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Round 2 v Wabbits

Girds89

Bench
Messages
2,893
I didn't shoot it down, I said in another thread he should be in.

I still think we need to move Tago to the back row, Get someone to start over Kenny then Peachey for Salmon

To put all of the hopes on a player that will see 20 min game time only is an issue

Tago isn't getting moved.

They aren't going to run with two rookie centres next year.
 

Girds89

Bench
Messages
2,893
I didn't shoot it down, I said in another thread he should be in.

I still think we need to move Tago to the back row, Get someone to start over Kenny then Peachey for Salmon

To put all of the hopes on a player that will see 20 min game time only is an issue

Hopefully Ivan had the courage to be flexible with the team ad the year progresses..

Our best 17 certainly isn't as clear cut as previous seasons.

Need to find out what works
 

Girds89

Bench
Messages
2,893
I might be in the minority but I think it's a matter of getting game time and polishing combinations and timing that's needed rather than all this positional switch talk.

I agree in regards to soni Luke.. he's style is much different to what the boys are used to.. he likes to run and challenge the line with forwards running off him. Way moreso than what api did. Api picked and chose his moments. And api still played to the structure

Luke's style is different and he should be encouraged to play the eyes up style he likes.

That will take the boys time to adjust but it should be great when they do

As for the rest of the 17 I think we need just a bit more x factor.. how we get that into the side is to early to tell.

Maybe it's not changing players bit letting players offload more..

We generally aren't an offloading team. But we are going to need to do things a bit different this year..

I don't think the book should be shut on anything. That's why I like the idea of soro getting a chance for an extended period at training and maybe some time in games if the situation is right at 2nd row... the upsides far outweigh the downsides it it works
 

Iamback

Coach
Messages
17,183
Tago isn't getting moved.

They aren't going to run with two rookie centres next year.

No because if Cole or Jenkins gets enough games now then he won't be a rookie next year

Who is the next 2nd rower up then?

If Salmon is going to play 20+ mins as a back rower, Then Garner is better off as that Utility role.

Jenkins speed or Cole's ball playing offers something to the attack unlike Chris Smith or Hoskings
 

WestyLife

First Grade
Messages
6,141
I agree in regards to soni Luke.. he's style is much different to what the boys are used to.. he likes to run and challenge the line with forwards running off him. Way moreso than what api did. Api picked and chose his moments. And api still played to the structure

Luke's style is different and he should be encouraged to play the eyes up style he likes.

That will take the boys time to adjust but it should be great when they do

As for the rest of the 17 I think we need just a bit more x factor.. how we get that into the side is to early to tell.

Maybe it's not changing players bit letting players offload more..

We generally aren't an offloading team. But we are going to need to do things a bit different this year..

I don't think the book should be shut on anything. That's why I like the idea of soro getting a chance for an extended period at training and maybe some time in games if the situation is right at 2nd row... the upsides far outweigh the downsides it it works

Ivan said pre game he wanted them to play more freely or whatever words he used. I'd say he agrees and expects the players we have to provide exactly what you're asking for. Can they? I'd say rep halves definitely should be able to on the back of the momentum they get given every game. The reality may be different but I'd give it a few weeks. If garner still looks like a Tiger then change him.
 

Girds89

Bench
Messages
2,893
No because if Cole or Jenkins gets enough games now then he won't be a rookie next year

Who is the next 2nd rower up then?

If Salmon is going to play 20+ mins as a back rower, Then Garner is better off as that Utility role.

Jenkins speed or Cole's ball playing offers something to the attack unlike Chris Smith or Hoskings

15 or so games this year doesn't make them not a rookie. It takes a good two years of routine fg to fully become used to the rigours of weekly nrl.

Tago can be one of the best centres in the nrl.

I like cole. He's a real goer and clearly has a big future. I'm not sure Jenkins is nrl quality but he will get his chance and we will see how he goes.

Tiny always carved up when playing centre in nsw cup so that will be a possible option there next year.

Next 2nd rower up for me? Well as I said in a previous post if your good enough your old enough. See how Teague goes this weekend.

But for mine mav should be the next man up. He's offloading ability adds something we don't really have atm. Sure he'd be raw but what I saw from him in the flegg gf showed that he can go up another level.
 

Girds89

Bench
Messages
2,893
Ivan said pre game he wanted them to play more freely or whatever words he used. I'd say he agrees and expects the players we have to provide exactly what you're asking for. Can they? I'd say rep halves definitely should be able to on the back of the momentum they get given every game. The reality may be different but I'd give it a few weeks. If garner still looks like a Tiger then change him.

Yeah garner deserves the first 6 or so rounds. I just hope others are training there too. Obviously hosking will be..

I hope mav is getting lots of reps with the top team..

I hope cleary let's them play with more and more freedom. Only have to watch the start of the sharks eels game to see how dangerous good offloads can be.
 

betcats

Referee
Messages
23,474
I can't remember the last time Sorensen played there? He certainly hasn't started there in the last 2 years to my memory? You thrown out all the his filled in here and there but can you actually say when he last played there? I'd genuinely like to know. I'd watch a replay just to see how he went.

Garner has played on an edge his whole career.

Sorensen has had a handful of games there...

Not writing anyone off but I think with a solid crack at it there and training there he'd be really good. I've said 2 or 3 times on here I'd be happy for garner to fire.

I've praised him for the improvement last night.

As for soro and his previous time at 2nd row for us here and there....bit hard to do well there when you train all week to play middle and you just have to fill in for an injury here or there.

I'd like to see us get creative for that edge spot.

When garner comes off try soro or Spencer there just in the attacking 30m area.

So far in two games tago and Tito have seem no quality ball.. no space.

I find it hard that fans are just willing to 'cop' that because garner isn't kikau..

Me personally want to see that edge as dangerous as possible. Clean good ball for tago to do his thing.

There's no harm in putting soro there.... let him train there during the week.

And instead of moving a half spent Martin as a stop gap solution after 60 mins... try soro there throughout the game. See how he goes.

Give him 6 or so weeks to see if he can adjust to an edge. If it works and he can play as well on an edge as he has for us in the middle over the last two years than you beauty!! He is clearly very hard to tackle... the big boys struggle with his power and speed in the middle. He steamroll some half's.

If it doesn't work out than it's not like we don't half cover for the middle whilst he's playing on an edge.

Fish is a big minute player. Leota can almost go two 30min stints. Spencer is crying out for more mins... Kenny plays the middle forward role really well and keeps up our defence intensity..

I've got nothing against garner.

I just look at our side and think that's where we need a bit of strike power.. whether that's something of the bench or starting to early to tell..

The hooker situation I think will sort itself out once Ivan starts to trust Luke more.

In the time he’s been here(this is his 3rd year) he’s started there and played plenty of minutes there before he shifted to middle. You can look at my comments on him going back at least 12 months I’ve been saying he’s much better in the middle than on an edge. In the middle he has impact, on the edge he has always been average. On top of that moving him means bringing huth into the middle rotation which weakens it as Huth is not as good as sorro there. Id much rather leave our middle as is and give garner the 6 weeks to adjust rather than weaken our middle by moving sorro in the hope he can do something on the edge. He’s played plenty of edge and never been more than solid, he was always looked at as an average player until we moved him to the middle.
 

WestyLife

First Grade
Messages
6,141
Yeah garner deserves the first 6 or so rounds. I just hope others are training there too. Obviously hosking will be..

I hope mav is getting lots of reps with the top team..

I hope cleary let's them play with more and more freedom. Only have to watch the start of the sharks eels game to see how dangerous good offloads can be.

Hopgood having fun with the sharks defence.
 

Iamback

Coach
Messages
17,183
I might be in the minority but I think it's a matter of getting game time and polishing combinations and timing that's needed rather than all this positional switch talk.

Nothing wrong with that view point.

Though who is going to develop an offload or a passing game?

Premiers are in the top 2 teams in attack and defence.

The only exception was us in 2021. We ave 28 a game though and would of been the best attack any other year.

So outside of a huge development we need to find something more
 

Iamback

Coach
Messages
17,183
15 or so games this year doesn't make them not a rookie. It takes a good two years of routine fg to fully become used to the rigours of weekly nrl.

Tago can be one of the best centres in the nrl.

I like cole. He's a real goer and clearly has a big future. I'm not sure Jenkins is nrl quality but he will get his chance and we will see how he goes.

Tiny always carved up when playing centre in nsw cup so that will be a possible option there next year.

Next 2nd rower up for me? Well as I said in a previous post if your good enough your old enough. See how Teague goes this weekend.

But for mine mav should be the next man up. He's offloading ability adds something we don't really have atm. Sure he'd be raw but what I saw from him in the flegg gf showed that he can go up another level.

Mav who played prop on the weekend? Not sure he will make an edge
 

Girds89

Bench
Messages
2,893
In the time he’s been here(this is his 3rd year) he’s started there and played plenty of minutes there before he shifted to middle. You can look at my comments on him going back at least 12 months I’ve been saying he’s much better in the middle than on an edge. In the middle he has impact, on the edge he has always been average. On top of that moving him means bringing huth into the middle rotation which weakens it as Huth is not as good as sorro there. Id much rather leave our middle as is and give garner the 6 weeks to adjust rather than weaken our middle by moving sorro in the hope he can do something on the edge. He’s played plenty of edge and never been more than solid, he was always looked at as an average player until we moved him to the middle.

Honestly he's played a handful of games on an edge his whole time here.

For 95% of the time the last two years his been used as an impact bench middle. I've got no doubt that's how he has trained.

Given how much he has improved over the last 3 years here... consistent improvement every year...

With a bit of training and consistent match time there I'm confident he'd kill it.

As I said it's very hard to look good when you are just filling in there for mid game injuries.

Your saying he's always been avg on the edge.... never really had a chance there tho.

That's just fact.. by your own account he's filled in there for injuries... primarily played middle.

2020 and 21 Capewell was an 80 minute player for us. Kiks a big minute player.. we used to have Martin on the bench.

22 marto and kiks played big minutes with salmon as the rotation guy..

He has played limited minutes on an edge when injuries have hit..

Hardly time to build combos and develop.

Seems weird to put a line through him there Given how good he's been for us and how much he has improved.
 

betcats

Referee
Messages
23,474
Honestly he's played a handful of games on an edge his whole time here.

For 95% of the time the last two years his been used as an impact bench middle. I've got no doubt that's how he has trained.

Given how much he has improved over the last 3 years here... consistent improvement every year...

With a bit of training and consistent match time there I'm confident he'd kill it.

As I said it's very hard to look good when you are just filling in there for mid game injuries.

Your saying he's always been avg on the edge.... never really had a chance there tho.

That's just fact.. by your own account he's filled in there for injuries... primarily played middle.

2020 and 21 Capewell was an 80 minute player for us. Kiks a big minute player.. we used to have Martin on the bench.

22 marto and kiks played big minutes with salmon as the rotation guy..

He has played limited minutes on an edge when injuries have hit..

Hardly time to build combos and develop.

Seems weird to put a line through him there Given how good he's been for us and how much he has improved.

He played most of his career on the edge was never anything other than bog average, a bench or depth player. He’s been here since 2021 and played enough there for me to form the opinion he’s much better in the middle.
 

Girds89

Bench
Messages
2,893
Nothing wrong with that view point.

Though who is going to develop an offload or a passing game?

Premiers are in the top 2 teams in attack and defence.

The only exception was us in 2021. We ave 28 a game though and would of been the best attack any other year.

So outside of a huge development we need to find something more

That's my train of thought to..

People think we can just keep continuing to play panthers ball and win..

We need to develop and evolve.

Same old structures and plays..

south's were without a few of their guns last night..

Broncs without Walsh last week.

We won't be successful if we just expect to win playing the way we have the last 2 years.
 
Messages
3,723
Garner has been playing with a plod team since he entered first grade. Lets not compare him to Kikau or expect him to be an instant success. Lets not forget that Kikau had lean years with us. Capewell was always banging on the door and the sharks paid dearly for that error in Judgement. He took 11 rounds to become consistent in his first season with us.

Garner has size, speed and knows how to run a line. He's an 80 minute player and can ball play. Notice how he rarely gets put on the ground or on his back? He isn't a superstar but he is a good player. I watch most games and he was always putting in, doing his job in a shit team with reserve grade halves. Give him time.

Lets revisit this at the halfway point. I think he will be a lot better.
He can also move to the centres and do a serviceable job mid game. There will come a time when that is a huge benefit at some stage during the year.
 

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