Rationalisation of Sydney

[Stallion]

Just another way of looking at this whole thing but what if this is Greenberg sounding out a warning as part of a much larger expansion plan?

What if they have identified a 10-15 year plan where they bring in 2 new clubs for the next TV deal which brings in the extra game, and the warning is that the clubs have 10-15 years from that point to shape up/put forward cases for why they should remain in location, EOI for a potential move to any club willing and they outline the areas they want to move a team to, or for certain clubs to adjust their coverage areas?

Would suggest a warning for the monopoly defending Broncos to get used to another new Brisbane based team and perhaps the Manly and Newcastle clubs to get used to a new derby rivalry in the form of the Central Coast Bears.Two very doable additions that will consolidate the competition and significantly increase tv revenues along with attendances. Both areas with juniors to develop and infrastructure in place. THEN : a concerted effort to develop code in WA for the eventual entry of the West Coast Pirates and take your pick for another expansion club from NZ, Adelaide or Melbourne with appropriate development , timing and targeting with diligence in place. That's the logical path but that's no guarantee in this scenario.

 

[MrE_Assassin]

Would suggest a warning for the monopoly defending Broncos to get used to another new Brisbane based team and perhaps the Manly and Newcastle clubs to get used to a new derby rivalry in the form of the Central Coast Bears.Two very doable additions that will consolidate the competition and significantly increase tv revenues along with attendances. Both areas with juniors to develope and infrastructure in place. THEN : a concerted effort to develop code in WA for the evetual entry of the West Coast Pirates and take your pick for another expansion club from NZ, Adelaide or Melbourne with appropriate development , timing and targeting with diligence in place. That's the logical path but that's no guarantee in this scenario.

I see your opinion, however I see it going the other way. A new club/licence to be allocated to WA and Brisbane with relocation/consolidation at the next bracket which sees some teams relocate/restructure or collapse if no longer viable to free the licences up for other regions like CC, NZ2, etc.

 

[Stallion]

If we had 7 of top programs on TV than ratings weren't any better on TV.

If you take into account this was happening 30 years ago. Wow

A record TV deal - $90m

Unlike what others think the SL war really farked us up.

Excellent information tri_colours! That clearly shows a greater presence of this unique and envied competition in decades gone by.

 

[MrE_Assassin]

I only say this based on a lot of the talk from the chiefs of the game basically indicating that Bris & WA are square in the sights of the NRL, not out of disrespect for your opinion.

 

[Stallion]

I see your opinion, however I see it going the other way. A new club/licence to be allocated to WA and Brisbane with relocation/consolidation at the next bracket which sees some teams relocate/restructure or collapse if no longer viable to free the licences up for other regions like CC, NZ2, etc.

Glad you see the point . The other version promotes preemptive weakening of the code with unrest and infighting. That is not necessary. Additional clubs in underused areas like Brisbane and Northern Sydney/Central Coast are logical and strengthen the competition with less expansion investment. The money gained should bolster the coffers for further genuine expansion clubs as time goes on. It's a prudent way of doing expansion and consolidating this damaged competition that has suffered through a flawed superleague peace "agreement".

 

[Stallion]

I only say this based on a lot of the talk from the chiefs of the game basically indicating that Bris & WA are square in the sights of the NRL, not out of disrespect for your opinion.

That's fine. And it's a productive discourse we are doing. This game has been damaged courtesy of superleague and its necessary to gain back lost ground and genuinely expand. Brisbane2 and Perth are in the mix. BRISBANE 2 a MUST DO NOW*ASAP and Perth perhaps later with further development but In the interim an easier addition in the North Sydney /Central Coast Bears would gain the extra game tv revenue and fanbases .

 

[MrE_Assassin]

That's fine. And it's a productive discourse we are doing. This game has been damaged courtesy of superleague and its necessary to gain back lost ground and genuinely expand. Brisbane2 and Perth are in the mix. BRISBANE 2 a MUST DO NOW*ASAP and Perth perhaps later with further development but In the interim an easier addition in the North Sydney /Central Coast Bears would gain the extra game tv revenue and fanbases .

No disrespect but I still don’t agree that CC would come before WA but I guess that’s where we’re always going to disagree.

With everything that’s being said about needing to push into new areas I don’t see the NRL opting for CC unless another NSW/Sydney club were to collapse or relocate. New license would probably go to new clubs. Just my opinion, and like arseholes, everybody has one.

 

[Stallion]

No disrespect but I still don’t agree that CC would come before WA but I guess that’s where we’re always going to disagree.

With everything that’s being said about needing to push into new areas I don’t see the NRL opting for CC unless another NSW/Sydney club were to collapse or relocate. New license would probably go to new clubs. Just my opinion, and like arseholes, everybody has one.

Fair enough. It's more of a consolidation and gaining back lost territory move in the Bears scenario. It's also set up ready to succeed when you think about infrastructure and juniors along with instant local.derbies. But yes we dissagree on when this should occur. And the way the league procrastinates it's probably not in their minds but should be. Perth is very valid however more of a risk. Probably a greater junior base and things may escalate for the West Coast Pirates. If so then I'm happy for them to jump the queue. But the Bears(representing north Sydney & Central coast ) are a surefire winner in shoring up the Eastern seaboard. Both are worthy additions if they are ready. Brisbane2 a MUST DO ASAP!

 

[greenBV4]

personally I think it would be doomed to fail, but with the suggestions of moving a Sydney team to Brisbane, I was wondering what Sydney club, if any, had the most support up there and would have the most success (ignoring whether or not they are going well in Sydney)?

 

[MrE_Assassin]

personally I think it would be doomed to fail, but with the suggestions of moving a Sydney team to Brisbane, I was wondering what Sydney club, if any, had the most support up there and would have the most success (ignoring whether or not they are going well in Sydney)?

If we're talking about solely in Brisbane, I would argue that no Sydney team does well in Brisbane or has much support. Brisbane has always had that Us vs Them mentality and an ex-Sydney team wouldn't draw much support if it uprooted and went North. As someone who has lived in Brisbane and watched Sydney teams play at Suncorp, its very much a mini-Origin vibe and the Broncos supporters come out in droves.

QLD'ers, as much as I despise them (especially at origin time), are some of the most fiercely patriotic fans going round. The only reason Melbourne is well liked up there is because it's full of QLD'ers (or was). The only club that will survive (and not necessarily thrive) in Brisbane is another QLD-born club.

 

[Stallion]

If we're talking about solely in Brisbane, I would argue that no Sydney team does well in Brisbane or has much support. Brisbane has always had that Us vs Them mentality and an ex-Sydney team wouldn't draw much support if it uprooted and went North. As someone who has lived in Brisbane and watched Sydney teams play at Suncorp, its very much a mini-Origin vibe and the Broncos supporters come out in droves.

QLD'ers, as much as I despise them (especially at origin time), are some of the most fiercely patriotic fans going round. The only reason Melbourne is well liked up there is because it's full of QLD'ers (or was). The only club that will survive (and not necessarily thrive) in Brisbane is another QLD-born club.

Absolutely. Could not agree more MrE_Assassin! I would also suggest the manipulative and conspiring Broncos know this and would welcome another doomed club in their midst. Once again they maintain their monopoly. Remembering their immense media connections and a flawed superleague agreement has maintained their monopoly to date. Right now the Broncos are promoting the infighting within Sydney clubs as part of their plan to undermine genuine moves for a much needed second Brisbane club with Brisbane origins.

 

[franklin2323]

If you are doing a criteria as mentioned in the media.. Would anyone be lower than GC?

 

[Stallion]

If you are doing a criteria as mentioned in the media.. Would anyone be lower than GC?

The GC angle will give the Broncos an opposing argument that the GC are doing a must do role in southern Qld and northern NSW ( which they are ). So this will go against such a move and rightly so. But essentially the Broncos don't want another genuine rival in Brisbane which is the real shame and tact of this greedy club.

 

[franklin2323]

The GC angle will give the Broncos an opposing argument that the GC are doing a must do role in southern Qld and northern NSW ( which they are ). So this will go against such a move and rightly so. But essentially the Broncos don't want another genuine rival in Brisbane which is the real shame and tact of this greedy club.

No doubt they are but Sydney teams get wrongfully blamed for bringing the comp down.

There is no clear stand out bid from Brisbane. Perth have an SG Ball team but then go back.

Both should be setup in a state comp to have structure. Even if NRL said we are taking x sydney team licence and giving it too Brisbane, Perth etc without the structures in. Would be a fail

 

[The Charlatan]

Really the only Sydney teams I believe would be in the firing line are Manly, Cronulla and Wests. And even then they all have some pretty strong reasons why they wouldn't be relocated as well.

Manly are financially struggling, however are the only presence north of Sydney up to the Hunter.

Cronulla seem to be routinely financially crippled, even with their development, though I am not sure it is wise to relocate a club that has been pummeled with scandal, I don't think they'll be well received in a new location.

Wests seem to still be nomads, playing at five "home" locations over the course of the year, and have done also last year, and while they possibly may be reluctant to do so in order to present themselves as a greater Sydney (in geographical terms,) team, they don't appear to cover an area as such, they don't embrace the Macarthur region and they play casually at Leichhardt also. Wests Ashfield's majority ownership also complicates things as they would want the team playing geographically close to their club. Conversely, they have already merged and given something up for the betterment of the game, have a large fan base, have a well valued jersey and corporate sponsorship and are doing financially well.

Souths, Easts, Canterbury, Parra and St. George will not be moved on due to heritage and defined boundaries.

Penrith is there for a presence in Western Sydney and it would be folly to give that area and it's junior nursery up.

 

[Stallion]

Really the only Sydney teams I believe would be in the firing line are Manly, Cronulla and Wests. And even then they all have some pretty strong reasons why they wouldn't be relocated as well.

Manly are financially struggling, however are the only presence north of Sydney up to the Hunter.

Cronulla seem to be routinely financially crippled, even with their development, though I am not sure it is wise to relocate a club that has been pummeled with scandal, I don't think they'll be well received in a new location.

Wests seem to still be nomads, playing at five "home" locations over the course of the year, and have done also last year, and while they possibly may be reluctant to do so in order to present themselves as a greater Sydney (in geographical terms,) team, they don't appear to cover an area as such, they don't embrace the Macarthur region and they play casually at Leichhardt also. Wests Ashfield's majority ownership also complicates things as they would want the team playing geographically close to their club. Conversely, they have already merged and given something up for the betterment of the game, have a large fan base, have a well valued jersey and corporate sponsorship and are doing financially well.

Souths, Easts, Canterbury, Parra and St. George will not be moved on due to heritage and defined boundaries.

Penrith is there for a presence in Western Sydney and it would be folly to give that area and it's junior nursery up.

All very logical arguments and the Broncos know this. They will deflect, stall, delay and manipulate angles purely to continue their monopoly of Brisbane. It's clear a Brisbane based entity is the only way for a successful Brisbane 2 club. This is not what the Broncos are after. It's a battle and hopefully the league can see through this selfish Broncos stance and give Brisbane a much needed 2nd club with its origins from Brisbane. Perhaps getting the corporate backers of the Broncos involved and seeing the merits of a genuine local rivalry with the increasedetails business that would arise might be a way forward. But it's the Broncos that are the opponent of a truelly Brisbane based 2nd team. That's for certain and history has proved this. Hope things change ! Plans for two additional clubs is the prudent way to go first his competition. Enough of the suffering and infighting plus losing established fan bases. Think we are sick of it!

 

[taipan]

East's boundary really overlap Souths.Easts have the money and now I suppose the new Allianz.But then Allianz will be there to pressure other clubs to use it.

Heritage I doubt will come into it.The Bears had the heritage, ditto Tigers and Wests, and they don't exist in one shape or form. Yes the Sharks could be merged with the Dragons, and likewise the Eels with the Dogs.Manly is vulnerable also.

Judging by what's happened in the last few years, there is more than one club involved in scandals Else the Telegraph would have been out of business years ago.
No doubt the criteria will encompass long term financial viability, stadium infrastructure,membership,juniors,sposnsorship base, population growth in the area and crowds.Also where are the bulk of their fans located, within the Sydney metro area.

There is still the possibility with a strengthened lower tier comp in Qld and NSW, there will be the numbers for an 18 team comp.Kent has his views on criteria, but criteria has always to my knowledge been part of the expansion equation.He isn't the final arbiter thank heavens, with his agendas.

 

[Stallion]

East's boundary really overlap Souths.Easts have the money and now I suppose the new Allianz.But then Allianz will be there to pressure other clubs to use it.

Heritage I doubt will come into it.The Bears had the heritage, ditto Tigers and Wests, and they don't exist in one shape or form. Yes the Sharks could be merged with the Dragons, and likewise the Eels with the Dogs.Manly is vulnerable also.

Judging by what's happened in the last few years, there is more than one club involved in scandals Else the Telegraph would have been out of business years ago.
No doubt the criteria will encompass long term financial viability, stadium infrastructure,membership,juniors,sposnsorship base, population growth in the area and crowds.Also where are the bulk of their fans located, within the Sydney metro area.

There is still the possibility with a strengthened lower tier comp in Qld and NSW, there will be the numbers for an 18 team comp.Kent has his views on criteria, but criteria has always to my knowledge been part of the expansion equation.He isn't the final arbiter thank heavens, with his agendas.

There are enough quality players! That argument is a furphy. New clubs bring more aspiring juniors!

 

[The Charlatan]

East's boundary really overlap Souths.Easts have the money and now I suppose the new Allianz.But then Allianz will be there to pressure other clubs to use it.

Heritage I doubt will come into it.The Bears had the heritage, ditto Tigers and Wests, and they don't exist in one shape or form. Yes the Sharks could be merged with the Dragons, and likewise the Eels with the Dogs.Manly is vulnerable also.

Judging by what's happened in the last few years, there is more than one club involved in scandals Else the Telegraph would have been out of business years ago.
No doubt the criteria will encompass long term financial viability, stadium infrastructure,membership,juniors,sposnsorship base, population growth in the area and crowds.Also where are the bulk of their fans located, within the Sydney metro area.

There is still the possibility with a strengthened lower tier comp in Qld and NSW, there will be the numbers for an 18 team comp.Kent has his views on criteria, but criteria has always to my knowledge been part of the expansion equation.He isn't the final arbiter thank heavens, with his agendas.

Easts and Souths will never move as they have a strong brand and corporate backing. Parramatta are their own city, Canterbury are a well off club. Penrith have strong backing from a leagues club conglomerate. Of the six clubs I mentioned would be unlikely to be moved St. George is the only one I know of that appears to struggle financially.

If finances and corporate backing are the main criteria then Manly, Cronulla and the Dragons are probably in the biggest trouble.

 

[Stallion]

Unfortunately this thread is poorly named "Irrationalisation...."
The whole topic is negative and suits the wishes of the Broncos and people seeking to further weaken this competition. Wondering if we can create a thread called :
"Consolidation and Genuine expansion of the NRL"
Now that would lead to a positive discourse !