Round 15 vs Dragons - Game Day Thread

[oldmancraigy]

total footy stats has French at 3 try assist - c'mon brains trust - which was that one?

 

[Forty20]

Didn't Jennings recently-ish score one after Bev danced down the left edge and passed/offloaded to him?

 

[Obscene Assassin]

Yes - defence has been very good for the most part.

I don't know what is going on with our attack. Really, it has been bloody ordinary all season bar one game. When Noddy made his comment yesterday about us putting 40 on them, I am sure all eels supporters laughed. We don't currently have that amount of points in us. Very disjointed and clunky it seems.

Scoring that many points comes from a few things. Imo the most important is team chemistry and experience playing together. Yesterday was Norman and Moses' 2nd game together. 1st time Jennings has played on the right alongside Moses.

 

[The EELiminator]

You'd think he would get try assist AND a linebreak assist on that one?

But I just found the problem with the stats I was looking at (on the official NRL website). They are from 2016.
That's hopeless. How can they not have them up to date?!?

looks like the stat department is run as well as the bunker

 

[Poupou Escobar]

We also controlled the whole game and won convincingly. You do realise the winner is the team with the most points, not the most LBAs don't you?

We won because we were able to capitalise on big St George mistakes. Smarter teams won't gift us those opportunities.

Getting an early lead off the back of those mistakes is what allowed us to control the game. It's a lot harder to control the game when the score is close or you're behind on the scoreboard. I don't think we should be reading too much into our results against dumb teams like the Dragons or Warriors. Gutherson is a great opportunist though, which is why he excels against these teams. But against smarter and better defensive sides we will need to rely more on structure and Gutherson adds little in this style of play.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

How many LBAs does he have that lead to tries? (the answer is 0 - and 0 try assists altogether).

That is incorrect. Plus whether or not a linebreak leads to a try isn't the sole responsibility of the merkin who created the linebreak, any more than missed tackles leading to tries is the responsibility of the merkin who missed the tackle.

Or, to put it another way, if Gutherson breaks the line HIMSELF draws the fullback, and a try is created, how is French putting a bloke into a gap a better result?

We are not talking about the result of any given linebreak, we are talking about playing ability that is represented by aggregated statistics (and extrapolated per game).

Gutherson is perfectly capable of ball playing as a fullback. Just hasn't had the chance 2 wide much this season. He is 2nd in the NRL when it comes to breaking the line himself, and is more than capable of setting up tries.

I think Gutherson's playmaking is his weakest aspect. However he is smart and omnipresent and quick enough. This makes him dangerous in broken play, which is why he excels against the weaker teams.

He's a superior player to French in almost every aspect of the game right now, and should be the fullback for the rest of the season.

I don't disagree he is a better all round player than French, especially in defence. One bonus Gutherson brings in attack is that he is big enough to hold the ball and dig into the line when nothing's on - which is often in our extremely disjointed attack.

Until we get our structure right we are unable to give our fullback any opportunities against strong defence, which is why French and Gutherson have been receiving the ball with numbers in front of them. So it makes sense to use a bigger fullback until we can more consistently create space.

French played his best game of the year as a winger, and that's his spot going forward - let him use his opportunistic skills there to create tries from nothing.

Eleven metres is not any outside back's best game. Merkins are just enamoured of a couple of highlight moments, picking off runners copping the best hospital passes of the year, and his kick chase which is better utilised at fullback now that our short kicking game is warming up.

But against the better teams able to force us into the grind I would have Hoffman or even Auva'a on the wing ahead of French.

At fullback he was stifling our attack with his '5 dummies in a row before dummying to himself' play. It worked once against the Dragons the first time, and hasn't since.

As I said, this is because he himself has been stifled by our lack of quality halves - French played most of his games outside Gutherson after all.

But for LBAs per game French leads our team. That's no accident. He is both wasted outside the spine and contributes too little for a winger.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

The dragons made 6 linebreaks yesterday, including 5 LBAs. It did wonders for them!!

Perhaps LBAs aren't the be-all-and-end-all of attacking ability.

You're looking at one game as if it's the be all and end all of our season. I'm sure you were doing the same last week after the Darwin game.

 

[Pugzley]

 

[Poupou Escobar]

You'd think he would get try assist AND a linebreak assist on that one?

But I just found the problem with the stats I was looking at (on the official NRL website). They are from 2016.
That's hopeless. How can they not have them up to date?!?

Change the drop down to 2017.

 

[oldmancraigy]

But for LBAs per game French leads our team. That's no accident. He is both wasted outside the spine and contributes too little for a winger.

Do you think so?

He contributed quite well as a winger yesterday. Switch he and Gutherson and Gutherson does the early set hitups anyway - generally speaking French will be 3rd in line for hitups behind whomever plays in the 3 positions of fullback and wings.
The try French scored wouldn't have been scored by Hoffman - it was the explosive acceleration to get him to the spot, and then the raw natural talent and finishing ability to scoop up the ball and turn through contact.

Jennings is a major threat and a presence defensively - if our right side defends that well with French on the wing and Moses 3rd in, then he is fine on the wing. His defensive work was 1st rate, and defused the bombs beautifully.
I don't think he will get dropped, which indicates he isn't wasted outside the spine and does contribute enough as a winger.

 

[Happy MEel]

You're looking at one game as if it's the be all and end all of our season. I'm sure you were doing the same last week after the Darwin game.

Hang on, you're arguing French isn't a winger after one game on the wing where he ran for 11m

FYI, last year he played 10 games on the wing for an average of 83.8m. That's a much larger sample size wouldn't you say?

Hypocrit much?

 

[Happy MEel]

You're looking at one game as if it's the be all and end all of our season. I'm sure you were doing the same last week after the Darwin game.

Here are some more stats that aren't based on one game...

This season we have won 4/9 (44% winning average) with French at fullback and 5/6 (83% winning average) with Guth at fullback. Both of them have played four teams that are currently above us on the ladder.

 

[Noise]

Here are some more stats that aren't based on one game...

This season we have won 4/9 (44% winning average) with French at fullback and 5/6 (83% winning average) with Guth at fullback. Both of them have played four teams that are currently above us on the ladder.

But LBA's man! LBAs!!!

 

[Gronk]

 

[Sensei Cobra]

Did we get a penalty for this ?

 

[Dibs]

Our one and only

 

[forward pass]

Did we get a penalty for this ?

yes - we did but the ref said Kenny could not take a quick tap and run because they were concerned for his welfare !!

 

[Poupou Escobar]

I don't think he will get dropped, which indicates he isn't wasted outside the spine and does contribute enough as a winger.

It would certainly indicate Arthur's feels he offers enough but it absolutely doesn't mean he's not wasted. Plenty of players play in suboptimal positions because it's better for the team that way. Cameron Munster's running game is wasted in the halves, as is Corey Norman's. Takairangi's playmaking is wasted at centre, as is Hayne's. Plenty of forwards are wasted in the middle.

 

[84 Baby]

It would certainly indicate Arthur's feels he offers enough but it absolutely doesn't mean he's not wasted. Plenty of players play in suboptimal positions because it's better for the team that way. Cameron Munster's running game is wasted in the halves, as is Corey Norman's. Takairangi's playmaking is wasted at centre, as is Hayne's. Plenty of forwards are wasted in the middle.

Or simply Gunco's all round ability is wasted on wing

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Hang on, you're arguing French isn't a winger after one game on the wing where he ran for 11m

FYI, last year he played 10 games on the wing for an average of 83.8m. That's a much larger sample size wouldn't you say?

Hypocrit much?

I argued he wasn't a winger last year. The stats you've provided indicate this as do Arthur's comments about French being a fullback.

As for why I raised his one run for eleven metres, it was in response to claims it was his best game. As you've shown, there have been games where he's made plenty more metres, and scored more tries, including six in his two games at fullback last year.