Rumours and Stuff

[Poupou Escobar]

Tbh, LBA's as a measure of a half's creativity are nullified by actual LB's created by the half - and while Gutherson has no LBA's, he's made a few breaks himself.

Again, linebreaks by a half are more to do with his team getting him against an isolated defender. This is also how many LBAs are made - the playmaker up against an isolated defender draws in another defender, creating space for a support runner. The fact Austin has so many LBs and so few LBAs actually shows his lack of playmaking.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Cheers. In that case I'm not sure how my suggestion that halves scoring tries and making line breaks off their own bat would mean they should have more LBAs then the fullback and centres.

For the reason I just gave. If they are able to get into such threatening positions you would expect many more LBAs from them. If his only option at the line is to take on the defender he is a one trick pony. And 0.5 linebreaks per game (last full season's numbers) isn't a lot, especially for so few LBAs.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Yes, but isnt that what a centre does? At some point if your ball skills arent creating breaks or tries your run game will be shut down, unless another play maker puts you in that hole.

Classic example - Austin 16 LBs in 23 games in 2015, to 10 in 19 games last year. This year (small sample, it's true) he has one linebreak in four games.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

You're trying to shoe horn your own argument into a different one to which yours is completely and utterly irrelevant. Go away

No shoehorning required. We are discussing playmakers. That means LBAs are very relevant, even if you're trying to win points against someone else by only looking at linebreaks. Feel free to ignore the LBA discussion if it doesn't suit you, but this is a group forum and LBAs are my f**ken PASSION YOU f**kING merkin!

 

[Bazal]

No shoehorning required. We are discussing playmakers. That means LBAs are very relevant, even if you're trying to win points against someone else by only looking at linebreaks. Feel free to ignore the LBA discussion if it doesn't suit you, but this is a group forum and LBAs are my f**ken PASSION YOU f**kING merkin!

No, you're discussing playmakers.

I was discussing the overall merits of two footballers.

LBAs are a waste of time. There, I said it.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

But won't your running game be shut down by them aiming more defence at you, which will then make it easier to create LBA for others?

But has it done?

Austin's LBs/game since 2015 have gone:
0.7 (2015)
0.5
0.3 (2017 so far, but I would expect it to creep back toward 0.5 after the bigger sample of 2017 complete)

Meanwhile his LBAs have gone:
0.3 (2015)
0.1
0.3 (2017 so far)

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Similarly, if your half has a very strong running game, won't that ensure the defence puts numbers on him, opening up space on the outside? The half may not be attributed with the LBA or TA as the final pass may be thrown further down the backline. However, they caused the overlap. It's the same with most shift plays. The fullback usually throws the final pass but it's usually a simple draw and pass. It's the half and lead runner that create the overlap but they don't figure in the stats.

Except the LBA leader at every club bar Canberra, Cronulla and Penrith (where Moylan plays plenty of first receiver) is a half.

What this means is that while plenty of LBs are created by fullbacks given space wide of their halves, the playmaking ability of said halves is still reflected in LBA stats at the end of a season. However Blake Austin's stats (unlike other more genuine halves) are poor in this area.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Austin is much better than Reynolds, and his line break stats will prove that IMO. Are either what we need? Probably not. But you said that Austin has nothing over Reynolds, which is simply and wholly untrue. He is a far better ball runner and that creates opportunities for the players around him.

I am inclined to agree that Austin is a better player than Reynolds, merely due to his greater size and strength (and probably speed). But the best individual players in the game tend to play at edge forward rather than in the halves, where a more unique and team-focused skill set is required.

 

[Happy MEel]

Except the LBA leader at every club bar Canberra, Cronulla and Penrith (where Moylan plays plenty of first receiver) is a half.

What this means is that while plenty of LBs are created by fullbacks given space wide of their halves, the playmaking ability of said halves is still reflected in LBA stats at the end of a season. However Blake Austin's stats (unlike other more genuine halves) are poor in this area.

What about the comparison between the secondary half and Fullbacks/outside backs.

 

[I'm a loser baby...]

But has it done?

Austin's LBs/game since 2015 have gone:
0.7 (2015)
0.5
0.3 (2017 so far, but I would expect it to creep back toward 0.5 after the bigger sample of 2017 complete)

Meanwhile his LBAs have gone:
0.3 (2015)
0.1
0.3 (2017 so far)

The Raiders right side was on fire last year though. Wouldn't his individual stats be a good chance of suffering if the team is better off when he just passes it to those outside him?

 

[Poupou Escobar]

What about the comparison between the secondary half and Fullbacks/outside backs.

Yeah they're all doing better than Austin.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

The Raiders right side was on fire last year though. Wouldn't his individual stats be a good chance of suffering if the team is better off when he just passes it to those outside him?

Sure but give the credit where it's due - Leilua is perhaps the best attacking player in the game. Whitehead and Rapana go alright too.

The Sharks' right side attack improved when Bird moved out of the halves and was replaced by Townsend, though you would never argue he is a better player or even a better playmaker (though I think he is a better half due to his kicking game). Townsend does a great job of passing the ball to better players in Lewis and Bird, but that doesn't mean he is any better at it than superior (and more expensive) halves would be if playing the same role.

 

[I'm a loser baby...]

Sure but give the credit where it's due - Leilua is perhaps the best attacking player in the game. Whitehead and Rapana go alright too.

The Sharks' right side attack improved when Bird moved out of the halves and was replaced by Townsend, though you would never argue he is a better player or even a better playmaker (though I think he is a better half due to his kicking game). Townsend does a great job of passing the ball to better players in Lewis and Bird, but that doesn't mean he is any better at it than superior (and more expensive) halves would be if playing the same role.

Yes but the suggestion was that Austin's running game had been shut down. Perhaps it hasn't been shut down but is just not being used as much.

 

[I'm a loser baby...]

I'm not saying he's what we're after, only that in the right team he can be just as valuable in the halves as someone who's a 'more skilled' playmaker.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Yes but the suggestion was that Austin's running game had been shut down. Perhaps it hasn't been shut down but is just not being used as much.

If that were the case (and it is - his runs per game has gone from 7.3 in 2015 to 6.3 last year to 6 so far in 2017), and given the large part of his value is due to his running game, then the Raiders are getting less value out of him year on year. Which is not to say every club gets 100% value out of every player in its roster - they would get less than 100% value out of most squad members - but if you're paying a player for his running game you want him running the ball.

Does the threat of Austin's running game create space for the players outside him? Certainly. But his playmaking stats show he doesn't have the best skills for taking advantage of that. I think he's one of the most overrated players in the game. But he is definitely a first grader, and his team finished top two after 26 rounds last year.

 

[I'm a loser baby...]

If that were the case (and it is - his runs per game has gone from 7.3 in 2015 to 6.3 last year to 6 so far in 2017), and given the large part of his value is due to his running game, then the Raiders are getting less value out of him year on year. Which is not to say every club gets 100% value out of every player in its roster - they would get less than 100% value out of most squad members - but if you're paying a player for his running game you want him running the ball.

Does the threat of Austin's running game create space for the players outside him? Certainly. But his playmaking stats show he doesn't have the best skills for taking advantage of that. I think he's one of the most overrated players in the game. But he is definitely a first grader, and his team finished top two after 26 rounds last year.

Some good points there. I question the accuracy of the playmaking stats though. Do they truly reflect the impact of a playmaker with a good running game who isn't often required to take it right to the line? The defenders know he's a threat and are still half a step closer to him than other guys, but he doesn't get the LBA.

 

[Gronk]

Curtis Rona would be a good get if the Force fold.

 

[Eelementary]

Again, linebreaks by a half are more to do with his team getting him against an isolated defender. This is also how many LBAs are made - the playmaker up against an isolated defender draws in another defender, creating space for a support runner. The fact Austin has so many LBs and so few LBAs actually shows his lack of playmaking.

It could be argued, though, that Gutherson was one pass away from LBA's in all his LB's, but chose to back himself instead; the end result was the same.

 

[hineyrulz]

Curtis Rona would be a good get if the Force fold.

lol the Farce are travelling better then a few of the other teams, Yawnion in this country is a shandy off the death rattle.

 

[Happy MEel]

It could be argued, though, that Gutherson was one pass away from LBA's in all his LB's, but chose to back himself instead; the end result was the same.

Without the added risk of another pass.