Rumoured Targets 3

[Spot On]

I will say it now: there is ZERO chance that if we lose Gagai we will go out and offer even more to a lesser centre.

We will find someone who represents much better value and so we should.

Exactly. Michael Hagan is not writing the cheques anymore peoples. Amen.

 

[Johns Magic]

I just can't believe that some would squabble over $50k in our position.

JM, Spots, et al - where are we going to spend the money saved on Gagai in the next few years, when we can't spend the whopping mountain of cash that we've already saved? What is your timeline for fixing this mess now?

Without seeing Souths offer I can't really comment on it - but if it blows ours out of the water then I guess we're in the $800k+ range. That's hard to justify for sure, but what isn't hard to justify is increasing our offer another 50k or so in good faith to acknowledge his demand on the market. I just don't get how we can afford to pay him $600k for the past 3 years, but $700k or more would somehow destroy our salary cap when the cap is going up and we've already got millions to spend even if it doesn't.

650K for Gagai is already overs. I reckon he's worth about 450K. Gotta draw the line somewhere.

If I thought he was worth 650K then I'd agree what's another 50K. But I think there is a stage where you dodge a bullet.

I agree that it's frustrating we can't sign players at the moment but unlike you I'm not convinced that will be the case forever. I don't think the answer in the meantime is to throw excessive money at decent players.

 

[slotmachine]

I noticed no one has commented on my previous question - Has Nathan Ross played an worse than Dane Gagai the past 2 seasons???

2015 - Gagai better
2016 - Ross better
2017 - even

 

[Spot On]

We'll this is the source of our disagreement then. I'm not happy to do that, and think it's an idealistic philosophy that doesn't overly apply in our situation.

So back to giving shit footballers half a million plus? Is that your philosophy? And win a few more games - maybe?

Perverse - has Nathan Ross played any worse at club level than Dane Gagai the past 2 years?

 

[Spot On]

2015 - Gagai better
2016 - Ross better
2017 - even

Would you give Nathan Ross 650K plus???

 

[Hardcore_Fan]

2015 - Gagai better
2016 - Ross better
2017 - even

I disagree. Ross has been head and shoulders above gagai this year. Gagai made 2 good runs against the dogs, that's it.

 

[Johns Magic]

2015 - Gagai better
2016 - Ross better
2017 - even

I look forward to offering Ross $700K+ a year when he comes off-contract then. And every other player who is playing above average footy for us.

Now who's not getting it?

 

[perverse]

I noticed no one has commented on my previous question - Has Nathan Ross played an worse than Dane Gagai the past 2 seasons???

As a winger?

There's a reason why Brown has Pete play D instead of the Doge. Not that Gags is dynamite.

I don't really feel the need to get into the nitty gritty of it anyway. We philosophically disagree fundamentally, so we're not going to agree on any of the conclusions born of that philosophy.

650K for Gagai is already overs. I reckon he's worth about 450K. Gotta draw the line somewhere.

If I thought he was worth 650K then I'd agree what's another 50K. But I think there is a stage where you dodge a bullet.

I agree that it's frustrating we can't sign players at the moment but unlike you I'm not convinced that will be the case forever. I don't think the answer in the meantime is to throw excessive money at decent players.

Not sure where you're coming up with $450k dude. That might be his 2008 market value?

Excessive money at decent players is better than excessive money at broken players.

 

[perverse]

I look forward to offering Ross $700K+ a year when he comes off-contract then. And every other player who is playing above average footy for us.

Now who's not getting it?

Ross won't be getting offers like that from the open market in his early 30s.

 

[Johns Magic]

Not sure where you're coming up with $450k dude. That might be his 2008 market value?

Excessive money at decent players is better than excessive money at broken players.

The fact that he is an above average centre. How many centres do you think are on over 500K a year?

 

[Spot On]

I understand some get caught up in the SOO hype and the tries Dane scores. He played well.

As a winger?

There's a reason why Brown has Pete play D instead of the Doge. Not that Gags is dynamite.

I don't really feel the need to get into the nitty gritty of it anyway. We philosophically disagree fundamentally, so we're not going to agree on any of the conclusions born of that philosophy.

And there was good reason for QLD not to pick Dane in the centres last year.

Ross has had a shitload of highlights playing centre. Dane's defence has been poor since entering firsts. I do believe he has looked better this year. However, the question remains - has Ross been as good a performer as Dane the past 2 season and I think the answer is undoubtedly 'yes'. At wing (which for mine is Dane's best position) and in some parts of his attack when at centre. Ross has definitely been one of our best players. As good, if not better than Dane overall. Now would you react differently if Brown offered him 650K?? I'd throw one of your 'tantys' that you told me I wasn't allowed to take from you!! Slots would jump off a freaking building!!!

We don't 'philosophically disagree fundamentally' at all. Offer Dane another 50K and I don't think it would make a difference. All of a sudden you find yourself offering another 50K (manager's smile gets wider) and all of a sudden your up to 750 - 800K for a centre with some defensive issues. I mean, where do you stop.

No, there has to be rules and held to ransom by player managers is not one of Browns. If he falls on his sword then so be it.

 

[perverse]

You would prefer that we lose indefinitely as long as everyone is paid what you deem to be a fair wage. I don't share that view and would prefer we actually spent our salary cap.

That is a massive philosophical difference.

I'm basing my player valuations on 2 things - our current position as a club in all facets, and what the market is saying they are worth. I don't know what your valuations are based on.

The fact that he is an above average centre. How many centres do you think are on over 500K a year?

If you believe the papers, we're trying to lure James Roberts on similar money to Gags offer.

Maybe Dane stays for $650k and Brown looks like a genius. That would be nice.

 

[Spot On]

You would prefer that we lose indefinitely as long as everyone is paid what you deem to be a fair wage. I don't share that view and would prefer we actually spent our salary cap.

That is a massive philosophical difference.

650K plus is more than a fair wage for a centre. It's ludicrous.

There's no massive philosophical difference. Some players like a Matt Scott are desperately needed due to the young props needing someone like him so pay him for that.

But why would you pay centres, wingers and bench players spine money??? You and I would both agree with this 'philosophy' wouldn't we?

 

[Johns Magic]

You would prefer that we lose indefinitely as long as everyone is paid what you deem to be a fair wage. I don't share that view and would prefer we actually spent our salary cap.

That is a massive philosophical difference.

If you believe the papers, we're trying to lure James Roberts on similar money to Gags offer.

Maybe Dane stays for $650k and Brown looks like a genius. That would be nice.

Which paper is that? I don't believe it personally.

As to the philosophy argument, here is the crux: I am happy to pay overs for great players in important positions that will make a real difference to our side. Not overs for a "good" centre who will be easily replaced by someone 500K cheaper.

 

[perverse]

650K plus is more than a fair wage for a centre. It's ludicrous.

There's no massive philosophical difference.

Why would you pay centres, wingers and bench players spine money???

What are you basing your valuations on? $700k gets you a pretty ordinary spine player these days.

 

[Spot On]

What are you basing your valuations on? $700k gets you a pretty ordinary spine player these days.

True. Jarrod Mullen being one of them.

Surely you get my point Perverse? You wouldn't pay wingers, centres and bench props 700K or you wouldn't have money for spine players.

Do you want to pay Gags 700K plus?

The cap is to be just over 9 million next year yes?

An established team would put close 3.5 million into their spine and have 5.5 million to pay 26 other blokes. (estimating everyone, but around those approximations) Centres, wingers and bench players will not be getting a huge wage.

 

[perverse]

Which paper is that? I don't believe it personally.

As to the philosophy argument, here is the crux: I am happy to pay overs for great players in important positions that will make a real difference to our side. Not overs for a "good" centre who will be easily replaced by someone 500K cheaper.

I think if we have someone lined up for that cheap and is actually as good as Dane on and off the field, then that's probably a fair position. I don't know where that player will come from.

 

[perverse]

True. Jarrod Mullen being one of them.

Surely you gout my point Perverse? You wouldn't pay wingers, centre and bench props 700K or you wouldn't have money for spine players.

Do you want to pay Gags 700K plus?

I would offer him that, yes. Then we'll be wasting a bit less of our cap next year than we already did this year.

 

[Hardcore_Fan]

Gagai has 1 try, 1 try assist, 2 line breaks and 26 missed tackles (2nd behind lamb) this season.

Pete mat has 3 try's, 2 line breaks, 2 try assists and 2 line breaks and 20 missed tackles.

One of these players will be earning 800k next season. The other 250k..

Quite simply, those stats do not reflect an 800k player. 800k is elite player money. Gagai is easily replaced with a mid range centre.

 

[perverse]

Gagai has 1 try, 1 try assist, 2 line breaks and 26 missed tackles (2nd behind lamb) this season.

Pete mat has 3 try's, 2 line breaks, 2 try assists and 2 line breaks and 20 missed tackles.

One of these players will be earning 800k next season. The other 250k..

Quite simply, those stats do not reflect an 800k player. 800k is elite player money. Gagai is easily replaced with a mid range centre.

What are their tackle break stats, out of interest?

Which mid range centre??? Who is this guy?