Rumoured and Confirmed signings - Part 4

[franklin2323]

People here said Tamou was worth it because the cap went up while he's been here so I don't see why the same can't apply to Cleary.



Market value is whatever clubs are offering to pay him.

How much would a top team pay for him? How many players over a $1m does Roosters have for example

 

[franklin2323]

Wade Graham also does a fair bit of playmaking and kicking

Both Egan and Katoa can play make. Same with Edwards who knows who else in 18 months will show skills

 

[tripster]

Another thing to consider in this debate is the importance of a good hooker. In the modern game, having an excellent hooker can compensate to a degree for having an average half. Having an excellent hooker and an excellent half is even better.

If we lose Cleary for 2020, a huge amount of responsibility will fall onto Maloney that season. We will have a relatively inexperienced hooker, and relatively inexperienced 5/8 (whomever it ends up being) and fullback.

I don't think anyone is suggesting in this thread that we should pay more than market value for Cleary to keep him. However, we need to be prepared for the fact that market value might be a high number.

 

[mxlegend99]

Oh come on. Which of the dogs halves from des time are even starting NRL halves right now??? DONUT LOL. Moylan(orgin half that we produced) has them all covered easily, god you can be ridiculous.

We currently have the best half in the game, I don't know where this talk of us having shit halves comes from and I never said we can win with shit halves, you are just making shit up now. Its getting silly. My whole argument is don't pay more than we(Gus and the club) think he is worth. I have then proven your opinion that average halves cant make the finals consistently completely wrong so you've moved the goalposts and are now talking about winning premiership with shit halves and again for the record I never said we can win a premiership with shit halves, you made that up.

Halves picked in Origin are above average ffs. 32 first choice halves in the NRL. Being the 2 picked for your state makes you above average. Even if the opposition are better. You beat out alot of halves to be picked.

Being shit several years later doesn't change that. The Bulldogs halves might not stack up as elite halves. But they certainly weren't average at the time either.

Well Kris Keating was. But Josh Reynolds and Trent Hodkinson weren't. They were the halves who won our only Origin series in 12 years.

Elite? No. Average? Not back then. Shit? Hodkinson is today. But he certainly wasn't back then.

Calling them average at their peak is ridiculous. Before Hodkinson signed with Knights he wzs considered a good half. That desl obviously failed massively and he's shit today. But he sure as hell wasn't back then.

The only rep jerseys sverage players can get their hands on are for the minnow nations and City or Country gigs. Origins znd International jerseys might go yo players eho are average at that level, but all of them were sbove average NRL players.

 

[mxlegend99]

How much would a top team pay for him? How many players over a $1m does Roosters have for example

Are you counting brown paper bags?

If not then zero.

 

[betcats]

Halves picked in Origin are above average ffs. 32 first choice halves in the NRL. Being the 2 picked for your state makes you above average. Even if the opposition are better. You beat out alot of halves to be picked.

Being shit several years later doesn't change that. The Bulldogs halves might not stack up as elite halves. But they certainly weren't average at the time either.

Well Kris Keating was. But Josh Reynolds and Trent Hodkinson weren't. They were the halves who won our only Origin series in 12 years.

Elite? No. Average? Not back then. Shit? Hodkinson is today. But he certainly wasn't back then.

Calling them average at their peak is ridiculous. Before Hodkinson signed with Knights he wzs considered a good half. That desl obviously failed massively and he's shit today. But he sure as hell wasn't back then.

The only rep jerseys sverage players can get their hands on are for the minnow nations and City or Country gigs. Origins znd International jerseys might go yo players eho are average at that level, but all of them were sbove average NRL players.

Hodkinson and Reynolds were the best available at the time, that doesn't make them good. Both are in their primes right now and neither is a starting half.

All i'm saying is we have to be prepared for the possibility that a club like the roosters or broncos will offer a shitload more then we want to offer.

 

[mxlegend99]

Hodkinson and Reynolds were the best available at the time, that doesn't make them good. Both are in their primes right now and neither is a starting half.

All i'm saying is we have to be prepared for the possibility that a club like the roosters or broncos will offer a shitload more then we want to offer.

Neither are in their primes.

2013 to 2015 was their prime. And they were better than the other options at the time... which made them above average.

They never have been elite halves. But they were pretty decent at one point. Hodkinson was actually quiet clutch in close games. Good goalkicker. Good fieldgoal kicker. Happy to take the line on. Decent defender.

Reynolds was a good fit for him too. High energy 1% plays. Fired his team up. Bit of a lunatic like Hetherington on many occasions. But he was not average.

Hodkinson today is pure shit. Threw his career away taking a payday at Knights.
Reynolds has been injured though and Cleary is easing him back in through the bench.

I wouldn't want either here today. But back in our Burns and Walsh days those guys would have been a huge upgrade.

And I agree we need to accept we might lose him. But not by being outbid. Im saying he is worth whatever he gets. Whether its from us or another club.

We should have every advsntage to keep him aside from one... we dont have his dad. That's the most likely reason we should lose him. We can mstch any offer and I think Gus would match any offer for him. When asked who he would build a team around Cleary was his answer.

Broncos or Roosters can't offer more money or even more chance at success. He's now an Origin player already so that doesnt change either. Unless he wants to develop under Bellamy... but choosing him over his dad seems unlikely.

I think its us or his dad. Maybe Roosters will go for both as rumored.

 

[betcats]

How do know what the Broncos or roosters are prepared to offer? Or even Penrith for that matter? You guys throw figures around like you are insiders.

Talk him up all you want but Hodkinson has never been considered as anything other than bog f**king average.

 

[OldPanther]

How much would a top team pay for him? How many players over a $1m does Roosters have for example

Wish I could answer that but I don't pay attention to their cap management.

 

[mxlegend99]

How do know what the Broncos or roosters are prepared to offer? Or even Penrith for that matter? You guys throw figures around like you are insiders.

Talk him up all you want but Hodkinson has never been considered as anything other than bog f**king average.

Reynolds and Hodkinson were above average simply by being the only halves pairing in 13 years to win an Origin series for NSW.

Today they suck. Hell even compared to the elite halves back then they werent that good. But they were able to do something no half since Joey has done. That's no small achievement.

Not good enough for a premiership obviously. But they were easily above average at the time. You cant fluke an Origin series win against these QLDers. Just ask Mitchell Pearce. Odds say he should have won a series. Yet he couldn't win shit in any circumstances.

 

[mxlegend99]

How do know what the Broncos or roosters are prepared to offer? Or even Penrith for that matter? You guys throw figures around like you are insiders.

Talk him up all you want but Hodkinson has never been considered as anything other than bog f**king average.

Im not thtowing around figures outside of the ones prople are inflating to say he's not worth.

Whether its $1m or $1.4m a season to keep him. The bigger mistake would be not paying it if he chose to stay. We average a halfback of his quality once every 20 years or dso.

No matter what amount or who he signs for. TPAs will be easily obtained to inflate his contract. We have the advantage of him having 4 years here already (in 2019) and being close to using the long serving player allowance in the back end of his deal also.

We have his friends here. He can set and break all sorts of records here. Outside of being coached by his father, no other club offers something we can't match.

Except maybe Broncos and Craig Bellamy. That would be hard to pass up.

 

[betcats]

Fair enough, I really hope we keep him and I even think it’s likely. But if we do end up in bidding war for him we have to back the club if they decide he’s to expensive. A great half still needs a great team to succeed. But you don’t necessarily need a great half to be a great team.

The only half I’ve ever seen who could turn a shit side into a contending side was Johns, not even Thurston was that good. Cleary ain’t Johns so we have to be able to put a great team around him.

 

[age.s]

It can't be an either or imo. Cleary behind a shit pack won't be good enough. A great pack with shit halves probably won't be good enough either. It'll come down to where our development strengths are. If we have the next Kikau and JFH coming down the pipeline then losing a few members of our pack isn't as big a deal, if we have a highly rated half then maybe we don't throw a quarter of our cap at Cleary. The club is best placed to make these decisions.

It's not a situation where you can have hard and fast rules. Our success will be on the back of value signings and using our strong player development to open windows where we're paying unders for a significant portion of our squad. Gus has been doing this well so far which is why we're in the position we're in now. I'm happy to back him to make the right call here.

 

[betcats]

It can't be an either or imo. Cleary behind a shit pack won't be good enough. A great pack with shit halves probably won't be good enough either. It'll come down to where our development strengths are. If we have the next Kikau and JFH coming down the pipeline then losing a few members of our pack isn't as big a deal, if we have a highly rated half then maybe we don't throw a quarter of our cap at Cleary. The club is best placed to make these decisions.

It's not a situation where you can have hard and fast rules. Our success will be on the back of value signings and using our strong player development to open windows where we're paying unders for a significant portion of our squad. Gus has been doing this well so far which is why we're in the position we're in now. I'm happy to back him to make the right call here.

Basically summed up my erratic thoughts right here. The club will decide how much he is worth to us based on what our needs are and what other options we have.

I just think we need to be realistic. We have Maloney on big money in the halves already, if a club offers huge money to nath the best thing for penrith might be to let him go, people need to accept that it’s a very real possibility.

 

[mxlegend99]

Fair enough, I really hope we keep him and I even think it’s likely. But if we do end up in bidding war for him we have to back the club if they decide he’s to expensive. A great half still needs a great team to succeed. But you don’t necessarily need a great half to be a great team.

The only half I’ve ever seen who could turn a shit side into a contending side was Johns, not even Thurston was that good. Cleary ain’t Johns so we have to be able to put a great team around him.

Cleary will be 10 times the player Joey was.

By being as good as him in an era where there are very few good halves. Back when Gower was running around even the average hslves were pretty good.

Thats why above average halves by todays standard are easy to call shit. 20 years ago they wouldn't have been first graders. Take a look around at what's available though and theyre sadly above average.

Cleary and Taylor will be the only 2 high quality 7s in the comp soon. Well Hunt, Pearce and DCE too. But they're a fair bit older snd similar in quality at their peaks. After them you have guys like Sezer, Moses, Frawley, Brooks etc.

Players who show glimpses of potential but largely suck. I just font like our chsnces of finding anyone better than that batch of players.

I think money will not be remotely an issue. We can easily find a way to get a lot of it off our cap... plus Cleary is not selfish and is clearly a smart player. He would know the more he earns capwise the less his club has to build a stronger side around him. He can kill it in TPAs anywherr he goes. So I brlieve our biggest issue is the coach.

Hook isn't a negative in keeping him. Nor a positive though.
Bellamy would be appealing to give himself the best chsnce at being a great
Ivan is purely a redult of wsnting yo play for his dad.

Otherwise I think we can match or beat any selling point. I think captaincy and recordz for our club should be selling points for him. 4 years herr is a huge headstart in being a Panthers all time great. Other clubs he sould be 4 years behind and have harder records to chase also. Surely he would hzve a few goals rrlating to that

 

[betcats]

Cleary is not half the natural talent that Johns was we need to chill. Johns vision and ball playing was so far ahead of Nathan’s it’s not funny, they are very different 7s.

 

[franklin2323]

Basically summed up my erratic thoughts right here. The club will decide how much he is worth to us based on what our needs are and what other options we have.

I just think we need to be realistic. We have Maloney on big money in the halves already, if a club offers huge money to nath the best thing for penrith might be to let him go, people need to accept that it’s a very real possibility.

Have both options internally. Externally Shaun Johnson and Luke Brooks for starters are off contract. Neither will cost a million to sign so we have plenty to fall back on

 

[luv my panfas]

Yes he is a great kid has all the ingredients to lead a panthers team around for years to come but he has sat out for seven weeks and witnessed an oarsome penrith pack keep us top 4 i think he will stay this time around on the back of that alone.

 

[Luke Bowden]

Cleary will be 10 times the player Joey was.

By being as good as him in an era where there are very few good halves. Back when Gower was running around even the average hslves were pretty good.

Thats why above average halves by todays standard are easy to call shit. 20 years ago they wouldn't have been first graders. Take a look around at what's available though and theyre sadly above average.

Cleary and Taylor will be the only 2 high quality 7s in the comp soon. Well Hunt, Pearce and DCE too. But they're a fair bit older snd similar in quality at their peaks. After them you have guys like Sezer, Moses, Frawley, Brooks etc.

Players who show glimpses of potential but largely suck. I just font like our chsnces of finding anyone better than that batch of players.

I think money will not be remotely an issue. We can easily find a way to get a lot of it off our cap... plus Cleary is not selfish and is clearly a smart player. He would know the more he earns capwise the less his club has to build a stronger side around him. He can kill it in TPAs anywherr he goes. So I brlieve our biggest issue is the coach.

Hook isn't a negative in keeping him. Nor a positive though.
Bellamy would be appealing to give himself the best chsnce at being a great
Ivan is purely a redult of wsnting yo play for his dad.

Otherwise I think we can match or beat any selling point. I think captaincy and recordz for our club should be selling points for him. 4 years herr is a huge headstart in being a Panthers all time great. Other clubs he sould be 4 years behind and have harder records to chase also. Surely he would hzve a few goals rrlating to that

10 times better than the 9th immortal? A player that changed the game for ever?

I can’t see Nathan changing the way rugby league is played.

He’s a very good player, maybe the best half back of his generation. Certainly not 10 times better.

 

[TheFrog]

Hes a better Cooper Cronk for mine.

He doesn't have the kicking game of Cronk, not even close, but is his equal otherwise.