Reece Robson Leaving

[TruSaint]

Of course they’ve lost guys. But they’ve kept the right ones. Sure, Roosters lost SKD and Guerra and Pearce. But they held onto Mitchell, Radley, Manu and so on. Storm lost Cronk and now Slater, but they held onto B.Smith, Croft, Munster.

We are choosing to hold onto McInnes, Aitken and Norman.

It’s not that hard for them to be in first grade. Is Robson a better utility option than Dufty? The answer is yes, so he should be there. Is Lomax a better right centre option than Aitken? In many opinions yes, so he should be there. Field I could give or take, but if we hadn’t panic-bought Norman we could have our spine of Dufty, Widdop, Hunt and McInnes, Robson on the bench and Field filling in when injuries and origin come around to see if he can take up the mantle in 2020.

So no, securing all 3 is not difficult.

Norman just signed with us and I think McInnes is a great 9.
Agree re Aitken.

Dufty just extended his contract, and is wasted this year on the bench.

If Robson, Field or Lomax get an offer to play regular first grade, then thats a call they make. Would be nice to keep all 3, but cant see it happening.

Collectively, they have a hand full of 1st grade games, ... now thats not their fault, however it is hard to gauge their true worth playing in the C.Cup ( ISP ), whatever its called now.

 

[Dragonslayer]

The test is; are Runciman and Maranta better buys than Lomax and Field? Is Norman a better buy than Robson and another first grade forward?

With the 2m approx. that Widdop and Norman take up, we could have also signed two top grade wingers and kept the new wingers in ISP until they forced their way into first grade on form.

It's a mess, a Millward Mess.

Possm, mate for the 1000 time Runciman is not signed to the NRL squad, he is on a part-time contract for the CC.
Now, i'm not saying he couldn't be promoted in the future but right now he isnt.

 

[Ascalon]

I will be gutted if Robson and Field sign elsewhere but I can understand the frustration with knowing you have no pathway to first grade other than through the injury of another no matter how well you are progressing.
A coach must make tough decisions and that means demoting those not performing. For the life of me I cannot recall the last senior player McGregor dropped? Maybe someone can assist? Effective leaders make tough decisions.

 

[TruSaint]

I will be gutted if Robson and Field sign elsewhere but I can understand the frustration with knowing you have no pathway to first grade other than through the injury of another no matter how well you are progressing.
A coach must make tough decisions and that means demoting those not performing. For the life of me I cannot recall the last senior player McGregor dropped? Maybe someone can assist? Effective leaders make tough decisions.

The only reason Lomax got a run was due to injury. Our issues with JDB, Friz, losing LAM etc, mean that Kerr, Lawrie now get 1st grade footy. So yeah, seems to be the only "pathway" .. is through injury, suspension or maybe SOO period.

 

[Dragonslayer]

Just in the Field case, IF we did the above, and found that he wasn't the player we wanted, who is coming off contract at the end of 2019 that we could replace him with?

The issue for me is where would Field go to play 1st grade? Titans maybe?
Otherwise he's just putting himself in the same situation as he is now but in different colours.
Remember too, we have a very good half prospect coming through in Jayden Sullivan (currently SG Ball), big wraps on him.
So really, Field might be just a means to an end at present.

 

[LINESPEED]

I will be gutted if Robson and Field sign elsewhere but I can understand the frustration with knowing you have no pathway to first grade other than through the injury of another no matter how well you are progressing.
A coach must make tough decisions and that means demoting those not performing. For the life of me I cannot recall the last senior player McGregor dropped? Maybe someone can assist? Effective leaders make tough decisions.

From memory, Waterboy begrudgingly dropped Lafai for 1 game a couple of years ago after shocking form, Lovechild #1 was begrudginglybenched in the final round of 2017 after outrage from the media & Aitken sidelined although ostensibly fit vs Bunnies in last year’s semi. Also Nighty after much pressure.

He’s the antithesis of an effective leader & garners his political survival on reciprocal loyalty to the senior playing group (especially so with Aitken & Lafai)

Selecting the best 17 is secondary to holding the dressing room

If Lomax or Robson leaves all hell will break loose on several fronts - the most significant of which will be Big Red’s
turning on him for probably a variety of reasons.
Successive losses without personnel changes will hasten the process

An interesting few weeks ahead fellas ....

 

[Old Timer]

Possm, mate for the 1000 time Runciman is not signed to the NRL squad, he is on a part-time contract for the CC.
Now, i'm not saying he couldn't be promoted in the future but right now he isnt.

Still taking up a spot in CC so effectively blocks a pathway in a spot we struggle in.
Hopefully if Lomax isn't getting a run in 1sts they put him back to CC to ensure he is getting match fit.
The 18th man thing especially when they travel shits me to tears.
That position is a job for Maranta.

 

[BennyV]

Norman just signed with us and I think McInnes is a great 9.
Agree re Aitken.

Dufty just extended his contract, and is wasted this year on the bench.

If Robson, Field or Lomax get an offer to play regular first grade, then thats a call they make. Would be nice to keep all 3, but cant see it happening.

Collectively, they have a hand full of 1st grade games, ... now thats not their fault, however it is hard to gauge their true worth playing in the C.Cup ( ISP ), whatever its called now.

Norman signing was an unnecessary one (although that’s opinion) but the biggest impact on that is Field, who is the least important of the 3 to keep.

McInnes is a great 9, who has shown to slow down and be fatigued throughout the season and even throughout games. This will be amplified this year with the loss of JDB. And the best substitute for a hooker is actually a hooker, not a halfback shifting to hooker while the fullback shifts to halfback and the utility shifts to fullback to run directly across field for 15-20 minutes a game.

The thing is, none of what you say is OK. Sure, it’s their choice to leave, but we aren’t giving them the best reasons to leave. We aren’t giving them a deserved crack in first grade. It has been the same for years. We have a Director of Pathways FFS, and yet we still cant find a path to first grade for the best of our young talent. The reason I bring up Roosters, Storm and Penrith is because they’ve got the ability to identify the best of the best talent, make the hard choices and bring them through to first grade. We don’t. That’s why we lose them.

It’s not an inevitability. It’s a failure.

 

[Dragonslayer]

Still taking up a spot in CC so effectively blocks a pathway in a spot we struggle in.
Hopefully if Lomax isn't getting a run in 1sts they put him back to CC to ensure he is getting match fit.
The 18th man thing especially when they travel shits me to tears.
That position is a job for Maranta.

We did promote 5 players from last years JF to CC this year.
Jason Gillard
Jayden Morgan
Cooper Purcell
Juvilee Samiu
Matt Shepherd
However, I do agree that Runciman was signed with the specific purpise of a June 30 promotion to the NRL squad, no mail just my hunch.
The Lomax situation has me baffled, but at least this week with our 1st grade tonight and CC not playing 'till Saturday, there is hope he will join that squad for a game. Otherwise I have no idea what is the plan for him.
Playing away though (and all grades playing on the sane day), I 100% agree Maranta should be the travelling Wilbury.

 

[BLM01]

I will be gutted if Robson and Field sign elsewhere but I can understand the frustration with knowing you have no pathway to first grade other than through the injury of another no matter how well you are progressing.
A coach must make tough decisions and that means demoting those not performing. For the life of me I cannot recall the last senior player McGregor dropped? Maybe someone can assist? Effective leaders make tough decisions.

Mann
Dufty
Lomax..poor trial form?

 

[Ascalon]

Easy to punt the inexperienced. Would like to see him grow some balls and make some tough decisions when they need to be made.

 

[True_Believer]

We aren’t giving them a deserved crack in first grade. It has been the same for years. We have a Director of Pathways FFS, and yet we still cant find a path to first grade for the best of our young talent.

Just on the quoted text Benny, I'm wondering what more you believe Millward can do? He's kept them through the lower grades and got them to a point where we, at least, believe they are ready for some time in first grade (or at least more time). If the coach isn't willing to promote them, then I'm wondering what more can be done?

 

[TruSaint]

Norman signing was an unnecessary one (although that’s opinion) but the biggest impact on that is Field, who is the least important of the 3 to keep.

McInnes is a great 9, who has shown to slow down and be fatigued throughout the season and even throughout games. This will be amplified this year with the loss of JDB. And the best substitute for a hooker is actually a hooker, not a halfback shifting to hooker while the fullback shifts to halfback and the utility shifts to fullback to run directly across field for 15-20 minutes a game.

The thing is, none of what you say is OK. Sure, it’s their choice to leave, but we aren’t giving them the best reasons to leave. We aren’t giving them a deserved crack in first grade. It has been the same for years. We have a Director of Pathways FFS, and yet we still cant find a path to first grade for the best of our young talent. The reason I bring up Roosters, Storm and Penrith is because they’ve got the ability to identify the best of the best talent, make the hard choices and bring them through to first grade. We don’t. That’s why we lose them.

It’s not an inevitability. It’s a failure.

Mate, we are going round in circles.

There are 30 spots up for grab. All I did was highlight that Norman has been signed ( value yet to be determined as he is rocks and diamonds ), Dufty has been extended ( same here in my opinion ), . We have signed a couple of fringe wingers.

In my post, i said that the 3 players in question limited time in first grade is not of their doing.

That is a coaching selection issue.

Good point re loss of Jack ( and what's needed), , but no one could have predicted the JDB debacle. Its only been weeks since since we knew that he would be stepped down.

Anyway, agree to disagree. I understand your point, but in this instance I cant be too critical as a.) none have left and b.) I haven't seen enough of the said players at the top level to make a judgement. That's all.

 

[possm]

From memory, Waterboy begrudgingly dropped Lafai for 1 game a couple of years ago after shocking form, Lovechild #1 was begrudginglybenched in the final round of 2017 after outrage from the media & Aitken sidelined although ostensibly fit vs Bunnies in last year’s semi. Also Nighty after much pressure.

He’s the antithesis of an effective leader & garners his political survival on reciprocal loyalty to the senior playing group (especially so with Aitken & Lafai)

Selecting the best 17 is secondary to holding the dressing room

If Lomax or Robson leaves all hell will break loose on several fronts - the most significant of which will be Big Red’s
turning on him for probably a variety of reasons.
Successive losses without personnel changes will hasten the process

An interesting few weeks ahead fellas ....

It is Millward who decides whether Lomax, Robson or Field are extended. It is mary who decides whether any of the above 3 players will get any time in first grade.

 

[grouch]

Just on the quoted text Benny, I'm wondering what more you believe Millward can do? He's kept them through the lower grades and got them to a point where we, at least, believe they are ready for some time in first grade (or at least more time). If the coach isn't willing to promote them, then I'm wondering what more can be done?

Hard to argue with this. Not much the pathways director can do if the end of the road is blocked by a drunk driver.

 

[TruSaint]

It is Millward who decides whether Lomax, Robson or Field are extended. It is mary who decides whether any of the above 3 players will get any time in first grade.

One leads to the other.

If they don't play or get some exposure to 1st grade, then how is their real value determined? Especially when the 3 in question want to play NRL level.

 

[Carlton]

Norman is only good value if he plays well consistently.
Almost everything said about him is offering excuses as to why he hasn't fulfilled his potential and trying to get us to believe he will do that at our club under our coach.
I have little confidence in that becoming a fact.
Norman will be mercurial and do some good things of that I have no doubt but does he have the willpower and stamina to do it week in week out season in season out I have nothing to indicate that he can do that and I have no doubt our coach lacks the necessary skills to see that it does.

What do you mean by "plays well consistently", always has a good game? is the best player on the field every game? stands up when the game is tough? plays well for the money he is on?

You can look at it and make a case that Widdop is not good value because he has not played well consistently when he has been needed in games. But it was a good throw away line.

Rather than offering excuses the posters that have been in favour of Norman have pointed to his proven abilities and want to see him at his best for Saints.

 

[True_Believer]

One leads to the other.

If they don't play or get some exposure to 1st grade, then how is their real value determined? Especially when the 3 in question want to play NRL level.

Exactly. And it's not only that, if they aren't getting that NRL time, they are likely to look elsewhere no matter what negotiations you are going through.

 

[Old Timer]

What do you mean by "plays well consistently", always has a good game? is the best player on the field every game? stands up when the game is tough? plays well for the money he is on?

You can look at it and make a case that Widdop is not good value because he has not played well consistently when he has been needed in games. But it was a good throw away line.

Rather than offering excuses the posters that have been in favour of Norman have pointed to his proven abilities and want to see him at his best for Saints.

Puts in every game despite win, lose or draw.
Widdop for all the criticism levelled at him can't be accused of not putting in or being a passenger even in the games where he has not played well which is not that many if people are fair in their assessments.
I cannot say the same of Norman during some of the debacles at Parramatta.
Edit: Over the last 2 years who has been the more consistent player Norman or Widdop?
If it is Widdop, which according to the good judges it is, then obviously he is more consistent.

 

[George Dragon]

It is Millward who decides whether Lomax, Robson or Field are extended. It is mary who decides whether any of the above 3 players will get any time in first grade.

No it's the players and managers who decide whether they extend, based on opportunity and contract value.