Round 7 V Souths

[Kilkenny]

But we were told that referees don’t look at penalty counts or change the way they ref to even up penalty counts.

The point I’m trying to make is it is much more beneficial to get e penalty for say a ruck infringement when in possession 10 metres out from your own line as oppposed to a penalty for the same infringement 10 metres out from your opponents line on the second tackle. Not meaning to labour the point but the two penalties the Bunnies received for the JFH double movement and Sam Burgess crusher were massive momentum shifts in a close contest.

 

[franklin2323]

Halligan 1/5, Alexander 4/5. It was the Major Semi Final. Both kickers had penalty kicks in the last 15, Alexander got his with his head spinning after collecting Peter Jackson's hip in the Bears final try (no HIA in '91), Halligan missed from a much easier position.

I thought so. No doubt we had a great team but you can't win without luck

 

[TheFrog]

I thought so. No doubt we had a great team but you can't win without luck

We had a fullback come off the bench in that game who made Carige look like Billy Slater. But yes, we were lucky Greg was on-line and Halligan wasn't.

 

[Panfa]

If i was ivan cleary i would have gone for 15 or 20k in the press conference after our loss to souths.Ashley klein needs to be pulled into line and if we dont bring the issues to annesleys attention hes just gonna keep pumping us every time he refs us.Last 8 games under him we have lost and 21 out of 28 total losses is ridiculous.I dont think any other team in the nrl losses more penalty counts at home then us.Throw in forward passes knock ons double movements no tries we dont get any favours from the refs these days.

 

[billypilgrimnz]

It's not to our benefit that the Raiders lost today.

 

[Abacus]

Finally watched the replay - reffing not that bad overall but touchies might have had their eyes painted on:

• Souths 2nd try looked suss but touchie was not in position after chasing the Souths backline.
• Surgess definitely knocked on in the play before Souths last try - again I think it was the touchie's call.

On the JFH double-movement, not sure that it was anything more than getting ready to get off the deck. Certainly no try appeal from JFH or anyone else. Souths FB Johnson points out the ball on the line, penalty from Klein.

Otherwise:

• Thought Katoa's knee slide was worthy of a possible 8-point try. Otherwise he was good.
• Mansour cost us through his dropped ball and poor wing play (defense and support).
• RCG instrumental in Souths 3rd try with back-to-back penalties (1st a strip then a high shot).
• Blake needs to work on catching the attacking kicks.
• I liked DWZ at centre providing a strong runner on the right, allowing Blake to go back to the left. Also provides a viable target for attacking kicks to the right.

 

[franklin2323]

Finally watched the replay - reffing not that bad overall but touchies might have had their eyes painted on:

• Souths 2nd try looked suss but touchie was not in position after chasing the Souths backline.
• Surgess definitely knocked on in the play before Souths last try - again I think it was the touchie's call.

On the JFH double-movement, not sure that it was anything more than getting ready to get off the deck. Certainly no try appeal from JFH or anyone else. Souths FB Johnson points out the ball on the line, penalty from Klein.

Otherwise:

• Thought Katoa's knee slide was worthy of a possible 8-point try. Otherwise he was good.
• Mansour cost us through his dropped ball and poor wing play (defense and support).
• RCG instrumental in Souths 3rd try with back-to-back penalties (1st a strip then a high shot).
• Blake needs to work on catching the attacking kicks.
• I liked DWZ at centre providing a strong runner on the right, allowing Blake to go back to the left. Also provides a viable target for attacking kicks to the right.

Always get balance from you. Good post

 

[The Realist]

• Blake needs to work on catching the attacking kicks.

I think Blake has been training to bat those kicks back towards our line in the hope we gain possession and sneak through in broken play. The way he jumps and bats it back is also almost reminiscent of a Union line out.

 

[franklin2323]

I think Blake has been training to bat those kicks back towards our line in the hope we gain possession and sneak through in broken play. The way he jumps and bats it back is also almost reminiscent of a Union line out.

Just another example of going for the glory play instead of doing the basics

 

[Scotty03]

Always get balance from you. Good post

You're a dead set flog. As soon as someone else highlights anything negative to fuel your BS theory that they are all pretenders, you get a hard on and believe it's a good post.

Are we premiership contenders right this min? Prob not, but does every post of yours have to be projectile vomit over the team?

You speak of balance, however don't think you understand what the word means. Can only see out of your one negative eye.

I bash the team like everyone does. The difference is I also BALANCE it with a few words of hope and silver linings.

Stop frothing over our losses like it's you're time to come in and say "I told you so."

Flog.

 

[franklin2323]

You're a dead set flog. As soon as someone else highlights anything negative to fuel your BS theory that they are all pretenders, you get a hard on and believe it's a good post.

Are we premiership contenders right this min? Prob not, but does every post of yours have to be projectile vomit over the team?

You speak of balance, however don't think you understand what the word means. Can only see out of your one negative eye.

I bash the team like everyone does. The difference is I also BALANCE it with a few words of hope and silver linings.

Stop frothing over our losses like it's you're time to come in and say "I told you so."

Flog.

No one forces you to read my stuff hit the ignore button simple.

I hardly comment over the losses usually. It was the everyone saying it was the refs fault that got me riled up.

As for Positive. Lower grades show there is positive things around. Just not in the top end of things

 

[Scotty03]

No one forces you to read my stuff hit the ignore button simple.

I hardly comment over the losses usually. It was the everyone saying it was the refs fault that got me riled up.

As for Positive. Lower grades show there is positive things around. Just not in the top end of things

Hang on, you made a comment on the teams lack of performance before you even watched the game!

In EVERY sport, refs can influence the outcome of a game indirectly by making decisions at critical stages. The NRL is no different.

The problem I have is you are so "riled up" on comments made about the refs (which I actually agree had a large impact to the game - not necessarily handed Souths the win but made it even more difficult for us to do so), that you call the team pretenders, and make judgement on how we did or didn't play without even seeing what happened.

The fact you can do this shows you're more interested in jumping on the "panthers are rubbish, have been for years" bandwagon than making your judgement on the actual events (which still prob would have been negative from you anyway.)

Your the pretender.

 

[franklin2323]

Hang on, you made a comment on the teams lack of performance before you even watched the game!

In EVERY sport, refs can influence the outcome of a game indirectly by making decisions at critical stages. The NRL is no different.

The problem I have is you are so "riled up" on comments made about the refs (which I actually agree had a large impact to the game - not necessarily handed Souths the win but made it even more difficult for us to do so), that you call the team pretenders, and make judgement on how we did or didn't play without even seeing what happened.

The fact you can do this shows you're more interested in jumping on the "panthers are rubbish, have been for years" bandwagon than making your judgement on the actual events (which still prob would have been negative from you anyway.)

Your the pretender.

Finishing bottom of the 8 masked a few things. New coach seems to be unable to sort

Lets look at Penalties conceded:

2017 - 5th
2018- 1st
2019 - 3rd

Missed tackles

2017- 1st
2018 - 1st
2019- 1st

Ineffective tackles

2017 - 1st
2018 - 2nd
Sitting mid table this year so getting better

Most Errors

2017 - 3rd
2018 - 8th
2019- 3rd

Completion rate

2017- 10th
2018 - 12th
2019 - 16th

So how is that not ordinary over a few year period? Individual skill and fitness got us a few more wins then we should of.

Yes a new coach but:

Only once in 11 years has he coached a team to top 4.
least win % out of any coach ever to coach 300 games
never has a coach won a maiden title after coaching 250 games.

So you may disagree and I am sure others will but there is plenty of stuff to agree with my view. Doesn't mean it is right

Saying they are pretenders is harsh but they seem to take easy options.

Like the penalty against Grant. 3rd tackle why rake at the ball? Just get into the the grind and go from that.

We get it back to 2 points. Again RCG gives away 2 penalties not needed and gives them an easy out.

This is same sort of stuff we were doing to fall behind last year

 

[Scotty03]

Finishing bottom of the 8 masked a few things. New coach seems to be unable to sort

Lets look at Penalties conceded:

2017 - 5th
2018- 1st
2019 - 3rd

Missed tackles

2017- 1st
2018 - 1st
2019- 1st

Ineffective tackles

2017 - 1st
2018 - 2nd
Sitting mid table this year so getting better

Most Errors

2017 - 3rd
2018 - 8th
2019- 3rd

Completion rate

2017- 10th
2018 - 12th
2019 - 16th

So how is that not ordinary over a few year period? Individual skill and fitness got us a few more wins then we should of.

Yes a new coach but:

Only once in 11 years has he coached a team to top 4.
least win % out of any coach ever
never has a coach won a maiden title after coaching 250 games.

So you may disagree and I am sure others will but there is plenty of stuff to agree with my view. Doesn't mean it is right

Saying they are pretenders is harsh but they seem to take easy options.

Like the penalty against Grant. 3rd tackle why rake at the ball? Just get into the the grind and go from that.

We get it back to 2 points. Again RCG gives away 2 penalties not needed and gives them an easy out.

This is same sort of stuff we were doing to fall behind last year

Clearly history shows we are well behind in key areas. No doubting that - something I've been harping on about also (missed tackles, errors etc.)

Penalties I don't think are as straight forward. We've also used them for tactical reasons and have prob 2-3 players in the last few years contributing to most (Merrin, Maloney comes to mind.)

While some of your points may have merit, I see you making judgement on things you either haven't seen or hasn't happened yet, and while you can do and say what you like on that matter, I also have the same right to question why you even follow the team if you have this sense of them never being good enough or even have a pipe dream of them being good enough.

The souths game was far different to the last game. The last one was different to the one before. Some deserve the harsh criticism, but not all. It appears you don't know how to separate the two.

 

[franklin2323]

Clearly history shows we are well behind in key areas. No doubting that - something I've been harping on about also (missed tackles, errors etc.)

Penalties I don't think are as straight forward. We've also used them for tactical reasons and have prob 2-3 players in the last few years contributing to most (Merrin, Maloney comes to mind.)

While some of your points may have merit, I see you making judgement on things you either haven't seen or hasn't happened yet, and while you can do and say what you like on that matter, I also have the same right to question why you even follow the team if you have this sense of them never being good enough or even have a pipe dream of them being good enough.

The souths game was far different to the last game. The last one was different to the one before. Some deserve the harsh criticism, but not all. It appears you don't know how to separate the two.

IF Ivan and Nathan live up to what the club sees in them we will be good. Imo we need a year or 2 of finishing lower on the table to make certain players not believe the hype and put in the hard work

No doubt it was better in some areas like ball control but still dumb errors. Like RCG back to back penalties. Allowing a try

MWZ throwing an intercept then next time with the ball doing the exact same.

3 simple drops inside the 20 attacking.

Very similar to last year the win would of papered over the cracks. There was something to build on lets see if it happens

 

[Scotty03]

IF Ivan and Nathan live up to what the club sees in them we will be good. Imo we need a year or 2 of finishing lower on the table to make certain players not believe the hype and put in the hard work

No doubt it was better in some areas like ball control but still dumb errors. Like RCG back to back penalties. Allowing a try

MWZ throwing an intercept then next time with the ball doing the exact same.

3 simple drops inside the 20 attacking.

Very similar to last year the win would of papered over the cracks. There was something to build on lets see if it happens

Actually agree with you, although I don't feel it 100% necessary to finish lower on the table to wake players up. It's up to the coaching staff to instill that hunger in them and that's what I expect in Ivan. He needs to deliver on this now. No 2nd chances after this contract.

 

[franklin2323]

Actually agree with you, although I don't feel it 100% necessary to finish lower on the table to wake players up. It's up to the coaching staff to instill that hunger in them and that's what I expect in Ivan. He needs to deliver on this now. No 2nd chances after this contract.

To be fair to Ivan. The players were great juniors. Came straight into FG and won so probably expect it too happen. Throw in this being Gus and Hook's squad we won't see the best for another season or 2. How good that best is the question

 

[Pomoz]

Finishing bottom of the 8 masked a few things. New coach seems to be unable to sort

Lets look at Penalties conceded:

2017 - 5th
2018- 1st
2019 - 3rd

Missed tackles

2017- 1st
2018 - 1st
2019- 1st

Ineffective tackles

2017 - 1st
2018 - 2nd
Sitting mid table this year so getting better

Most Errors

2017 - 3rd
2018 - 8th
2019- 3rd

Completion rate

2017- 10th
2018 - 12th
2019 - 16th

Interesting post. A philosopher said " Those who do not learn history are doomed to repeat it". Sure enough, here we are with terrible discipline and ball control. RCG, Yeo, Maloney, Leota it's the same people for penalties. Drop them. Errors. Mansour, Blake, DWZ. Drop them.

We will never improve if we accept this crap. Bellamy would have roasted them. Bennett would have dropped them. If dropping good players means we lose a few games, I don't care. We need to break this cycle of poor discipline and errors. You can't do it by coaching, clearly that has failed. Now we need to drop players. A last tackle penalty should be instant reggies.

The refs may be negative against us sometimes, but is it any wonder? We have form. We are mugs.

One point of discussion. Is the poor discipline because we miss tackles and then in the scramble to preserve our line we commit penalties? Or, are the penalties giving the opposition extra possession and so we tackle more and end up fatigued and start missing tackles?

Last year when were super fit, we still gave away penalties. I think we are just mugs. Too many lazy players.

 

[TheFrog]

never has a coach won a maiden title after coaching 250 games.

Very risky quoting Paul Kent. As I pointed out the other day John Lang won his only title in his 271st game.

 

[TheFrog]

On the JFH double-movement, not sure that it was anything more than getting ready to get off the deck.

Annesley showed an angle of this that looks more like a double movement and shows the ball reaching the line. But I suspect you are right in that he was getting ready to play the ball by the way he blew up when the penalty was given.