both games and when they were introduced to each market.

Fumbleball was the main game in Queensland and NSW until RU was introduced in the late 1800s, then RL took over in 1908. RL wasn’t introduced into WA until the 1950s and SA until the 1970s. RL in Victoria dates back to a similar time frame. Fumbleball has been the unchallenged king in those states since the mid-19th century. People from those states view RL as "unAustralian" and "bogan".

RU and RL succeeded in Queensland and NSW because both colonies/states were keen to retain cultural ties with Britain. The other colonies/states wanted to nothing to do with the mother country so they embraced the local game. This attitude still exists to some extent.

I think the safest bet for Adelaide and Perth is partial relocation. The NRL doesn't want too many teams and it cannot accommodate Adelaide and Perth while also giving Brisbane and NZ what they need. A full time team in Adelaide and Perth would struggle on and oftf he field. It would be better for the ARLC to form a strategy with two Sydney clubs to adopt one city each and assign half of their home games to that area. Wests to take six games to Perth, Souths to take six to Adelaide. That way you have a national footprint with room to bring in Brisbnre 2, NZ 2, Brisbane 3 and NZ 3.

Western Tigers and Southern Rabbitohs.

 

[ReddFelon]

The cultural difference can be traced back to the origin of both games and when they were introduced to each market.

Fumbleball was the main game in Queensland and NSW until RU was introduced in the late 1800s, then RL took over in 1908. RL wasn’t introduced into WA until the 1950s and SA until the 1970s. RL in Victoria dates back to a similar time frame. Fumbleball has been the unchallenged king in those states since the mid-19th century. People from those states view RL as "unAustralian" and "bogan".

RU and RL succeeded in Queensland and NSW because both colonies/states were keen to retain cultural ties with Britain. The other colonies/states wanted to nothing to do with the mother country so they embraced the local game. This attitude still exists to some extent.

I think the safest bet for Adelaide and Perth is partial relocation. The NRL doesn't want too many teams and it cannot accommodate Adelaide and Perth while also giving Brisbane and NZ what they need. A full time team in Adelaide and Perth would struggle on and oftf he field. It would be better for the ARLC to form a strategy with two Sydney clubs to adopt one city each and assign half of their home games to that area. Wests to take six games to Perth, Souths to take six to Adelaide. That way you have a national footprint with room to bring in Brisbnre 2, NZ 2, Brisbane 3 and NZ 3.

Western Tigers and Southern Rabbitohs.

The original WAFA clubs were Rugby Union clubs established in the 1870s and didn't switch codes until the 1890s. "mid-19th century", you talk a whole lot of shit in this regard.

 

[Fangs]

Brisbane Snakes looking pretty good atm

 

[reanimate]

The cultural difference can be traced back to the origin of both games and when they were introduced to each market.

Fumbleball was the main game in Queensland and NSW until RU was introduced in the late 1800s, then RL took over in 1908. RL wasn’t introduced into WA until the 1950s and SA until the 1970s. RL in Victoria dates back to a similar time frame. Fumbleball has been the unchallenged king in those states since the mid-19th century. People from those states view RL as "unAustralian" and "bogan".

RU and RL succeeded in Queensland and NSW because both colonies/states were keen to retain cultural ties with Britain. The other colonies/states wanted to nothing to do with the mother country so they embraced the local game. This attitude still exists to some extent.

It's an attitude that can be changed though, as the AFL's results in NSW and QLD can attest. When I was younger, it was unthinkable you'd admit to watching or playing AFL, it was a wusses' sport and a weird Victorian hobby. That attitude still persists to some degree, but it's nowhere near what it used to be. The attitude can be changed in the AFL states, just as they're working on changing attitudes here. Marketing and constant effort works wonders.

I think the safest bet for Adelaide and Perth is partial relocation. The NRL doesn't want too many teams and it cannot accommodate Adelaide and Perth while also giving Brisbane and NZ what they need. A full time team in Adelaide and Perth would struggle on and oftf he field. It would be better for the ARLC to form a strategy with two Sydney clubs to adopt one city each and assign half of their home games to that area. Wests to take six games to Perth, Souths to take six to Adelaide. That way you have a national footprint with room to bring in Brisbnre 2, NZ 2, Brisbane 3 and NZ 3.

Western Tigers and Southern Rabbitohs.

You're right that more games should be taken to both cities on a regular basis until they get a full time team, but a relocation should be all in or not done at all. The AFL has shown how it should be done; all games played in the club's new city and memberships marketed and sold to the old city's fanbase to keep them feeling included and a part of the club's continued story.

 

[reanimate]

Even in NSW a good majority of kids will have played Auskick at one point, I did, as did probably 90% of the sports minded kids at my school, and that was right up on the North Coast

Its because the AFL comes to you, it doesn't wait for you to come to them like the NRL

Also, Smith is a pretty avid Hawks supporter, so it doesnt surprise me his kid has played AFL either

I didn't play it, but the Swans did visit my school and put on some AFL clinic in the 90s. You're right about the AFL coming to you, they're really good at constantly approaching schools with offers for programs and equipment and developing relationships with staff and school bodies.

 

[The Great Dane]

RL was the dominant sport in Queensland in the 10s through to the 30s, so what you're saying makes no sense. At one stage RU wasn't even played up here. RL overtook RU in Queensland overnight in 1909 after RU knocked fumbleball off its perch in the 1880s/1890s. You really don't know the history of the game up here.

The fumbleball states chose to remain loyal to fumbleball and have remained that way ever since. What a surprise!

I know my history just fine thank you.

For example I know that that "one stage RU wasn't even played" was called WW1, and that RL was actually struggling to gain a foothold in Qld (and NSW to a lesser extent) until RU decided to suspend their top competitions during it, and the impact of suspending their competition for so long was so damaging in Qld that the QRU was actually forced to dissolve in 1919.

I also know that history is written by the victors, and that the idea that RL was 'dominant' in Qld (or NSW BTW) from day one is a one sided telling of history that lionises the sport, when really RL didn't start to become truly dominant until after WWII, and RU was very competitive for decades after that.

It's a bit far-fetched and silly to suggest that Victorians have never heard of RL. They know it exists. They just don't care. Ramming it down their throats won't make them give up fumbleball for RL. It will just lead to them telling you to get stuffed because fumbleball is a religion down there that must be worshipped. It's a cultural battle that cannot be won. You're not going to succeed where everyone else has failed since 1850.

Firstly, I never said Victorians haven't heard of RL, but considering my general experience on the wrong side of the "Barassi line" and how many people don't realise RL and RU are actually two different sports, I'd actually say that isn't that far fetched at all, especially if we are talking about 20 years ago before the Storm.

Secondly, "ramming it down their throats" is exactly what has been so successful for the Swans, and how American Football, and later basketball, took out "America's favorite past time", and the people you are trying to convert aren't the dyed in the wool AFL fans anyway.

Finally, people said the exact same things about Sydney when the Swans relocated, and look at them now.

An NRL team in each of these cities is not a magical fix. Any gains from them would be minimal at best and surpassed by what can be achieved with more teams in Brisbane and NZ. Strengthening Brisbane and NZ improves Origin/Test Football and adds money to the TV rights. There's a reason Ch9 and Foxtel want Brisbane 2 but couldn't be bothered with Perth or Adelaide. Media analyst Colin Smith pointed out the benefits Brisbane 3 and NZ 2. He didn't even list Adelaide or Perth.

I never said they would be a magical fix, it'd be a long slow process of building a fan base that will take generations to have significant impact, but once the work is done it'll pay dividends.

Here's the thing though, putting more teams in Brisbane and to a lesser extent NZ (though NZ is more complex), won't be a magical fix either.
In fact the whole point of a second Brisbane team isn't to build a new fan base for the sport, it's to try and get people that are already fans more engaged with the NRL as a product, and to get that market to watch two games a week in large numbers instead of one. In other words it's all about a potential get rich quick scheme (most of the benefits of which will go to the broadcasters and not the sport mind you), and not actually about growing the sport in any significant way.

It's also not as sure a bet as you, and many others, like to make out. One f**k up and you could end up with a redheaded stepchild of a club that totally fails to capture the imaginations of the people of Brisbane and ends up sucking up resources for generations just like many other expansion clubs would.

Also you don't have a clue what Fox or Nine want, or why they may want it, so stop pretending that you do, and who f**king cares what Colin Smith thinks.
The guy only cares about what he thinks will increase the value of the next TV rights deals, he never thinks about the long term impacts, the impacts of TV being a dying medium, or even what the deal after that should look like, it's all about maximising income as much as possible in the short term.

 

[The Great Dane]

I didn't play it, but the Swans did visit my school and put on some AFL clinic in the 90s. You're right about the AFL coming to you, they're really good at constantly approaching schools with offers for programs and equipment and developing relationships with staff and school bodies.

Here's a classic example- With the help of the ACT gov they went around giving schools in the ACT free sets of new posts, here's the thing though a lot of schools in the ACT don't have ovals, so they just put them up on the rectangular fields.

I don't know for certain why they would do that, but I reckon they did it just because every time people see those posts they think about Aussie Rules and the AFL instead of the rectangular sports. . .

Because they were kind of useless on rectangular fields, and it was pretty silly, most of the schools that got them ended up replacing them pretty quickly, but there's still a school just around the corner from me that still has them up, and I'd bet there're still places across the ACT where it's the same.

There used to be some smart kids that would tie their jumpers together then tie them across the posts to make a cross bar as well, which I thought was pretty smart, and funny, but I have't seen the polyester crossbars for a while, but then again I can't remember the last time I walked past there and saw the kids using white balls, or running with the ball instead of bouncing it either... Let's put it this way 10-20 years from now all the rectangular sports are going to be hurting really bad if things don't change soon.

 

[The Great Dane]

The original WAFA clubs were Rugby Union clubs established in the 1870s and didn't switch codes until the 1890s. "mid-19th century", you talk a whole lot of shit in this regard.

Are you sure it's just in this regard?