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Ref Watch 2014 (aka the Skeepe Thread)

Canard

Immortal
Messages
35,431
Manly received their first penalty in the 47th min. They were penalised just before up there end when a chip and chase kicker ran imto Jamie Lyon. Cowboys missed their 2nd sitter of a kick.

The next 33 mins, the refs must've turned around.

It wasn't some massive lopsided count though it 2 nil at the time.

And as for the Lyon incident, Gus was way wrong.
 

Dragon

Coach
Messages
14,972
The two referee system has been a blight on the game, it has offered absolutely f**king nothing except added another layer of incompetent shit.

You can blame that merkin Warren Smith for this one. The most vocal proponent for years and years. In fact most commentators are to blame for the state of the game also, and boy do they love a bet
 

Card Shark

Immortal
Messages
32,237
It wasn't some massive lopsided count though it 2 nil at the time.

And as for the Lyon incident, Gus was way wrong.

In normal speed, Lyon reacts the only way he could.

Yes the penalty count was low but it's not as though the Cowboys were penalised out of having a chance in the game like some teams cop early on & the traditional square up in the 2nd half is token only.
 
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Frailty

First Grade
Messages
9,438
This all goes back to when Robert Finch turned refereeing into game management, it's been f**ked ever since. The two referee system has been a blight on the game, it has offered absolutely f**king nothing except added another layer of incompetent shit. All this surrender this, dominant that, tip sheets, crackdowns and on and on it goes. These f**kers also TALK way too much on the field, no wonder they get so many calls wrong, they're ALWAYS f**kING TALKING and can't concentrate - just get back to what the art of refereeing is all about and that is REFEREEING WHAT YOU SEE, NOT WHAT YOU WANT TO SEE.

It is so f**king simple, f**k.

The problems began well before Robert Finch. I think you'll find Peter Louis did a lot of damage, but he didn't start until the end of 1999. I forget who was head of referees beforehand. The problem was bringing in ex-players and coaches to give the referees 'a players perspective'. This is still a big misconception as we can see with the video referee issues. Tony Archer has been brought through the current system so is useless.

Referees have always talked, they were just never mic'd up. Talking is a big part of ensuring the game flows with very little stoppages due to penalties. Problem is referees don't effectively communicate these days. It's "held, move, hold" and repeat.

The dominant and surrender tackle crap has overcomplicated the simple tackle. Why we couldn't just stick to 'release the player once you have tackled him' who know. If we kept this rule and enforced it we would see no wrestling, more creative attacking plays, and less 3 men or gang tackles.
 

insert.pause

First Grade
Messages
6,455
This all goes back to when Robert Finch turned refereeing into game management, it's been f**ked ever since. The two referee system has been a blight on the game, it has offered absolutely f**king nothing except added another layer of incompetent shit. All this surrender this, dominant that, tip sheets, crackdowns and on and on it goes. These f**kers also TALK way too much on the field, no wonder they get so many calls wrong, they're ALWAYS f**kING TALKING and can't concentrate - just get back to what the art of refereeing is all about and that is REFEREEING WHAT YOU SEE, NOT WHAT YOU WANT TO SEE.

It is so f**king simple, f**k.

I agree with everything you have said, but i would add that coaches are also part of the problem, thanks to technology they are able to analyse the game to death these days to gain any little advantage and the nrl is pressured into responding and the way players are drilled its just impossible for refs to win. The two referees is case in point, brought in to stamp out wrestling and here we are with two referees and more new interpretations to stamp it out and the wrestle is still a problem to the point that a player may never walk again.

Get rid of the pocket ref and bring back the 5m and the wrestle won't be as big of an issue because they only have to get back half the distance, it would also bring more creativity into the play then the structured game we have today where every coach reads from the same playbook. However, even after all that coaches will still find a way to bend the rules and we will be back at square one again. The rules will always be a step behind the coaches.
 
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Frailty

First Grade
Messages
9,438
I agree with everything you have said, but i would add that coaches are also part of the problem, thanks to technology they are able to analyse the game to death these days to gain any little advantage and the nrl is pressured into responding and the way players are drilled its just impossible for refs to win. The two referees is case in point, brought in to stamp out wrestling and here we are with two referees and more new interpretations to stamp it out and the wrestle is still a problem to the point that a player may never walk again.

Get rid of the pocket ref and bring back the 5m and the wrestle won't be as big of an issue because they only have to get back half the distance, it would also bring more creativity into the play then the structured game we have today where every coach reads from the same playbook. However, even after all that coaches will still find a way to bend the rules and we will be back at square one again.

The 10m rule is not the problem that caused the wrestle. It was fine from 1993 all the way through to 2000. It was then that referees decided not police a simple rule - when a defender makes a tackle he must release the tackle player immediately. Then they decided that we should have a dominant and surrender tackle to give them even more time.

Changing the game back to the 5m rule would only see the game revert to a Union style. It wouldn't speed up the play the ball or reduce the wrestle.
 

TheVelourFog

First Grade
Messages
5,061
Name one other professional sport in the world that messes with its rules season after season as often, that leaves its rules so open to personal interpretation. Name one other sport that has such contentious rulings wrong game after game, week after week. There isn't one. And we wonder why it isn't anything more than a reasonably popular sport in the one country that can claim to be dominant in it.
 

Card Shark

Immortal
Messages
32,237
Waiting for Manly obstruction try...

In the meantime, cowboys have dropped the ball in a tackle, thrown a long forward pass (that was actually forward - refs often get them wring) & dropped the ball over the line.

Edit: Just saw the "try". 2 very poor decisions in a few tackles.
 
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TheVelourFog

First Grade
Messages
5,061
Waiting for Manly obstruction try...

In the meantime, cowboys have dropped the ball in a tackle, thrown a long forward pass (that was actually forward - refs often get them wring) & dropped the ball over the line.

what is your point? Those were all called correctly. Could a done with a couple of 7-tackle sets though.
 

BunniesMan

Immortal
Messages
33,709
My council of 5 fans looks better and better every day. There is no way Manly scores that try if we had my council system in place.
 

2010Dragons

Bench
Messages
4,038
Another game and the winner is decided by the referees.
We are no longer watching a game of footy. We are watch Referees picking the winner.
 

BunniesMan

Immortal
Messages
33,709
"if you're looking for consistency you're following the wrong game. Things change from week to week" - Phillip Gould
 

MacDougall

First Grade
Messages
5,744
The nrl has become a joke. The referees are a joke. To many new rules, to many stupid penalties. The most obvious penalties or no trys being overlooked. It has become the laughing stock of all codes. Crowds dropping, gee I wonder why. The game is actually becoming worse. And in ten years time could become the 4th or 5th ranked code in Australia . I think the game needs to go backwards in time before it can go forward again.

This all goes back to when Robert Finch turned refereeing into game management, it's been f**ked ever since. The two referee system has been a blight on the game, it has offered absolutely f**king nothing except added another layer of incompetent shit. All this surrender this, dominant that, tip sheets, crackdowns and on and on it goes. These f**kers also TALK way too much on the field, no wonder they get so many calls wrong, they're ALWAYS f**kING TALKING and can't concentrate - just get back to what the art of refereeing is all about and that is REFEREEING WHAT YOU SEE, NOT WHAT YOU WANT TO SEE.

It is so f**king simple, f**k.

Sums it up really.

It shouldn't be that hard really.

Of all the issues we've got obstruction (year in year out) and ruck infringements (hands on ball, hold on too long, blah) causing all the issues in the game right now.

Solutions.

1. Don't run behind your own player, at all, even if you stop and try to give yourself up. Run behind own player = penalty. Black and white. Onus is on one person. Decoy's cannot make contact in any case with the defender, at all, ever, no matter what. Decoy running is crap anyway. Kill it. It's one of the aspects of the sport that are just too hard to get right, so end it.

2. If you don't see it, it may as well not have happened. If the ball comes free in the tackle and you didn't see it clearly raked, then the attacker should have held onto it better. If you miss a rake that's understandable, but when you penalise a person for doing nothing wrong (which happens about half the time), then that's unforgiveable.

3. Get rid of all the unnecessary ruck control dominant/surrender garbage. It's inconsistently called. If the attacker is held call held. Count to three. If the defenders aren't off the defender by then, penalise them unless one of them is injured or the attacking player is clearly holding onto the player to milk a penalty in which case the penalty goes the other way immediately. Onus is on the defender to get the f**k outta dodge before the whistle blows and it's not confusing. If you miss a sneaky attacker grabbing a shirt that's understandable but with two refs on the field and one standing over the ruck you should be able to see it most of the time.

4. Video ref tipoffs need to happen in obvious cases. If something obvious like the time has lapsed let him tell the ref. If there is a break in play after a ruling and the video ref has time to see that it was an utter howler, overrule it. And for the love of God let him rule on forward passes.

5. Understand that the game is not for penalties, the penalties are merely to shape a quality sport. Don't blow it unless you're sure. The games are better quality when they are end to end and this means happier fans, and more fans.
 
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