Round 9 v Tigers

[franklin2323]

Just watched a youtube video on a young st marys winger/fullback called allan fitzgibbon he played wing for penrith in canterbury cup very impressive 8min highlights reel has great speed is exactly what we need in 1st grade.

Lower grades have some real speed. For some reason under Gus these players didn't see the top grade. Hopefully that chances with the retention group

 

[mxlegend99]

Our Origin halves. We played Munster the rest we should have covered.

Sharks had a rookie fullback. Rookie centre v Whare and DWZ (who was test FB last year)

GC had a backline consisting of Copley, Brian Kelly. Ash Taylor went off and Peats didn't play.

Last week Oldfield and Simsonssen are worse then we had. Our halves are better than Wighton and Williams

What bullshit.

Oldfield is worse for sure. But Simonsson is better than Mansour. As is Copley. And Kelly would walk into our centres too.

In the past 12 months Mansour at his absolute best has been average. But mostly he has been poor.

Whare again solid at best. He's not terrible but he's not above average either.

We had a rookie fullback the past 2 weeks also. Everyone seemed to think a rookie fullback was an upgrade on an international one when we did it.

You're focused on who is missing and not what is out there. Even a Raiders side missing a few guys had a shitload better side than us.

CNK > Aekins
Cotric > MWZ
Simonsson > Mansour
Croker > DWZ

Blake over oldfield was our only position in the backline we won head to head. If BJ and Rapana played it's just a much bigger gap they shit on our guys by.

Honestly compare every lineup we have used against opposition and use the past 12 months form to rate them. If you ignore what the likes of Edwards, Whare, Mansour, RCG etc. Used to be and focus solely on the past 12 months... there's not many games this year where we would get even 50% of the players in a best of team.

But worst of all is even average losses like Crochton and CHN would be better than many of the guys we have now. Crichton was average last year... yet he's better than Mansour and MWZ.

Not many of our players are close to peak form and havent been since long before Ivan arrived.

 

[mxlegend99]

Who are the 40% that are good? Blake, Maloney and DWZ?

Blake and DWZ. Not throwing the halves into our backline.

1. Edwards - shit... but can improve
2. Mansour - shit... injuries have reduced what madr him good and he has slways had flaws that now standout more
3. Whare - average ever since injuries and doesnt seem capable of ever reaching his peak again

Blake and DWZ are good..although Blake has been struggling swapping sides of field and DWZ hasnt been able to settle into a position

3 of our best back 5 are not close to what we needed them to be and a long way from being able to get there. The other 2 are closer but still not there.

I blindly expected we could get career best form out of all our top 13 guys. But realise now that it's nothing more than a fantasy.

Edwards is the most likely to redeem himself due to age and the effort he puts in.but he is still a long way from where he needs to be or where we expected him to be

 

[franklin2323]

What bullshit.

Oldfield is worse for sure. But Simonsson is better than Mansour. As is Copley. And Kelly would walk into our centres too.

In the past 12 months Mansour at his absolute best has been average. But mostly he has been poor.

Whare again solid at best. He's not terrible but he's not above average either.

We had a rookie fullback the past 2 weeks also. Everyone seemed to think a rookie fullback was an upgrade on an international one when we did it.

You're focused on who is missing and not what is out there. Even a Raiders side missing a few guys had a shitload better side than us.

CNK > Aekins
Cotric > MWZ
Simonsson > Mansour
Croker > DWZ

Blake over oldfield was our only position in the backline we won head to head. If BJ and Rapana played it's just a much bigger gap they shit on our guys by.

Honestly compare every lineup we have used against opposition and use the past 12 months form to rate them. If you ignore what the likes of Edwards, Whare, Mansour, RCG etc. Used to be and focus solely on the past 12 months... there's not many games this year where we would get even 50% of the players in a best of team.

But worst of all is even average losses like Crochton and CHN would be better than many of the guys we have now. Crichton was average last year... yet he's better than Mansour and MWZ.

Not many of our players are close to peak form and havent been since long before Ivan arrived.

A rookie winger is not better than Mansour. you are reaching to defend Ivan. If we dished out this garbage when Hook was coach you'd rightfullly be calling him out

MWZ is a reserve grader and I will give you age catching up with Whare and Mansour but DWZ is 23. Blake is 24. Cleary 22. Edwards 22. Aekins 22 these are guys who should be peaking yet are going backwards. Even guys like Leota have stalled or gone backwards. So if not coaching then what?

Teams with Salary Cap penalties and worse injuries than us are doing the job. Comes down to poor preparation

 

[Flashstep]

A rookie winger is not better than Mansour. you are reaching to defend Ivan. If we dished out this garbage when Hook was coach you'd rightfullly be calling him out

MWZ is a reserve grader and I will give you age catching up with Whare and Mansour but DWZ is 23. Blake is 24. Cleary 22. Edwards 22. Aekins 22 these are guys who should be peaking yet are going backwards. Even guys like Leota have stalled or gone backwards. So if not coaching then what?

Teams with Salary Cap penalties and worse injuries than us are doing the job. Comes down to poor preparation

DWZ has already played 3 positions this year so you can’t really expect him to develop any consistency, this is a coaching move but I don’t blame Cleary for moving him around our backline to try and improve it overall to fit other players in, I don’t think he ever will be a centre though.

Blake is just getting no early ball or any space to run into, this is on the Coach’s attacking game plan for sure but really our halves should take the blame also.

Nathan is still only 21 really he turns 22 into Nov and I wouldn’t say he’s at the peak age of a half, halves usually peak in their mid or late 20s imo, plus I think he’s been decent this season even if our attack remains woeful overall which he deserves criticism for, he’s a long way away from being a 900k+ player that’s for sure, hopefully he reaches that kind of level.

Aekins has only played 3 first grade games in his career so it’s far to early to judge, carving it up in NSW Cup is a lot easier than playing the best of the best every week, I still don’t know if he’s our best fullback going forward.

Edwards I think just comes down to injury mostly, I always thought he was overrated anyway but he was definitely a lot better than what he’s shown this season I just think his weaknesses are exploited more when he’s down on confidence due to the injury and he loses his best asset which was his running game, injuries have taken their toll mentally as well as physically which have hurt our players even more just look at Mansour

 

[mxlegend99]

Cleary hahahahahahahaha

I know you hate him but his form has been fine and in most games this year you would pair him with one of the opposition halves in a best of.

Its not his fault he sets up tries and other players bomb them.

He has easily lost 3 try assists due to others dropping it over the line. Blake twice. Martin once. Ise tge past 12 months form in our head to head matchrs:

Vs Eels - Moses and Cleary would be the halves
Vs Knights - Pearce and Cleary would be the halves
Vs Tigers - probably both ours...
Vs storm - neither of ours
Vs Raiders - Wighton and Cleary
Vs Souths - neither of ours
Vs Sharks - neither of ours
Vs Titans - Roberts and Cleary

Thats giving the tie breaker to the better team. Our hooker would never be in a best of and very few other players would appear.

 

[Panther_Daz]

I know you hate him but his form has been fine and in most games this year you would pair him with one of the opposition halves in a best of.

Its not his fault he sets up tries and other players bomb them.

He has easily lost 3 try assists due to others dropping it over the line. Blake twice. Martin once. Ise tge past 12 months form in our head to head matchrs:

Vs Eels - Moses and Cleary would be the halves
Vs Knights - Pearce and Cleary would be the halves
Vs Tigers - probably both ours...
Vs storm - neither of ours
Vs Raiders - Wighton and Cleary
Vs Souths - neither of ours
Vs Sharks - neither of ours
Vs Titans - Roberts and Cleary

Thats giving the tie breaker to the better team. Our hooker would never be in a best of and very few other players would appear.

That is one of the worst posts I have ever seen on here.


The way the Eels play, Cleary will be a handbrake to their style

There is no way he will fit in.

 

[mxlegend99]

A rookie winger is not better than Mansour. you are reaching to defend Ivan. If we dished out this garbage when Hook was coach you'd rightfullly be calling him out

Yeah and according to you Eels are the wooden spooners and Bulldogs wont win it because of depth.

You're the one who wantrd a rookie winger in Too promoted ahead of Mansour... and a rookie Aekins promoted ahead of DWZ to fullback.

Why would you want rookies if they can't be better? Thats f**king absurd. Mansour is the worst winger running around in the NRL. A rookie can be better than him and has been better than him.

 

[mxlegend99]

That is one of the worst posts I have ever seen on here.


The way the Eels play, Cleary will be a handbrake to their style

There is no way he will fit in.

Get your hand off it. Tell me which halves i left out would get picked ahead of him in a combined 17 on the past 12 months form.

Brown? Ponga? Williams? Benji / Brooks? Taylor?

Brooks is the only one you could argue based on his 2018 form and his 2019 form has been nowhere near that.

I didnt put him ahead of Renolds/Walker, Munster/Croft, Johnson/Townsend even though you could make a case he would be better than Croft and Townsend in the same team.

 

[Black Magik]

That is one of the worst posts I have ever seen on here.


The way the Eels play, Cleary will be a handbrake to their style

There is no way he will fit in.

Did you hear Gus yesterday when the Dragons scored their second try?

He was saying, as a coach, he would be shouting “don’t pass the ball”, “take the tackle”, “don’t look for support”! Explains where our attack went!! The adlib has been coached out of them

 

[franklin2323]

DWZ has already played 3 positions this year so you can’t really expect him to develop any consistency, this is a coaching move but I don’t blame Cleary for moving him around our backline to try and improve it overall to fit other players in, I don’t think he ever will be a centre though.

Blake is just getting no early ball or any space to run into, this is on the Coach’s attacking game plan for sure but really our halves should take the blame also.

Nathan is still only 21 really he turns 22 into Nov and I wouldn’t say he’s at the peak age of a half, halves usually peak in their mid or late 20s imo, plus I think he’s been decent this season even if our attack remains woeful overall which he deserves criticism for, he’s a long way away from being a 900k+ player that’s for sure, hopefully he reaches that kind of level.

Aekins has only played 3 first grade games in his career so it’s far to early to judge, carving it up in NSW Cup is a lot easier than playing the best of the best every week, I still don’t know if he’s our best fullback going forward.

Edwards I think just comes down to injury mostly, I always thought he was overrated anyway but he was definitely a lot better than what he’s shown this season I just think his weaknesses are exploited more when he’s down on confidence due to the injury and he loses his best asset which was his running game, injuries have taken their toll mentally as well as physically which have hurt our players even more just look at Mansour

A few times Blake has made a half break he has looked to pass or has passed. On the weekend he made a break and was mowed down so easily. A lot of it is general fitness. We make linebreaks but one out stuff.

Look back to that Manly comeback game or the game we beat Canberra 40-31 and it is several guys in support and we scored some great tries as a result. So alot of it I put down to general poor fitness but no attack structure too is on the coaching staff.

Penalties and missed tackles have been an issue for a while .So can't blame the coach. Mansour injured can't either BUT playing him can be

 

[franklin2323]

Did you hear Gus yesterday when the Dragons scored their second try?

He was saying, as a coach, he would be shouting “don’t pass the ball”, “take the tackle”, “don’t look for support”! Explains where our attack went!! The adlib has been coached out of them

yep and why the x factor guys are playing elsewhere

 

[franklin2323]

Yeah and according to you Eels are the wooden spooners and Bulldogs wont win it because of depth.

You're the one who wantrd a rookie winger in Too promoted ahead of Mansour... and a rookie Aekins promoted ahead of DWZ to fullback.

Why would you want rookies if they can't be better? Thats f**king absurd. Mansour is the worst winger running around in the NRL. A rookie can be better than him and has been better than him.

Mansour isn't fit. He has a stuffed shoulder he shouldn't be playing is why I'd play Too. look at our top squad and development squad even. Too is the only one there so in that case has to be him if an injured Mansour misses out

I like a ball playing fullback which DWZ isn't. I noticed Edwards had a couple of try assists yesterday more of that and he'd be my pick over Aekins. I like DWZ as a centre. Tall, Decent enough speed give him early ball with a fast winger outside him could be much better.

 

[Panther_Daz]

Get your hand off it. Tell me which halves i left out would get picked ahead of him in a combined 17 on the past 12 months form.

Brown? Ponga? Williams? Benji / Brooks? Taylor?

Brooks is the only one you could argue based on his 2018 form and his 2019 form has been nowhere near that.

I didnt put him ahead of Renolds/Walker, Munster/Croft, Johnson/Townsend even though you could make a case he would be better than Croft and Townsend in the same team.

Combined 17's is a ridiculous concept that I am not going to enter into a debate about.

I judge players based on what I see on the field and what they do for the players around them.

 

[mxlegend99]

Combined 17's is a ridiculous concept that I am not going to enter into a debate about.

I judge players based on what I see on the field and what they do for the players around them.

What's ridiculous is suggesting we should beat a team because x player(s) are out when the remaining players and those replacements still have a far stronger 17 then us.

The combined 17 concept is to show that. Raiders without 3 players still shit on our roster from a great height.

If we had Mansour out along with Whare. It wouldn't exactly be a loss to us as both are average at best. Raiders backup is better than our first choice. Hell our backup in MWZ is better too.

 

[Flashstep]

A few times Blake has made a half break he has looked to pass or has passed. On the weekend he made a break and was mowed down so easily. A lot of it is general fitness. We make linebreaks but one out stuff.

Look back to that Manly comeback game or the game we beat Canberra 40-31 and it is several guys in support and we scored some great tries as a result. So alot of it I put down to general poor fitness but no attack structure too is on the coaching staff.

Penalties and missed tackles have been an issue for a while .So can't blame the coach. Mansour injured can't either BUT playing him can be

Yea you’re right, I was never a big fan of Griffin but you have to give him big credit for one thing, he made us a really really fit football team which was why we were able to make a lot of late surges to steal games last year, this year though we seem to be way more unfit, Cleary better start running them into the ground sooner rather than later.

 

[Panther_Daz]

What's ridiculous is suggesting we should beat a team because x player(s) are out when the remaining players and those replacements still have a far stronger 17 then us.

The combined 17 concept is to show that. Raiders without 3 players still shit on our roster from a great height.

If we had Mansour out along with Whare. It wouldn't exactly be a loss to us as both are average at best. Raiders backup is better than our first choice. Hell our backup in MWZ is better too.

Our players are really struggling and we are poorly coached. I am not disputing that.

However we had 61% of the ball against 12 men at one stage on Saturday and still couldn't score.

 

[Black Magik]

What's ridiculous is suggesting we should beat a team because x player(s) are out when the remaining players and those replacements still have a far stronger 17 then us.

The combined 17 concept is to show that. Raiders without 3 players still shit on our roster from a great height.

If we had Mansour out along with Whare. It wouldn't exactly be a loss to us as both are average at best. Raiders backup is better than our first choice. Hell our backup in MWZ is better too.

Losing players during a game is tougher than losing them a week or so before the game imo.

Especially 3 players. It is natural for all the others to not go as hard for fear of also getting injured and quickly reducing the team to 13 or less.

 

[franklin2323]

Yea you’re right, I was never a big fan of Griffin but you have to give him big credit for one thing, he made us a really really fit football team which was why we were able to make a lot of late surges to steal games last year, this year though we seem to be way more unfit, Cleary better start running them into the ground sooner rather than later.

to me we always looked a settled spine away from being a top side with hook we competed well just lacked the finish at times. The same can't be said for Ivan's team yet anyway. A few weeks put together may change that

 

[franklin2323]

Our players are really struggling and we are poorly coached. I am not disputing that.

However we had 61% of the ball against 12 men at one stage on Saturday and still couldn't score.

Even outside of that. 52 tackles in their half compared to 26. Made more run metres. More offloads, More linebreaks

Wasted opportunity