Rationalisation of Sydney

[Walter sobchak]

I just don't see teams de-merging just to re-merge with a different team, right pairing or not those merged teams are one team now and their fates are sealed together.

“Fates are sealed together” as in some of these clubs are in big financial trouble and may even not be around in say 10 years time?

 

[Stallion]

Thank you for answering the question honesty. So you've agreed that if there is no method of measuring fans that don't contribute financially to a club through attending matches or buying memberships and merchandise.



What information are you using as a basis to claim that the Bears have widespread support?

We can only fundamentally disagree on our interpretation of actual information so we don't have a disagreement until you can show me the information that you base your claims on and if the information is true and credible then you may find that I do agree with you.

The evidence comes from over 100 years of existence. The fact that this club was amongst the television growth person of the 70s & 80/90s points to widespread support for all sorts of reasons : colours, Bears motif, location, rivalries etc....These things matter to fans. You can't see this ? Others can!

 

[Stallion]

Thank you for answering the question honesty. So you've agreed that if there is no method of measuring fans that don't contribute financially to a club through attending matches or buying memberships and merchandise.



What information are you using as a basis to claim that the Bears have widespread support?

We can only fundamentally disagree on our interpretation of actual information so we don't have a disagreement until you can show me the information that you base your claims on and if the information is true and credible then you may find that I do agree with you.

The Bears existed in the top flight for many years. They were part of the television growth era of the 70s, 80s &90s. This gave the club widespread support. This widespread support is harnessed by merchandise, fans, potential memberships and general knowledge that Bears were kicked out of the NRL. Their support is there and even more support would be on its way with the Central Coast being involved. This is a license to.print money waiting to be unveiled. Unfortunately some don't see this.

 

[greenBV4]

“Fates are sealed together” as in some of these clubs are in big financial trouble and may even not be around in say 10 years time?

Not necessarily, more so just that they've been one club for long enough now that I don't see any of the merged clubs going it alone

 

[MugaB]

Keeping on the mergers theme post the super league war would a merger between the dragons and sharks been better than the dragons and the steelers? Or what about a merger between the panthers and the eels?

No and no, for me, both sets of teams are the exact issue that the northern eagles failed experiment came about
Parramatta is its own 2nd city of sydney, and can stand alone, penrith is 30 mins west and provides a catchment even further west into country nsw, which is also why there are so many juniors coming from there, plus they are rivals.
And st george and cronulla are again vicious rivals, i think in my personal opinion there are far too many teams clustered in the south-inner city area
Roosters, Cronulla, Souths, bulldogs, dragons,
A smarter merger would be Cronulla and Roosters, an "Easts Sharks" or a "Souths Sharks" being souths and cronulla and have dragons based in wollongong (with 3-4 kogarah home games)
The tigers and magpies are a good merger coz they were never strictly bitter rivals, but to me a better merger would have been bulldogs and magpies, the south west sydney area isn't really represented as much by a concord based Tigers, with only a few games per year at the campbelltown area

 

[Walter sobchak]

No and no, for me, both sets of teams are the exact issue that the northern eagles failed experiment came about
Parramatta is its own 2nd city of sydney, and can stand alone, penrith is 30 mins west and provides a catchment even further west into country nsw, which is also why there are so many juniors coming from there, plus they are rivals.
And st george and cronulla are again vicious rivals, i think in my personal opinion there are far too many teams clustered in the south-inner city area
Roosters, Cronulla, Souths, bulldogs, dragons,
A smarter merger would be Cronulla and Roosters, an "Easts Sharks" or a "Souths Sharks" being souths and cronulla and have dragons based in wollongong (with 3-4 kogarah home games)
The tigers and magpies are a good merger coz they were never strictly bitter rivals, but to me a better merger would have been bulldogs and magpies, the south west sydney area isn't really represented as much by a concord based Tigers, with only a few games per year at the campbelltown area

i
What kind of population catchment area do the panthers have? Also who funds them?

 

[Stallion]

The merger chatter is a negative discourse. The sticking point being that dilution of clubs leads to loss of fans and the codes relevance on its biggest population area. The remedial action of introducing the Central Coast Bears is a definite win/win. I could entertain Wests Tigers becoming the Balmain Campbelltown Tigers and the West Coast Magpies? But other mergers are fraught with diluting the code's premier competition in its biggest population area.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

The evidence comes from over 100 years of existence. The fact that this club was amongst the television growth person of the 70s & 80/90s points to widespread support for all sorts of reasons : colours, Bears motif, location, rivalries etc....These things matter to fans. You can't see this ? Others can!

100 years of existence alone isn't evidence of widespread support. The Newtown Jets have existed for more than 100 years too and were also part of the television growth era; at least in the 70's and early 80's.

Colours: Are you seriously suggesting that this is evidence of widespread support? Are you sure you know what the word evidence means?

Bears motif: I assume you mean logo? Again, a logo is not evidence of widespread support.

Location & Rivalries: Are you sure you know what the word evidence means?

Try again mate and give me some evidence of their widespread support. Memberships, attendances, TV ratings, merchandise sales. Anything...

 

[titoelcolombiano]

The Bears existed in the top flight for many years. They were part of the television growth era of the 70s, 80s &90s. This gave the club widespread support. This widespread support is harnessed by merchandise, fans, potential memberships and general knowledge that Bears were kicked out of the NRL. Their support is there and even more support would be on its way with the Central Coast being involved. This is a license to.print money waiting to be unveiled. Unfortunately some don't see this.

Now we are getting somewhere. So you are saying that the widespread support of the Bears is evident by merchandise sales, potential memberships (I assume we are talking committed potential members).

Can you give me the numbers of these two to show that the Bears have widespread support? They must be mighty impressive numbers if you are so staunchly convinced by them.

What do you base the claim on that they are a licence to print money when 15 of the current 16 NRL clubs struggle to turn a profit?

 

[Stallion]

100 years of existence alone isn't evidence of widespread support. The Newtown Jets have existed for more than 100 years too and were also part of the television growth era; at least in the 70's and early 80's.

Colours: Are you seriously suggesting that this is evidence of widespread support? Are you sure you know what the word evidence means?

Bears motif: I assume you mean logo? Again, a logo is not evidence of widespread support.

Location & Rivalries: Are you sure you know what the word evidence means?

Try again mate and give me some evidence of their widespread support. Memberships, attendances, TV ratings, merchandise sales. Anything...

OMG. You honestly think longevity isn't a noted and respected aspect for a club?! And you have completely ignored the extremely influential tv expansion era of the 70s ,80s & 90s! OMG.Just going round in circles! OMG!

 

[Stallion]

Now we are getting somewhere. So you are saying that the widespread support of the Bears is evident by merchandise sales, potential memberships (I assume we are talking committed potential members).

Can you give me the numbers of these two to show that the Bears have widespread support? They must be mighty impressive numbers if you are so staunchly convinced by them.

What do you base the claim on that they are a licence to print money when 15 of the current 16 NRL clubs struggle to turn a profit?

Street savvy people are aware of the latent Bears support. You are not street savvy!

 

[MugaB]

i
What kind of population catchment area do the panthers have? Also who funds them?

Not sure what you mean? Or what your getting at, but as far as geographicaly representing sydney, there needs to be a team far west of Sydney, far south coast and far north/central coast/Hunter,
Dragons, Panthers and Knights provide this, everyone inside that surrounding border around sydney should be looking at what keeps them unique or viable, not to merge or relocate
(Thats if we are talking rationalisation of sydney)
Otherwise why bother going to perth or Adelaide or 2nd brisbane team, we already have the broncos there.
I would prefer the teams increase, not merge or relocate, 18-20 teams is possible now that NRL pays the wages,
1995 we had 20 teams but ARL wasn't financing each team. Its 25 years later, more teams, more juniors, more eyes watching and it all equals more fans

 

[Walter sobchak]

Not sure what you mean? Or what your getting at, but as far as geographicaly representing sydney, there needs to be a team far west of Sydney, far south coast and far north/central coast/Hunter,
Dragons, Panthers and Knights provide this, everyone inside that surrounding border around sydney should be looking at what keeps them unique or viable, not to merge or relocate
(Thats if we are talking rationalisation of sydney)
Otherwise why bother going to perth or Adelaide or 2nd brisbane team, we already have the broncos there.
I would prefer the teams increase, not merge or relocate, 18-20 teams is possible now that NRL pays the wages,
1995 we had 20 teams but ARL wasn't financing each team. Its 25 years later, more teams, more juniors, more eyes watching and it all equals more fans

How many people live In Penrith and it’s surrounding area and do the panthers have a rich backer like the guy at the roosters?

 

[MugaB]

How many people live In Penrith and it’s surrounding area and do the panthers have a rich backer like the guy at the roosters?

Again im not following why that matters, if your saying roosters are a must for the comp coz politis is rich, and penrith run on pokies/leagues club funded, then thats a point your assuming is realistically valid, but then Canterbury, and Parramatta are the same, souths is owned run by packer,
Im not sure what the difference in clubs whether they are rich with no catchments, or vast in catchments with leagues club funding, what does that have to do with rationalisation of sydney, nathan tinkler was rich. Doesnt mean the club will always be successful, most clubs have patches of success, Canterbury are this years example

Penriths catchment is St.marys stretching past bathurst, they've got 3 players from dubbo and a guy from wellington in the run on side this year, if your talking population vs memberships, then Penrith has 20k in members, where the reigning premiers "Sydney" have 15k, and funnily enough they had more before they won (around 16k) in comparison the major cities,
Melbourne have about 25k, brisbane 34k,
So If we went to Perth and Adelaide that would be possibly 20-25k each, most Sydney clubs are 20k, manly are 12k, at the lowest end and Souths at 30k are the highest end

Funnily enough even if you call yourself "Sydney" rather than Eastern Suburbs Roosters you still don't represent "Sydney"
Not when there's 30k of south supporters next door

 

[Walter sobchak]

Again im not following why that matters, if your saying roosters are a must for the comp coz politis is rich, and penrith run on pokies/leagues club funded, then thats a point your assuming is realistically valid, but then Canterbury, and Parramatta are the same, souths is owned run by packer,
Im not sure what the difference in clubs whether they are rich with no catchments, or vast in catchments with leagues club funding, what does that have to do with rationalisation of sydney, nathan tinkler was rich. Doesnt mean the club will always be successful, most clubs have patches of success, Canterbury are this years example

Mate I’m not saying or assuming anything. I was just trying to find out if the panthers had a large catchment area population wise and if it was a fast growing area of greater Sydney like I’m led to believe the Campbeltown area is.

I was also only trying to find out if the panthers were financially stable.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Street savvy people are aware of the latent Bears support. You are not street savvy!

Avoiding the question as usual. I'll ask you again.

You are saying that the widespread support of the Bears is evident by merchandise sales, potential memberships (I assume we are talking committed potential members).

1. Can you give me the numbers of these two to show that the Bears have widespread support? They must be mighty impressive numbers if you are so staunchly convinced by them.
2. What do you base the claim on that they are a licence to print money when 15 of the current 16 NRL clubs struggle to turn a profit?

 

[MugaB]

Mate I’m not saying or assuming anything. I was just trying to find out if the panthers had a large catchment area population wise and if it was a fast growing area of greater Sydney like I’m led to believe the Campbeltown area is.

I was also only trying to find out if the panthers were financially stable.

Sorry wasn't sure why all the penrith specific questions were asked of

Campbelltown needs more presence in my opinion too, so yeah that is a fast growing area, and also sydneys population is shifting west, the cheaper the housing is the further west or southwest you go
Currently the Tigers would do well if they play more games at campbelltown or atleast base themselves there, like the dragons should in Wollongong, if you want the largest part of your base to follow you, you should train and play there more often

 

[titoelcolombiano]

OMG. You honestly think longevity isn't a noted and respected aspect for a club?!

It certainly can be a noted and respected aspect for a club but there is no way that it automatically equals widespread support without success and community engagement. There are plenty of clubs in many sports that have existed for decades that aren't a blip on the radar outsie of their own community.

And you have completely ignored the extremely influential tv expansion era of the 70s ,80s & 90s! OMG.Just going round in circles! OMG!

Yeah ok, it was ignored but I've referred to it in post # 928 of this thread. Do you even try to make coherant posts? Newtown were around during the 70's and early 80's (until 83) of the early TV era but they don't have widespread support so that one has been debunked.

How did the TV boom in the 90's work out for the NBL?
https://www.espn.com.au/nbl/story/_...-40-years-counting-national-basketball-league

That TV era was important but it was no guarantee of sustained widespread support and the above are just two examples of it.

OMG.Just going round in circles! OMG!

If you'd address the points instead of ignoring them we wouldn't be going around in circles.

Here's the evidence (lol) you've produced for this widespread support of the Bears so far:

• 100 years of existence
• Colours
• Logo
• Location
• Rivalries

Go and look up the definition of evidence and get back to me.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

The merger chatter is a negative discourse.

If you don't like it then get off the thread - it is a thread created to discuss options for rationalising Sydney

 

[MugaB]

If you don't like it then get off the thread - it is a thread created to discuss options for rationalising Sydney

Relocate!

Hehe dad joke