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Round 9 v Bulldogs

Spazer

Juniors
Messages
398
Ordinary performance again. Hurts to lose 4 straight games by 6 or less margin. We see it every week, the potential is there but we just lack the execution/finesse and do dumb things. Combinations aren't forming in the halves so something has to change there.
 

Trifili13

Juniors
Messages
723
I think we overhype how good our players are and simply blame the coach and say"if we had so and so as coach we would be in the 8". While Hook I think has to go because he will have had 3 years, he us not totally to blame as the players are simply not good enough on a consistent basis.

I know it's easy to pick 1 player to justify an argument, but I can recall several formites bagging the coach why Lachlan Timm wasn't being selected as he was supposedly going gangbusters in the seconds and would thrive under a decent coach, well where is he now? He was released by his QLD Cup team.

Other teams seem to find these rawboned 20 year olds ready to play. Ours guys all seem to need to bulk up, require 2 years of first grade experience and to get rid of their deficiencies before they even look anywhere near being first grade ready. The place is a shambles.
 

TheRev

First Grade
Messages
7,123
I think we overhype how good our players are and simply blame the coach and say"if we had so and so as coach we would be in the 8". While Hook I think has to go because he will have had 3 years, he us not totally to blame as the players are simply not good enough on a consistent basis.

I know it's easy to pick 1 player to justify an argument, but I can recall several formites bagging the coach why Lachlan Timm wasn't being selected as he was supposedly going gangbusters in the seconds and would thrive under a decent coach, well where is he now? He was released by his QLD Cup team.

Other teams seem to find these rawboned 20 year olds ready to play. Ours guys all seem to need to bulk up, require 2 years of first grade experience and to get rid of their deficiencies before they even look anywhere near being first grade ready. The place is a shambles.
I think its a little from column A & B, but agree 100% that we arent ruthless or active enough in the player market (especially juniors) in terms of of who we recruit, retain, drop to reserves or move on.. lets look at shit teams like the dogs and tigers.. dogs have run through quite a few fullbacks and halves combos trying to find the right fit.. the tigers have guys like Stains and Laurie.. also not deemed good enough for fullback.. also gone through numerous halves combinations trying to find the right talent set and combination... there are some very talented players in there that are not keeping their spots.. like they dont just 'pick and stick' as if thats gonna work if you just keep the faith.. only a fraction of juniors can survive at the top level.. and if you are losing numerous games in order to 'blood' them, ur doing it wrong.. I still give the example of Dufty, 2 years we spent on that kid.. the same issues he had from say 1 were there on his farewell game.. thats stupidity from us.. so many games he lost us.. but it takes courage to move players on, because fans and media lose their marbles.. the same way they would if this week Hunt was moved on.. or even moved position.. but we need to do it anyway.. thats why the right coach is key, someone who can take the barbs and arrows because he knows the shape the team needs to be.

All this becomes 1000x easier when you are winning of course.. then the players come.. then the players want to stay.. and then the coach is suddenly a master tactician (rather than a bumbling idiot).. in the eyes of the media.. we need to slowly work our way back there, but its a long long road.
 
Messages
1,352
I follow dragons because my father follows St George and I have many great memories of being on the hill watching fantastic footy - Nathan blacklock, Jamie ainscough, Amos roberts - these sort of blokes. We didn’t win every week but it was exciting football and we had a lot of supporters.

I try to watch the games with my 3 year old boy but there’s seriously nothing exciting there. We are such a boring team to watch.

i was at a bbq at a mates place out in glenmore park the other week and a 4 year old told me he went for the panthers. Wouldn’t shut up about how much he loved luai and Dylan Edwards. I wonder if any kids in our area would even know our players names let alone get that excited about our team.
I've been following Saints since birth and before we moved to the sticks was at the SCG or Kogarah for every game.
The difference between now and then is that quality players wanted to come here in the late 60s/70s because the board and players had built a club with an extraordinary reputation in football and management. Plus we looked after our juniors and obviously had a great scouting network.
IMO, the rot started with John Fleming and has grown progressively worse over the years.
Complacency, no forward planning, recruitment and retention is UTS. I love this team so much but it's such a frikking mess now that it's hard to care anymore. Too many years of unprofessional, unproductive and uninspired self-interested bozos with their snouts in the trough, thinking only of number 1. And you can include Bennett in that group. He took everything except the silverware when he left and installed a guy who was out of his depth carrying a water bottle in charge of the shop.
It's fkn sad.
 

Trifili13

Juniors
Messages
723
Agree
I think its a little from column A & B, but agree 100% that we arent ruthless or active enough in the player market (especially juniors) in terms of of who we recruit, retain, drop to reserves or move on.. lets look at shit teams like the dogs and tigers.. dogs have run through quite a few fullbacks and halves combos trying to find the right fit.. the tigers have guys like Stains and Laurie.. also not deemed good enough for fullback.. also gone through numerous halves combinations trying to find the right talent set and combination... there are some very talented players in there that are not keeping their spots.. like they dont just 'pick and stick' as if thats gonna work if you just keep the faith.. only a fraction of juniors can survive at the top level.. and if you are losing numerous games in order to 'blood' them, ur doing it wrong.. I still give the example of Dufty, 2 years we spent on that kid.. the same issues he had from say 1 were there on his farewell game.. thats stupidity from us.. so many games he lost us.. but it takes courage to move players on, because fans and media lose their marbles.. the same way they would if this week Hunt was moved on.. or even moved position.. but we need to do it anyway.. thats why the right coach is key, someone who can take the barbs and arrows because he knows the shape the team needs to be.

All this becomes 1000x easier when you are winning of course.. then the players come.. then the players want to stay.. and then the coach is suddenly a master tactician (rather than a bumbling idiot).. in the eyes of the media.. we need to slowly work our way back there, but its a long long road.
Agree. Look at the Chooks, Walker not playing well or not doing what the coach needs, and sends him to reserves. Now you can argue that they can afford to given the players they have in their squad but it does show that the coach is doing what he thinks will make the team better rather than cutting and pasting the matchday squad. Hunt hasn't taken us to even being a top 8 team yet we renew his contract and probably our most highest paid player. Can you imagine another serious top 8 team doing the same.
 

rasaint

Juniors
Messages
1,008
Hi All, I understand the despair but we are down on troops ourselves. No Sua, Molo, Ramsey and up and coming Coric( both gone before a ball kicked), Ravalawa. I stated early that Tau Tau Moga is a quality player. Scored 5 trys last 2 games and now gone his shoulder busted scoring in big traffic last week.

Unforfunately, we are carrying some players that are ineffective. Lomax, Lauwrie and Amone. Granted all are trying. Yesterday,, Zac hit a dropped ball intercept at full tilt but run down in 60 metres, courageous Blake faces forward and rumbles up, where he is stopped. Amone threw a good pass but rest of game just pedestrian.

Our depleted team is trying and we are competing. It’s a bad patch, and this year we won’t make 8 unless we get some injury luck.

We need to recruit quality players and stop carrying ordinary ones. I note Zac signed to a big 6 year deal at top $$$. No way out. Recruitment has been poor IMO for years.

Hoping something on recruitment front happens In 2024.
 

Lethal25

Juniors
Messages
1,485
It feels to me that most of our hardest working players are slow. Lawrie, De Belin, Lomax all high in hit ups but at a speed below what's needed to make an impact which gets the side on the front foot.

Certainly not a slight on their effort because it's definitely there. Look at what a player like Cameron Murray does for Souths, not the biggest guy but goes at the line and has an extremely quick play the ball. Cody Walker can then ball play with time

The other thing that stood out for me yesterday was our lack of kick pressure on Burton, he had so much time.

But the thing that hurt the most, we made Josh Reynolds look half decent
 

jeffdragon

Bench
Messages
3,324
Hi All, I understand the despair but we are down on troops ourselves. No Sua, Molo, Ramsey and up and coming Coric( both gone before a ball kicked), Ravalawa. I stated early that Tau Tau Moga is a quality player. Scored 5 trys last 2 games and now gone his shoulder busted scoring in big traffic last week.

Unforfunately, we are carrying some players that are ineffective. Lomax, Lauwrie and Amone. Granted all are trying. Yesterday,, Zac hit a dropped ball intercept at full tilt but run down in 60 metres, courageous Blake faces forward and rumbles up, where he is stopped. Amone threw a good pass but rest of game just pedestrian.

Our depleted team is trying and we are competing. It’s a bad patch, and this year we won’t make 8 unless we get some injury luck.

We need to recruit quality players and stop carrying ordinary ones. I note Zac signed to a big 6 year deal at top $$$. No way out. Recruitment has been poor IMO for years.

Hoping something on recruitment front happens In 2024.
We aren't depleted.
Missing a few but who were our opponents missing.
We had Sua and Molo v v Titans we lost .
Coric was never going to play fg
The team doesn't know how to win plays rubbish football.
Season is gone and we just started May.
Bottom in two weeks as I predicted.
 

possm

Coach
Messages
15,401
The lack of enthusiasm, poor direction, inability to close out a game, says to me that Hunt is no longer first the be a halfback or captain.

Sloan's defensive skills and inability to take the high ball under pressure also tell me that he is a good attacking player with good ball skills but not a good fullback. In my opinion, Sloan should play in the five-eighth position. Having said this, Sloan needs intensive coaching in defense to be a successful NRL five-eighth.

Sullivan is still raw but will benefit greatly from being selected at halfback for the remainder of 2023, no matter the result of each game.

I have to say, Lomax does not have the speed to play in the centers these days. That is why I have come up with the idea of Amone to center and Lomax to fullback. Lomax can take the high ball and is safe in defense. I'm confident his passing game and management of the Dragon's backline in defense would assist us greatly. His positional game at fullback may be a work in progress but an impossible task for him to take on board.
 

TheRev

First Grade
Messages
7,123
I see the same Amone in 2023 as I did in 2022, I didn't understand then why were persisting with him, but everyone seemed to love him and telling me how much better he was getting.. I thought I must be missing something.. all it takes with these young guys is 1 flashy run and fans are in love again.. all is forgiven.

I watched some of Amone in lower grades and was super excited for him... and I still think he absolutely has a role in a football side somewhere.. he rarely gets injured, he has footwork, he is getting size about him... it depends how big he gets.. but I dont think its a 5/8 (I dont think..).. but even if it is.. he can develop that in reserve grade, there is no reason to be continually blooding guys who aren't ready in 1st grade.. its put so much pressure on Ben Hunt these past few seasons, who granted seems to love it.. and probably even requests it.. but thats not the point :p

All that said.. a new coach, a new structure.. maybe Amone's ineffectiveness is caused by the lack of decoys and other options that the defence has to contend with.. hence he cant make a break.. but something doesn't seem quite right.. his step doesnt seem to get him into a genuine hole.. i.e. fool the tackler... .. but anyway again.. trying not to write anybody off until the new coach has had time with them.. but there is no reason Amone cant do his thing in reserve grade.
 

justadragon

Juniors
Messages
2,143
The lack of enthusiasm, poor direction, inability to close out a game, says to me that Hunt is no longer first the be a halfback or captain.

Sloan's defensive skills and inability to take the high ball under pressure also tell me that he is a good attacking player with good ball skills but not a good fullback. In my opinion, Sloan should play in the five-eighth position. Having said this, Sloan needs intensive coaching in defense to be a successful NRL five-eighth.

Sullivan is still raw but will benefit greatly from being selected at halfback for the remainder of 2023, no matter the result of each game.

I have to say, Lomax does not have the speed to play in the centers these days. That is why I have come up with the idea of Amone to center and Lomax to fullback. Lomax can take the high ball and is safe in defense. I'm confident his passing game and management of the Dragon's backline in defense would assist us greatly. His positional game at fullback may be a work in progress but an impossible task for him to take on board.
You cant keep shafting Sloan Possm, he needs time at FB, if by the end of the season nothing has improved, I'm sure the team will be shifted around by a new coach, but for now you cant keep sapping his confidence.
 

Old Timer

Coach
Messages
16,760
You cant keep shafting Sloan Possm, he needs time at FB, if by the end of the season nothing has improved, I'm sure the team will be shifted around by a new coach, but for now you cant keep sapping his confidence.
Sloan just doesn't have what it takes to be a FB and no amount of time is going to get him there.

Sloan on the attack is a great thing to watch as was Nathan Blacklock and as is JAC so get Sloan into his correct position and let him then concentrate on that which he is very good at "attacking and support play" and stop lumping with the things he is very poor at "defence, positioning, catching bombs" which are prerequisites for even the most basic of FB's.

In fact yesterday Max Feagai showed more of the elementary skills needed to be a FB than Sloan ever has and Max hasn't played a game of 1st grade in well over a year maybe even 2.
 

Victoire

Juniors
Messages
559
Hi All, I understand the despair but we are down on troops ourselves. No Sua, Molo, Ramsey and up and coming Coric( both gone before a ball kicked), Ravalawa. I stated early that Tau Tau Moga is a quality player. Scored 5 trys last 2 games and now gone his shoulder busted scoring in big traffic last week.


Our depleted team is trying and we are competing. It’s a bad patch, and this year we won’t make 8 unless we get some injury luck.
The Dogs were missing Josh Addo-Carr, Viliame Kikau, Jacob Kiraz, Max King, Ryan Sutton...

We were playing at home, and had something like 28 tackles in the opposition 20 compared to the Dogs 8 and still got beaten. Dreadful
 

Old Timer

Coach
Messages
16,760
I see the same Amone in 2023 as I did in 2022, I didn't understand then why were persisting with him, but everyone seemed to love him and telling me how much better he was getting.. I thought I must be missing something.. all it takes with these young guys is 1 flashy run and fans are in love again.. all is forgiven.

I watched some of Amone in lower grades and was super excited for him... and I still think he absolutely has a role in a football side somewhere.. he rarely gets injured, he has footwork, he is getting size about him... it depends how big he gets.. but I dont think its a 5/8 (I dont think..).. but even if it is.. he can develop that in reserve grade, there is no reason to be continually blooding guys who aren't ready in 1st grade.. its put so much pressure on Ben Hunt these past few seasons, who granted seems to love it.. and probably even requests it.. but thats not the point :p

All that said.. a new coach, a new structure.. maybe Amone's ineffectiveness is caused by the lack of decoys and other options that the defence has to contend with.. hence he cant make a break.. but something doesn't seem quite right.. his step doesnt seem to get him into a genuine hole.. i.e. fool the tackler... .. but anyway again.. trying not to write anybody off until the new coach has had time with them.. but there is no reason Amone cant do his thing in reserve grade.
Amone no doubt has lots of things going on in his head which are no doubt affecting his performances and for sure last year he was playing much better but the jury is well and truly out on to where he might best fit in.

For sure playing outside Hunt is a poison chalice and also adversely affects his chances of succeeding.

All the above aside for a relatively big body as a back he is awful gun shy when it comes to tackling and that is a major concern moving forward.
 

justadragon

Juniors
Messages
2,143
Sloan just doesn't have what it takes to be a FB and no amount of time is going to get him there.

Sloan on the attack is a great thing to watch as was Nathan Blacklock and as is JAC so get Sloan into his correct position and let him then concentrate on that which he is very good at "attacking and support play" and stop lumping with the things he is very poor at "defence, positioning, catching bombs" which are prerequisites for even the most basic of FB's.

In fact yesterday Max Feagai showed more of the elementary skills needed to be a FB than Sloan ever has and Max hasn't played a game of 1st grade in well over a year maybe even 2.
Can see your point OT but if you are planning at putting Sloan on the wing, he will still need to catch bombs, he will still need to defend etc. IMO we dont have the attacking plays that allow our outside backs or the FB to showcase their attack, its all done ad lib and individual brilliance. If we get a new coach and he decides to put Sloan somewhere else and there is a better option at FB then I'll be happy with that to, I'd also be happy to see Max Feagai and Sloan interchange during a game.
 

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