Round 20 v The Northern Beaches Scum

[Exsilium]

CHN has been average. His defence has been woeful.

 

[Abacus]

What did Brandy say? I hope Griffin isn't rushing players back or the players themselves rushing.

Brandy was on MMM after the game sounding like someone had just run over his dog. I think Wendall wanted to talk up Kikau but Brandy was giving him nothing.

Said along the lines that a couple of players should not have played and need to get over injuries. No names nor who made the call - coach or players. But seemed very unimpressed that players playing injured were affecting the team's performance.

 

[martielang]

How often do our halves hit our centres with a nice ball in good attacking position? That’s the difference, for 2 and a half years we have been to flat to consistently get quality ball to our centres in good field position and when they do usually the defence is all over them already. Last season our backrowers were scoring more than our centres for this reason alone, the centres are being taken out of our play most of the time because we want to play flat and get over the advantage line as soon as the hooker has the ball. It’s why we can look deadly powering up the field and then completely clueless when we get to the redzone. We’ve all been talking about this issue for years and yet I bring it up after a perfect example of it and I get rocket scientist like Martie who’s never have an original opinion about our play telling me it’s a which hunt. If Griffin decided to pick Leota at fb this week Martie would be on here trying to justify it.

The eagles have the second worst defence in the league.

It’s weird how personally you take everything.

I had issue with 3 or 4 people saying the players threw the game plan out the window & that’s why we won etc etc I asked what was different in the last 15 mins in regards to structure & Game plan, cos I personally couldn’t see anything different. Imo we scored off set plays we’ve used numerous times this year & that game, we just started executing & playing with a bit of fire. Instead of answering the question or having a civil discussion you went on an irrelevant tirade taking things I said completely out of context (or just making them up) & hoping your panther forum bros would back you up without actually taking the time to read what I had said.

 

[betcats]

It’s weird how personally you take everything.

I had issue with 3 or 4 people saying the players threw the game plan out the window & that’s why we won etc etc I asked what was different in the last 15 mins in regards to structure & Game plan, cos I personally couldn’t see anything different. Imo we scored off set plays we’ve used numerous times this year & that game, we just started executing & playing with a bit of fire. Instead of answering the question or having a civil discussion you went on an irrelevant tirade taking things I said completely out of context (or just making them up) & hoping your panther forum bros would back you up without actually taking the time to read what I had said.

I take the panthers personally. The coaching is sub par im sick hearing the same old excuses for hook. Get rid of the muppet he is never going to get it done.

He’s had three seasons to do something and we are still just relying on natural talent and opposition fade outs to win games. Against bottom four sides no less, at least the last two years we’d carve a few of the shit teams up.

 

[OldPanther]

Brandy was on MMM after the game sounding like someone had just run over his dog. I think Wendall wanted to talk up Kikau but Brandy was giving him nothing.

Said along the lines that a couple of players should not have played and need to get over injuries. No names nor who made the call - coach or players. But seemed very unimpressed that players playing injured were affecting the team's performance.

Thanks.

 

[betcats]

Brandy was on MMM after the game sounding like someone had just run over his dog. I think Wendall wanted to talk up Kikau but Brandy was giving him nothing.

Said along the lines that a couple of players should not have played and need to get over injuries. No names nor who made the call - coach or players. But seemed very unimpressed that players playing injured were affecting the team's performance.

Who do you think made the call? If it’s the players deciding who plays and who doesn’t things with hook worse than even I thought lol you are so desperate to avoid putting any stink on Griffin you don’t make sense.

 

[herbert henry1908]

Sterlo has a point about our forwards, but what he misses is dominant forwards were papering over our lack of game plans. The attack when our forwards are dominating is the same style as when they’re not, particularly Nathan Cleary. You need a back up plan or some idea on how to break down your opponents defence.

Probably the player most affected when our forwards don’t dominate is Maloney. But there’s little evidence of any type of plan other than to have our forwards dominate. Obviously that’s a huge part of the game, but give us something else, a plan B.

 

[Abacus]

Who do you think made the call? If it’s the players deciding who plays and who doesn’t things with hook worse than even I thought lol you are so desperate to avoid putting any stink on Griffin you don’t make sense.

Griffin is your agenda, not mine.

Again, just providing statements from people far more knowledgeable than you or I. Twist it how you like, you're the amateur lobbyist here.

 

[betcats]

Griffin is your agenda, not mine.

Again, just providing statements from people far more knowledgeable than you or I. Twist it how you like, you're the amateur lobbyist here.

Yeah righto typical I got nothing response.

Penrith must be the only club in the game where the head coach doesn’t take responsibility for picking the team. That must be the players responsibility right?

Seriously who do you think picked the team this week??

What the f**k.

 

[Aliceinwonderland]

It’s weird how personally you take everything.

I had issue with 3 or 4 people saying the players threw the game plan out the window & that’s why we won etc etc I asked what was different in the last 15 mins in regards to structure & Game plan, cos I personally couldn’t see anything different. Imo we scored off set plays we’ve used numerous times this year & that game, we just started executing & playing with a bit of fire. Instead of answering the question or having a civil discussion you went on an irrelevant tirade taking things I said completely out of context (or just making them up) & hoping your panther forum bros would back you up without actually taking the time to read what I had said.

What changed was a building of confidence (the players after the game admitted as much)

They ran harder, pushed up harder in both defence and attack,

The game plan didn't change at all. The players just implimented better that's all.

 

[Abacus]

Yeah righto typical I got nothing response.

Penrith must be the only club in the game where the head coach doesn’t take responsibility for picking the team. That must be the players responsibility right?

What the f**k.

Who said Griffin didn't take responsibility - quote please.

Just if you get time around the emotional bullshit that you spew.

 

[Abacus]

Sterlo has a point about our forwards, but what he misses is dominant forwards were papering over our lack of game plans. The attack when our forwards are dominating is the same style as when they’re not, particularly Nathan Cleary. You need a back up plan or some idea on how to break down your opponents defence.

Probably the player most affected when our forwards don’t dominate is Maloney. But there’s little evidence of any type of plan other than to have our forwards dominate. Obviously that’s a huge part of the game, but give us something else, a plan B.

Fair points. Although I think the same goes for most teams. Even the Sharks the other night didn't win the forward battle and they struggled. Souths against Tigers last week too.

Pretty uncommon for teams to win with a beaten pack. It would be nice for us to be able to though.

 

[herbert henry1908]

Fair points. Although I think the same goes for most teams. Even the Sharks the other night didn't win the forward battle and they struggled. Souths against Tigers last week too.

Pretty uncommon for teams to win with a beaten pack. It would be nice for us to be able to though.

There’s a middle ground though. It seems like we need our forwards to really dominate to win or to at least not fall far behind, but what happens when there’s an even forward battle?

I absolutely agree a forward pack dominating is the easiest path to a victory, just feel we need something else if we’re going to make the next step.

 

[OldPanther]

There’s a middle ground though. It seems like we need our forwards to really dominate to win or to at least not fall far behind, but what happens when there’s an even forward battle?

I absolutely agree a forward pack dominating is the easiest path to a victory, just feel we need something else if we’re going to make the next step.

Yeah we don't play the grind well

 

[age.s]

Fair points. Although I think the same goes for most teams. Even the Sharks the other night didn't win the forward battle and they struggled. Souths against Tigers last week too.

Pretty uncommon for teams to win with a beaten pack. It would be nice for us to be able to though.

Thing is the forwards doing well isn't a thing that happens in a vacuum. The spine, particularly the 9 and halves have a huge role in getting the forwards ball in a manner that allows them to keep rolling forward. Putting players into half breaks (opposed to hospital balls), getting repeat sets (opposed to nothing grubbers on the third) or even just kicking for touch after you've spent 3 sets defending (something we never do). All of these things help the forwards with their energy and by extension sap their opposition and (though it's probably a coaching thing) our halves haven't been doing those things (Katoa has been good though). Maloneys penalties and missed tackles have been contributing in the other direction these past few weeks too.

 

[Abacus]

There’s a middle ground though. It seems like we need our forwards to really dominate to win or to at least not fall far behind, but what happens when there’s an even forward battle?

I absolutely agree a forward pack dominating is the easiest path to a victory, just feel we need something else if we’re going to make the next step.

Maybe our Plan B was the last 15 minutes against Manly?

Seriously though, I agree and would love to see our team develop to that level. In some ways that comes down to the player(s) identifying that the game plan is not working and being smart/experienced enough to change mid-game and lead the team through that change. Ideally this would come from our halves but over the past few years I think only Smith and Thurston have been capable of this.

 

[The Realist]

Looking at the extended 16:49 Highlights through my critical lense.

00:39 Leota with a silly penalty gifts Manly 2. He has one of these in him just about every game.

00:49 CHN rushes out of the line…misses. Moses tries to cover but can’t Maloney also was a little lazy in the lead up and misses the covering tackle.

01:58 Nice sweeping set play that got a little trashed by a few things. 1 – Kikau didn’t hold the ball long enough to draw more defenders to open up Waqa. 2 – Waqa throws a wild offload pass that could end up anywhere.

2:58 Whare scores after a nice lead up where both Cleary and Peachy draw just enough interest from the defence to open a touch of space.

3:51 Silly option by Whare. He passes that infield instead of that hospital pass that was always going to lead to DWZ getting pushed out and we’d have had a decent chance of score (and not last possession if we didn’t).

4:35 shitty kick close to the line by Cleary but that is neither here nor there. Sometimes it is luck, sometimes good play by the defenders.

At around 4:40 Marty Tapou’s big run. Kikau straight up misses a tackle BUT take a look a the lead up. Maloney rushes out too far and leaves Kikau exposed and a huge gap should Billy miss the tackle. Kikau get the black mark for a bad missed tackle, but that was as much Maloneys fault as Billys.

At 5:30ish CHN had just made a tackle. The Manly hooker goes searching but CHN was lazy in plugging the hole. A right foot step and Manly score their first as CHN makes a piss poor effort. Katoa was slightly out of position and slipped but that was mostly on CHN. He has a little too much of that in him lately.

Hetherington Friendly fire on Katoa then at 7:33 rushes out of the line where May, Waqa AND Merrin all fail to bring down Kelly. CHN gets burnt a little here, tries the ankle tap but this is not on him, the other 4 are far more culpable. DCE scores Manly’s 2nd.

Manly scores at 8:55 but there isn’t much we could do there. Manly’s line speed was too much. The fault here if any is that we allowed too quick a play the ball and our line wasn’t set. This is where experienced, smart and well coached teams like the storm concede a penalty rather than a try.

Manly’s 4th was a freak bounce but again we were not numbering up well in the 2 lead up tackles on our defensive right side.

11:27 Maloney out on the full. His form has turned to shit.

11:40 Tamou gives away a silly penalty. No need for that.

11:53 Good try to us. Note how we set up quite deep. 3 Very good passes here…Katoa to Maloney. Maloney cuts out Peachey to Waqa who then makes a crazy pass/offload. That play also had 3 decoys. Very unusual for us!

12:51 again some depth as Billy cuts through the line. Quick taps then gets pulled back? No matter as he is back at it again soon after cuts through Manly with footwork and power. Nice support play by Cleary there.


The biggest overall theme I have noticed with our team is how we have gone from one of the best defensive teams punctuated by the St George win...to very ordinary. I think the injury to RCG seems to be to blame....he just fires our entire forward pack up and their aggression lifts with his. That and certain laziness from Maloney and CHN. May also seems like he is off the pace defensively.

 

[Abacus]

Thing is the forwards doing well isn't a thing that happens in a vacuum. The spine, particularly the 9 and halves have a huge role in getting the forwards ball in a manner that allows them to keep rolling forward. Putting players into half breaks (opposed to hospital balls), getting repeat sets (opposed to nothing grubbers on the third) or even just kicking for touch after you've spent 3 sets defending (something we never do). All of these things help the forwards with their energy and by extension sap their opposition and (though it's probably a coaching thing) our halves haven't been doing those things (Katoa has been good though). Maloneys penalties and missed tackles have been contributing in the other direction these past few weeks too.

Interestingly the lack of go forward contributes to each of these things where a half's time is taken away from them - a bit of a vicious cycle. Agreed that it is up to the halves or hooker to buy some rest time for their forwards.

I'm not yet convinced on Katoa. No doubt his service from dummy half is first rate but I don't think he's delivering in defence yet. I think we're missing our regular legs tackler - the job Wallace always did for us. Katoa seems to be in the habit of going high which can result in us having 3 defenders tackling high while the player is gaining ground. I think we need Katoa taking this role on.

I can't argue about Maloney's last few weeks. As I said earlier, I'd be giving him this week off and playing May against the Raiders.

 

[mxlegend99]

What changed was a building of confidence (the players after the game admitted as much)

They ran harder, pushed up harder in both defence and attack,

The game plan didn't change at all. The players just implimented better that's all.

How many offloads occured in the first 60 minutes against how many in the final 20?

Mansour scored off a Blake offload. Blake scored off a Kikau offload. Offloads were barely part of our game until the final 20 minutes. They certainly weren't offloading like that in the first 60 minutes.

They threw caution to the wind and played naturally. It was a lot more than the same game plan only running harder. If ghat was the issue it woild have been easily fixed at halftime.

Apparently even Gus making mention of it being natural talent coming through isnt enough.

 

[Pomoz]

There’s a middle ground though. It seems like we need our forwards to really dominate to win or to at least not fall far behind, but what happens when there’s an even forward battle?

I absolutely agree a forward pack dominating is the easiest path to a victory, just feel we need something else if we’re going to make the next step.

Well, to be fair, our backs have consisted of ISP players and fill ins for a large chunk of the season. Against Manly, we had the old firm back on the wings and our proper centres for one of the few times this season. Guess what, when it came down to the wire it was those players that won us the game by finishing off tries. Put Crichton and Phillips on the wings and Yeo or CHN back in the centres and we lose that game.

I don't think we know what this team is capable of because it has never played together more than a few games.