Robert Lui???

[Old Time Tiger]

Looking at NRL stats from Saturday night are interesting, now I know you can't compare players in different positions but for the sake of this discussion, I include Moltzen, Marshall and Lui.

Try Assists: Lui 1, Marshall 0, Moltzen 0.
Tackle Breaks: Marshall 6, Lui 1, Moltzen 0.
Tackles: Lui 21, Moltzen 13, Marshall 10.
Missed Tackles: Marshall 5, Moltzen 4, Lui 2
Ineffective Tackles: 1 each
Errors: Lui 3 (yes only 3), Marshall 2, Moltzen 1

http://www.nrl.com/TelstraPremiership/MatchCentre/tabid/10999/Default.aspx#matchid=1263&tab=Stats

So how bad was Lui on Saturday night?

I posted another piece on the topic 'division in the camp' maybe the problem is not Lui but the guy outside him?

 

[DanOz]

Looking at NRL stats from Saturday night are interesting, now I know you can't compare players in different positions but for the sake of this discussion, I include Moltzen, Marshall and Lui.

Try Assists: Lui 1, Marshall 0, Moltzen 0.
Tackle Breaks: Marshall 6, Lui 1, Moltzen 0.
Tackles: Lui 21, Moltzen 13, Marshall 10.
Missed Tackles: Marshall 5, Moltzen 4, Lui 2
Ineffective Tackles: 1 each
Errors: Lui 3 (yes only 3), Marshall 2, Moltzen 1

http://www.nrl.com/TelstraPremiership/MatchCentre/tabid/10999/Default.aspx#matchid=1263&tab=Stats

So how bad was Lui on Saturday night?

I posted another piece on the topic 'division in the camp' maybe the problem is not Lui but the guy outside him?

You are not seriously comparing a halfback to a centre??? How bad was Lui? Attrocious. Stats dont tell the story of a man who went missing. You don't even get a stat for a missed tackle when you are not even in a position to miss it. And they certainly dont tell the story of how on the last tackle when the pressure is on the halfback doesnt have his hand up for the ball. No one on this forum is raving about Moltzens form as a centre, a fullback, an interchange player or any other out of position Supercoach wants to play him in. Why not dig up Moltzens stats as a halfback if you want to compare apples with apples...

 

[hybrid_tiger]

You are not seriously comparing a halfback to a centre??? How bad was Lui? Attrocious. Stats dont tell the story of a man who went missing. You don't even get a stat for a missed tackle when you are not even in a position to miss it. And they certainly dont tell the story of how on the last tackle when the pressure is on the halfback doesnt have his hand up for the ball. No one on this forum is raving about Moltzens form as a centre, a fullback, an interchange player or any other out of position Supercoach wants to play him in. Why not dig up Moltzens stats as a halfback if you want to compare apples with apples...

Lui may have been poor on Saturday night, but he was not alone.

Find me a single game that Moltzen has played at halfback that was anywhere near as good as what Lui played against Canberra a fortnight ago.

I'll give you a tip: you can't because it doesn't exist.

 

[westie]

I might be wrong but I think Miller will be a much better half than either Lui or Moltzen. I can see a lot of talent in Lui but unfortuunately I can't see so much in Moltzen. Whether he is coming off an injury or not, he just seems out of his depth..certainly at the moment.

What I do see in Miller, even at this young age is a bit of mongrol and aggression. I know kids can look good in the 20's but I really rate Miller. I'd be signing him way before Moltzen. He is prepared to put his body on the line more than both Lui and Moltzen.

Pretty much what I think of him. I haven't seen him play 20s, but his first touch in FG showed he'll be a good half long after the other two have given up. He's got footy player written all over him.

We suck with either of the other two now. Both have terrible defence. Why not chuck him in, let him learn. It can't get any worse. Even when we're winning the other two still cough up trys and don't get involved in attack.

If he needs a break... dones't handle it long term. Just go back to Lui. Might give him a kick up the arse.

 

[hybrid_tiger]

Miller certainly does look good - he will get his chance as he is still young and eligible for 20s against next year if I am not mistaken.

Lui was close to our best player in the finals series last season. He will come good.

 

[DanOz]

I'll give you a tip: you can't because it doesn't exist.

I'll give you the tip - opinions vary.

Regardless it is moronic to compare the performance of Lui to Moltzen when Tim is out of position, and no one is singing his praises as anything other than a halfback.

 

[madunit]

how would Lui perform playing at Centre?

If you think he'd be better at Centre than Moltzen, you're having a lend of yourself.

 

[Old Time Tiger]

DanOz

You are not seriously comparing a halfback to a centre???

no, not at all and I actually said

now I know you can't compare players in different positions but for the sake of this discussion, I include Moltzen, Marshall and Lui.

I was just comparing the players, I could have added Farah, Woods and Fifita. The point I was trying to make based on stats was,

how bad was Lui

because there were others just like hybrid_tiger said.

 

[hybrid_tiger]

I'll give you the tip - opinions vary.

Regardless it is moronic to compare the performance of Lui to Moltzen when Tim is out of position, and no one is singing his praises as anything other than a halfback.

Again, feel free to find me a game that Moltzen has played for this club at halfback that was better than Lui 's game two week ago.

Too many people are deluded by winning statistics that have little bearing on actual performances.

 

[R2Coupe]

Game against Melbourne at Leichhardt. Moltzen had the Melbourne defence in twos and threes with his running and passing. He made two or three clean breaks that day. This is an area Lui cannot match, the ability to fool defences with his speed. Don't get me wrong, I like Lui as well but Moltzen offers blinding pace which is needed in the halves.

 

[DanOz]

Again, feel free to find me a game that Moltzen has played for this club at halfback that was better than Lui 's game two week ago.

Too many people are deluded by winning statistics that have little bearing on actual performances.

Again, opinions vary. I could give you an example (and R2Coupe has given a good example) but you will probably turn around and disagree. I have no interest in changing your opinion, only voicing mine.

 

[super_coach]

Well maybe its time to give Moltzen a shot at the no7, the team could not play any worse. The club might be in a better position to make a call on who they cut free. From where I sit I think Lui is a better no7 than Tim, but his form is up and down at present and thats not what you want from a no7, you need consistency. Really what have we to loose on the last two weeks form we will be very close to the bottom of the comp by seasons end

 

[hybrid_tiger]

You have just proven my point. Moltzen is nothing more than a running five-eighth.

He has little creativity, not much of a kicking game and does not create doubt in the defensive line like Lui does.

Blinding pace is nice to have but is not a necessity in the halves. A kicking game is far more important, as is a long passing game - two attributes which Lui has in spades over Moltzen.

 

[Tigerm]

You have just proven my point. Moltzen is nothing more than a running five-eighth.

He has little creativity, not much of a kicking game and does not create doubt in the defensive line like Lui does.

Blinding pace is nice to have but is not a necessity in the halves. A kicking game is far more important, as is a long passing game - two attributes which Lui has in spades over Moltzen.

Hybrid, please, the only doubt the attack have with Lui's defence is will they run left, right or over him. His defence has been very ordinary of late.

That said, I believe if Lui is the person they have chosen to be our 7 (& it appears they have), then he needs to be given time to settle & I am not thinking a game or two, more like half a season plus, they must have known his defence was brittle, when they made there decision.

From memory Benji was ordinary in defence when he first started, he has improved, so I would expect the same for Lui?

 

[madunit]

Lui's defence would improve markedly if he used his arms and shoulders when tackling.

He's clearly scared in defence. Thats a very bad thing

 

[hybrid_tiger]

Hybrid, please, the only doubt the attack have with Lui's defence is will they run left, right or over him. His defence has been very ordinary of late.

That said, I believe if Lui is the person they have chosen to be our 7 (& it appears they have), then he needs to be given time to settle & I am not thinking a game or two, more like half a season plus, they must have known his defence was brittle, when they made there decision.

From memory Benji was ordinary in defence when he first started, he has improved, so I would expect the same for Lui?

Lui's defence is poor - no arguments from me. But it is slowly improving. As always with young players, you can't expect consistency straight away. The kid is still young (he is only 21) and will only improve.

IMO he is a far better player and most importantly a player who has many more positive attributes than Moltzen. He has far more skills that suit the halfback position than Moltzen does.

Lui was our best player in the biggest game of our season last year, and IMO was one of our best players in the finals series overall. He has weaknesses, and he has been poor the last two weeks but he has had plenty of mates, so I'm not sure why he always seems to be singled out as a problem.

I am sick of people calling for his head and saying he should be replaced by Moltzen. It is ridiculous to suggest it. Moltzen is still recovering from injury, is clearly not 100%, and is very low on confidence. I also find it laughable that people (rightfully) bag Lui's defence, yet in the same breath suggest Moltzen as his replacement - a player who is scared of contact and has shown time and time again that he is unwilling to put his body on the line.

Here is my thoughts on Moltzen - he is a good player, who is more suited as a running five-eighth than a halfback. He hasn't shown any glimpses of a competent long or short kicking game whenever he has played half in FG, and he is not an organiser. He will run at the line when there is a break on, and can put someone through a gap, but he is not creative.

What has happened here is that because we were forced to put up with John Morris at halfback for three years, we get a bit of an upgrade in Moltzen in there and people go on like he is the next Andrew Johns. Fair enough, we went on a winning streak when he played #7 but if you watched closely, it had very little to do with Moltzen playing halfback and more to do with how the team was playing at that time. This has blinded people's opinions of him - he is very overrated on this forum. If people honestly think Moltzen is the SOLE reason we won those games when he played halfback, and that if he plays halfback now we will suddenly go on a similar winning streak, they are deluded.

 

[joel caine number 1 fan]

Lui's defence would improve markedly if he used his arms and shoulders when tackling.

He's clearly scared in defence. Thats a very bad thing

name me 5 halfs in the game with good defense?
theres not many,plus ive seen guys like Lockyer and Kimmorley miss around 8 tackles in a game :shock:

 

[macnaz]

To be honest im starting to think they are both soft Miller is looking a lot better as a long term prospect.
Regardless we have been playing shit 1 through to 17 so changing our half isnt necessarily going to make much differant. It seems when the whole team plays well our number 7 who ever it happens to be will play well.

 

[macnaz]

name me 5 halfs in the game with good defense?
theres not many,plus ive seen guys like Lockyer and Kimmorley miss around 8 tackles in a game :shock:

True joel,, but do u recal the above players not actualy trying to make those missed tackles ?? There is a big diferance between not being physically strong enough etc and just plain not having a f%cking go.
That applies to MOltzen to i might add, he has shown some real pussy shots as well lately.

 

[851]

To be honest im starting to think they are both soft Miller is looking a lot better as a long term prospect.
Regardless we have been playing shit 1 through to 17 so changing our half isnt necessarily going to make much differant. It seems when the whole team plays well our number 7 who ever it happens to be will play well.

I have been saying this for months now,Miller is a far better prospect than both Moltzen and Lui,and he can tackle too.