Redcliffe put their hand up

[MugaB]

How does east Brisbane appeal to all of Brisbane??

Playing out of Suncorp & targeting whole of Brisbane is something Broncos already do.

Tigers one of most popular teams in Sydney & south west is fastest growing region. Be NRL cutting off its nose in spite of its face.

I get the east brisbane angle, as it leaves the west side to the broncos, and dolphins being north east means both broncos and titans aren't affected heavily by catchment, it also has room to grow if they are serious about taking a few games to sunshine coast too.

Although im not against the Ipswich bid, it could eat into the broncos catchment a lot more than the redcliffe bid, but thats broncos problem really, and the ARLC have stated that they aren't wanting to do that, as for easts tigers/firehawks bid that should be dead in the water after they announced that.. to be honest i can only see the dolphins win out of the bids, its a great mascot, has history, and open to play in a variety of stadia, i couldnt see the other two play anywhere other than only Suncorp, which i suppose is what is wanted. Maybe the jets at a Toowoomba or Ipswich trial match

 

[mongoose]

How does east Brisbane appeal to all of Brisbane??

Playing out of Suncorp & targeting whole of Brisbane is something Broncos already do.

Tigers one of most popular teams in Sydney & south west is fastest growing region. Be NRL cutting off its nose in spite of its face.

They will appeal to more people than Redcliffe Dolphins. Brisbane has 2.5 million people and the Broncos are clearly not getting the most out of that catchment. They also need real competition, not a baby brother club that will get 12k a game at their little boutique stadium.

I am not totally against a Moreton Bay based club but then what stadium would they play out of? Dolphin stadium is too small and not in the most accessible location anyway and Suncorp is too far away. A stadium near the highway would be better or possibly next to Petrie train station where the old paper mill used to be would be great. Petrie station being a major junction where Caboolture and Redcliffe lines join and is also express to Brisbane city. Although the University might already have taken most of the available land there....

 

[flippikat]

I actually think a Moreton Bay team is a good idea but like Dane says Brisbane still needs another proper team that appeals to all of Brissie and plays out of Suncorp.

ideally you bring in both and minus 1 team from Sydney....

De-merge Wests Tigers, push Magpies back to NSW cup. The Balmain Tigers can join up with Easts Tigers in Brisbane, they can even play the occasional game at Leichardt. Canterbury and Parra take over Wests territory or maybe the Roosters can take it, whatever.

With that scenario (Dolphins in, Tigers to Brisbane), that takes us to 17 teams.. then with an expansion to NZ (2nd NZ team, as the NRL are keen on), we'd have an 18 team competition with 3 teams in Brisbane and 2 in NZ.

Not bad at all.

Then the question becomes whether Perth & Adelaide are additional teams (taking it to 20), or further relocations (keeping the 18 team competition size).

 

[Pippen94]

They will appeal to more people than Redcliffe Dolphins. Brisbane has 2.5 million people and the Broncos are clearly not getting the most out of that catchment. They also need real competition, not a baby brother club that will get 12k a game at their little boutique stadium.

I am not totally against a Moreton Bay based club but then what stadium would they play out of? Dolphin stadium is too small and not in the most accessible location anyway and Suncorp is too far away. A stadium near the highway would be better or possibly next to Petrie train station where the old paper mill used to be would be great. Petrie station being a major junction where Caboolture and Redcliffe lines join and is also express to Brisbane city. Although the University might already have taken most of the available land there....

No they won't. Broncos already exist & appeal everyone or atleast try to. Tall order for another team to do that & find fans.
Easts not even an attempt at that as it would be seen as small inner city team which it is.

 

[Pippen94]

I get the east brisbane angle, as it leaves the west side to the broncos, and dolphins being north east means both broncos and titans aren't affected heavily by catchment, it also has room to grow if they are serious about taking a few games to sunshine coast too.

Although im not against the Ipswich bid, it could eat into the broncos catchment a lot more than the redcliffe bid, but thats broncos problem really, and the ARLC have stated that they aren't wanting to do that, as for easts tigers/firehawks bid that should be dead in the water after they announced that.. to be honest i can only see the dolphins win out of the bids, its a great mascot, has history, and open to play in a variety of stadia, i couldnt see the other two play anywhere other than only Suncorp, which i suppose is what is wanted. Maybe the jets at a Toowoomba or Ipswich trial match

Don't see inner city & eastern fans being galvanized like ppl in distinct places like logan, Ipswich & Morton Bay.

 

[Santino Patane]

Don't see inner city & eastern fans being galvanized like ppl in distinct places like logan, Ipswich & Morton Bay.

I honestly feel Brisbanites will get behind any of the three teams. It’s a different feel up here than Sydney- we tend to get behind each other with a primary team (think how Gordon Tallis is- it’s more common than you think). Easts or Redcliffe, I don’t think anyone will stress too hard that their initial base isn’t in their part of town. I can see anyone who is ambivalent of the Broncos supporting a new team in some form , and eventually, they might jump fully on board.

 

[The Great Dane]

All successful 2nd city teams have geographical point of difference. See Wanderers & Dockers. Failed entities try to appeal to same catchment & play at out of same venue. Crushers, Clippers, Melbourne City etc.

Yeah like the New York Yankees and Mets, LA Lakers and Clippers, Manchester Utd and City, etc, etc; wait a minute...

Besides nobody is saying that the second Brisbane club can't or shouldn't have a geographic point of difference, that's just a total misunderstanding of the argument.
Have all the geographical differences you want, but you need to be able to appeal to a broad swath of the whole market, not just one (relatively) tiny slice of it.

The Dolphins, even if they get rid of Redcliffe from their name, won't be able to build mass appeal outside of a very specific part of Morton Bay for generations because their brand is extrinsically linked to Redcliffe, and the NRL doesn't have time to wait generations for them to be a success.
That means if they are to have broad appeal across the city from day one, the Dolphins brand has got to be left in the lower tiers.

 

[The Great Dane]

I honestly feel Brisbanites will get behind any of the three teams. It’s a different feel up here than Sydney- we tend to get behind each other with a primary team (think how Gordon Tallis is- it’s more common than you think). Easts or Redcliffe, I don’t think anyone will stress too hard that their initial base isn’t in their part of town. I can see anyone who is ambivalent of the Broncos supporting a new team in some form , and eventually, they might jump fully on board.

That's not how in-group out-group psychology works.

In other words for Brisbane to not be too stressed about being asked to support a long term rival that has outcompeted them they'd have to overcome millions of years of evolution. That ain't gonna happen.

 

[The Great Dane]

How does east Brisbane appeal to all of Brisbane??

You are right about this.

As the East Brisbane Tigers they are just as incapable of having broad appeal across Brisbane as the Redcliffe Dolphins are.

As the Brisbane Firehawks on the other hand we have the makings of something that could.

 

[Santino Patane]

That's not how in-group out-group psychology works.

In other words for Brisbane to not be to stressed about being asked to support a long term rival that has outcompeted them they'd have to overcome millions of years of evolution. That ain't gonna happen.

I’m sure you’re right on this one, I’m just working off personal ideas and anecdotal evidence. You hear Sydneysiders talk of tribalism and how much the rest of us don’t understand, I just see it as a fallacy to think what happens there will/could here. Or maybe it will have a unique twist to it too.

 

[The Great Dane]

I’m sure you’re right on this one, I’m just working off personal ideas and anecdotal evidence. You hear Sydneysiders talk of tribalism and how much the rest of us don’t understand, I just see it as a fallacy to think what happens there will/could here.or maybe it will have a unique twist to it too.

There's a reason why eye witness evidence is the lowest form of evidence, and that sort of tribalism doesn't just happen in Sydney, it's universal in the human experience (and not just in sport).

Take the Tuggeranong Vikings; they and the Canberra Raiders (and Port Adelaide, but let's set them aside for the moment) are the closest living examples in Australia to what the Dolphins are trying to achieve, in fact the Vikings are basically a carbon copy.

The Vikings kept their brand this was the response, and it killed their team as a commercial entity (they've done it multiple times in fact, it's failed every time).
The Raiders on the other hand grew out of the Queanbeyan Blues, but were forced to take on a new brand that could represent all of the region, and apart from a period in the 00s and early 10s (which had nothing to do with their brand or tribalism), they are now the most successful sports team in Canberra.

If the Dolphins want to fail like the Vikings have three times now, then keep the Dolphins brand. If they want to be a success like the Raiders, come up with a new one.

 

[Pippen94]

Yeah like the New York Yankees and Mets, LA Lakers and Clippers, Manchester Utd and City, etc, etc; wait a minute...

Besides nobody is saying that the second Brisbane club can't or shouldn't have a geographic point of difference, that's just a total misunderstanding of the argument.
Have all the geographical differences you want, but you need to be able to appeal to a broad swath of the whole market, not just one (relatively) tiny slice of it.

The Dolphins, even if they get rid of Redcliffe from their name, won't be able to build mass appeal outside of a very specific part of Morton Bay for generations because their brand is extrinsically linked to Redcliffe, and the NRL doesn't have time to wait generations for them to be a success.
That means if they are to have broad appeal across the city from day one, the Dolphins brand has got to be left in the lower tiers.

It's good to know something about something which you don't. Yankees based in Bronx. Mets set up in queens & fan base is mainly around there & long island. The two Manchester soccer teams were created in different parts of city & even to this day this is reflected in fan maps.
The Clippers in NBA is a bit different as fans follow players as much as teams but they may not be a bigger gap between two teams in same city in regards to support, profile & success. If Brisbane 2 get compared to Clippers they've failed.

 

[Pippen94]

There's a reason why eye witness evidence is the lowest form of evidence, and that sort of tribalism doesn't just happen in Sydney, it's universal in the human experience (and not just in sport).

Take the Tuggeranong Vikings; they and the Canberra Raiders (and Port Adelaide, but let's set them aside for the moment) are the closest living examples in Australia to what the Dolphins are trying to achieve, in fact the Vikings are basically a carbon copy.

The Vikings kept their brand this was the response, and it killed their team as a commercial entity (they've done it multiple times in fact, it's failed every time).
The Raiders on the other hand grew out of the Queanbeyan Blues, but were forced to take on a new brand that could represent all of the region, and apart from a period in the 00s and early 10s (which had nothing to do with their brand or tribalism), they are now the most successful sports team in Canberra.

If the Dolphins want to fail like the Vikings have three times now, then keep the Dolphins brand. If they want to be a success like the Raiders, come up with a new one.

Nothing like that. Raiders set to represent whole of Canberra. Dolphins will represent Morton Bay & north. Dolphins only ever pro sports team in history of that region.

 

[Pippen94]

You are right about this.

As the East Brisbane Tigers they are just as incapable of having broad appeal across Brisbane as the Redcliffe Dolphins are.

As the Brisbane Firehawks on the other hand we have the makings of something that could.

Dolphins only pro team in history of region with 500k population.
Easts represent a much smaller area & shared inner city with about 6 clubs.

 

[mongoose]

I honestly feel Brisbanites will get behind any of the three teams. It’s a different feel up here than Sydney- we tend to get behind each other with a primary team (think how Gordon Tallis is- it’s more common than you think). Easts or Redcliffe, I don’t think anyone will stress too hard that their initial base isn’t in their part of town. I can see anyone who is ambivalent of the Broncos supporting a new team in some form , and eventually, they might jump fully on board.

you could be right... I am taking it Port Adelaide and Fremantle Dockers are supported by people all over Adelaide and Perth respectively. Freo is just some old port town that got engulfed by greater Perth. How does Brisbane replicate that, can it?

 

[MugaB]

you could be right... I am taking it Port Adelaide and Fremantle Dockers are supported by people all over Adelaide and Perth respectively. Freo is just some old port town that got engulfed by greater Perth. How does Brisbane replicate that, can it?

Well apparently so was moreton bay, so GROTD has mentioned

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Well apparently so was moreton bay, so GROTD has mentioned

The original settlement in Moreton was based in Redcliffe, but was shifted to Brisbane. So Redcliffe predates Brisbane and Dolphins predate Broncos. It has all the makings of a grand old rivalry.

Brisbane Broncos
Moreton Bay Dolphins

Third team could be Logan. If it wasn't for Captain Patrick Logan then the Moreton Settlement would have been abandoned. Much of SEQ was discovered by Captain Patrick Logan and many localities are named after him. The longest road in the region is Logan Rd, extending from south-eastern Brisbane and traveling all the way to north-eastern Logan. Easts Tigers territory pretty much covers the localities named after Captain Patrick Logan.

Logan Raptors would be a great name for Brisbane's 3rd club, based out of Coorparoo.

https://www.visitmoretonbayregion.com.au/blog/redcliffe-history-settlement-centenary-beyond

 

[Pippen94]

The original settlement in Moreton was based in Redcliffe, but was shifted to Brisbane. So Redcliffe predates Brisbane and Dolphins predate Broncos. It has all the makings of a grand old rivalry.

Brisbane Broncos
Moreton Bay Dolphins

Third team could be Logan. If it wasn't for Captain Patrick Logan then the Moreton Settlement would have been abandoned. Much of SEQ was discovered by Captain Patrick Logan and many localities are named after him. The longest road in the region is Logan Rd, extending from south-eastern Brisbane and traveling all the way to north-eastern Logan. Easts Tigers territory pretty much covers the localities named after Captain Patrick Logan.

Logan Raptors would be a great name for Brisbane's 3rd club, based out of Coorparoo.

https://www.visitmoretonbayregion.com.au/blog/redcliffe-history-settlement-centenary-beyond

Great post

 

[Perth Red]

Main concern remains that a dolphins club will largely draw most of its support from the Redcliffe region and with the best will in the world you’re not going to get 20k people from that region travelling to Suncorp for games. They could end up with some very ugly crowd avgs until they can convince the govt to build them a new $250mill stadium in the region

 

[MugaB]

Main concern remains that a dolphins club will largely draw most of its support from the Redcliffe region and with the best will in the world you’re not going to get 20k people from that region travelling to Suncorp for games. They could end up with some very ugly crowd acts until they can convince the govt to behold them a new $250mill stadium

Thats not happening, they are playing in suncorp, same as the ipswich bid, both bids to me are the same distance from suncorp to their respective areas that they represent with the same issues