Rumours and Stuff

[Poupou Escobar]

I'm sure if we went back far enough Pou Bear though you would've suggested both Lussick and Harrison were quality signings at the time too.

I thought Lussick would be as good for us as he was when he went back to Manly last year. Harrison I thought would be a solid toiler like he was for Manly in the 16 games he played the year before coming to us.

You just come up with a dribbling argument whenever Parra buys a particular player, that the player is awesome and whenever they dont resign someone thay they're useless and not required.

Very few players are awesome, and those who are are surely out of our price range. I just point out the positives when we sign (or retain) players to counter the constant negativity (or outright confusion) from fans on here.

You change your opinion on players Poe Bear as necessary as you change your underwear.

I am aware of players' strengths and weaknesses (most players have both) and focus on one or the other depending on the conversation. As it is, I was underwhelmed by Matagi's signing and I feel I have been proven right by his performances so far. He is our worst middle forward, and I wouldn't be surprised I he was out of our top 17 by year's end. Hoffman is another who has been ordinary. However I understand why we signed both players, and I am gladdened that we appear to chase bargains whenever available. I feel this is the key to building a strong squad for a club like ours. We are going as well as I expected (mid table) and are improving our squad smartly. I reckon we'll be top eight certainties next year.

 

[Chipmunk]

They do and I believe that Watmough's case was dealt with expediently in order to get us under the cap. But the timing of the injury may still be seen as a precedent. If we hold on to IDG and he comes good eventually then I'm not sure that's good for us.

IDG is also a bit of a different kind of injury as he would come good or he might never play again,

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Jane Evans is not much more than a fringe plodder, he hates the tough stuff, i hear people calling him a hard ass, well thats BS.
The roosters wont miss him and unless his form has a complete 180, hes going to be below average, hes been going backwards for over a year now.
Hes no special signing although i admit he had a decent break out year.

He's an impact player. We have plenty of tough plodders. Dynamic runners like Evans are what we are lacking in the middle.

 

[Chipmunk]

I thought Lussick would be as good for us as he was when he went back to Manly last year. Harrison I thought would be a solid toiler like he was for Manly in the 16 games he played the year before coming to us.

Very few players are awesome, and those who are are surely out of our price range. I just point out the positives when we sign (or retain) players to counter the constant negativity (or outright confusion) from fans on here.

I am aware of players' strengths and weaknesses (most players have both) and focus on one or the other depending on the conversation. As it is, I was underwhelmed by Matagi's signing and I feel I have been proven right by his performances so far. He is our worst middle forward, and I wouldn't be surprised I he was out of our top 17 by year's end. Hoffman is another who has been ordinary. However I understand why we signed both players, and I am gladdened that we appear to chase bargains whenever available. I feel this is the key to building a strong squad for a club like ours. We are going as well as I expected (mid table) and are improving our squad smartly. I reckon we'll be top eight certainties next year.

For mine, Evans, Mannah, Matagi, Vave, Alvaro, Terepo, et al, are all number 5 or number 6 players on a middle forward depth chart list. On their best day, they're a number 4. Brown is a number 3 and Scott is probably a number 3 or 4, We're missing the number 1 and number 2 middle forward on that depth chart list and until we find that we will continue to be middle of the road.

Having the 6 best number 5 middle forwards in the comp won't make you a great team.

 

[I'm a loser baby...]

For mine, Evans, Mannah, Matagi, Vave, Alvaro, Terepo, et al, are all number 5 or number 6 players on a middle forward depth chart list. On their best day, they're a number 4. Brown is a number 3 and Scott is probably a number 3 or 4, We're missing the number 1 and number 2 middle forward on that depth chart list and until we find that we will continue to be middle of the road.

Having the 6 best number 5 middle forwards in the comp won't make you a great team.

Maybe that's what you get without TPAs.

 

[Chipmunk]

Maybe that's what you get without TPAs.

We had TPA's and still only had Number 3's at best middle forwards.

 

[I'm a loser baby...]

We had TPA's and still only had Number 3's at best middle forwards.

That might be true but the amount of money you can pay people is still critical.

 

[Chipmunk]

That might be true but the amount of money you can pay people is still critical.

The club has chosen to play certain positions alot more than some other clubs do I would imagine.

A prime example is that either of our current first choice halves would be paid more than both of the current Premiers halves...

Our first choice 2-5 would be paid considerably more combined than the previous years Premiers 2-5...

 

[I'm a loser baby...]

The club has chosen to play certain positions alot more than some other clubs do I would imagine.

A prime example is that either of our current halves would be paid more than both of the current Premiers halves...

Our first choice 2-5 would be paid considerably more combined than the previous years Premiers...

Yes. The administrator being one.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

For mine, Evans, Mannah, Matagi, Vave, Alvaro, Terepo, et al, are all number 5 or number 6 players on a middle forward depth chart list. On their best day, they're a number 4. Brown is a number 3 and Scott is probably a number 3 or 4, We're missing the number 1 and number 2 middle forward on that depth chart list and until we find that we will continue to be middle of the road.

Having the 6 best number 5 middle forwards in the comp won't make you a great team.

What a load of shit. Evans has been top 17 at the Roosters since 2015. Mannah has been top 17 since he was 21 years old. Matagi is in his second year of being a top 17 player, as are Vave and Terepo.

Obviously these guys wouldn't all be top 17 at every club, but I reckon Mannah, Brown and Evans would. The others would be top 17 at most clubs.

The point is you don't need one player to be your 'number one prop'. You just need a certain amount of combined attacking output from your middle forwards as well as effective defence. Defence is the responsibility of everyone - you can't ask the opposition to just run at your best defenders - and there is no reason to require the bulk of your attacking output from just one or two middle forwards.

Our number 3, 4 and 5 middle forwards are better than the plodders at probably every other club.

 

[Chipmunk]

Yes. The administrator being one.

We could pay the Administrator $1 billion a year, it's not going to effect what we pay our Top 25 players. The NRL covers you for the salary cap.

 

[Chipmunk]

What a load of shit. Evans has been top 17 at the Roosters since 2015. Mannah has been top 17 since he was 21 years old. Matagi is in his second year of being a top 17 player, as are Vave and Terepo.

Obviously these guys wouldn't all be top 17 at every club, but I reckon Mannah, Brown and Evans would. The others would be top 17 at most clubs.

The point is you don't need one player to be your 'number one prop'. You just need a certain amount of combined attacking output from your middle forwards as well as effective defence. Defence is the responsibility of everyone - you can't ask the opposition to just run at your best defenders - and there is no reason to require the bulk of your attacking output from just one or two middle forwards.

You're missing the point, there's probably 6 middle forwards in a Top 17 at every NRL club every weekend. Some teams run with 5 1/2...

Anyway, all of our middle forwards outside of Brown and Scott would be considered number 5 or 6 at most other clubs. In fact the two new ones, Vave and Matagi, were considered that and even lower at their previous clubs.

Players number 3 to 6 are the players you describe above, the ones who are there to provide a certain amount of combined attacking output (hitup metres) as well as effective defence. It's middle forward number 1 and 2, the ones who bring to the table above just hitup metres and numbers of tackles, the players who might only give that 1 percent differences in certain areas, that will make the difference in any given much come finals time.

The last few Premiers have had this player.

2016 - Sharks - Fifita and Gallen
2015 - Cowboys - Scott, Taumolo and Tamou
2014 - Souths - Burgess x 2
2013 - Roosters - JWH - but then they had Cordner and SBW on an edge, so only needed one great middle forward to go with their 3 to 6's

 

[I'm a loser baby...]

We could pay the Administrator $1 billion a year, it's not going to effect what we pay our Top 25 players. The NRL covers you for the salary cap.

My thinking is that if you've only got $10 million to spend and your opponents have $13 million then you're going to lose if you attempt to play the same game. You've got to take some risks and do things differently.

 

[Chipmunk]

My thinking is that if you've only got $10 million to spend and your opponents have $13 million then you're going to lose if you attempt to play the same game. You've got to take some risks and do things differently.

I'm still not convinced that the Sharks have spent more on players (cap and TPA's) over the last 5 years than we have.

 

[I'm a loser baby...]

I'm still not convinced that the Sharks have spent more on players (cap and TPA's) over the last 5 years than we have.

It was only last year we got busted for cheating though. But even if their current squad is cheaper than ours, they're just one team. Under one year's cap. There will always be some exceptions to the rule.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

You're missing the point, there's probably 6 middle forwards in a Top 17 at every NRL club every weekend. Some teams run with 5 1/2...

Anyway, all of our middle forwards outside of Brown and Scott would be considered number 5 or 6 at most other clubs. In fact the two new ones, Vave and Matagi, were considered that and even lower at their previous clubs.

Players number 3 to 6 are the players you describe above, the ones who are there to provide a certain amount of combined attacking output (hitup metres) as well as effective defence. It's middle forward number 1 and 2, the ones who bring to the table above just hitup metres and numbers of tackles, the players who might only give that 1 percent differences in certain areas, that will make the difference in any given much come finals time.

The last few Premiers have had this player.

2016 - Sharks - Fifita and Gallen
2015 - Cowboys - Scott, Taumolo and Tamou
2014 - Souths - Burgess x 2
2013 - Roosters - JWH - but then they had Cordner and SBW on an edge, so only needed one great middle forward to go with their 3 to 6's

I think you are splitting a team's middle forwards into too many categories (number three, number four, etc). I don't think their clubs rank them that way. Instead there would be probably three or four categories - stars, top 17 players, fringe players and backups. Obviously we lack players in the first category (though I think Brown is getting close), however I reckon we have more of the second category (top 17 players) than we can fit into our top 17 pack, to the point that we have the luxury of starting our right edge forward (Edwards) on the bench, with middle forward Moeroa starting on the edge. Only five times this year have we had to call on middle forwards not good enough for the top 17. We also don't suffer when any given middle forward goes off because our bench are as good as our starters.

It's also a fact that we don't gain our proper shape until Edwards comes on at the 20 minute mark. It's clear that our tactic until that time is to absorb pressure, and not throw away the ball. I was quite impressed with our composure yesterday, and with Norman (plus Brown and Jennings uninjured) we would have won handily. Gutherson had his worst game for us. His kicking game hurt a lot more than did Moses'.

 

[Chipmunk]

I think you are splitting a team's middle forwards into too many categories (number three, number four, etc). I don't think their clubs rank them that way. Instead there would be probably three or four categories - stars, top 17 players, fringe players and backups. Obviously we lack players in the first category (though I think Brown is getting close), however I reckon we have more of the second category (top 17 players) than we can fit into our top 17 pack, to the point that we have the luxury of starting our right edge forward (Edwards) on the bench, with middle forward Moeroa starting on the edge. Only five times this year have we had to call on middle forwards not good enough for the top 17. We also don't suffer when any given middle forward goes off because our bench are as good as our starters.

It's also a fact that we don't gain our proper shape until Edwards comes on at the 20 minute mark. It's clear that our tactic until that time is to absorb pressure, and not throw away the ball. I was quite impressed with our composure yesterday, and with Norman (plus Brown and Jennings uninjured) we would have won handily. Gutherson had his worst game for us. His kicking game hurt a lot more than did Moses'.

Well my theory is that those with 6 non star middle forwards (to use your terms) don't win comps in the modern game and you've got nothing to show me otherwise.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Well like I said, Nathan Brown is getting close and is still young, and in 2019 we only have Moeroa, Mannah and Evans on contract (plus nine backs and edge forwards), so there is plenty of cap space for more middle forwards.

 

[Chipmunk]

Well like I said, Nathan Brown is getting close and is still young, and in 2019 we only have Moeroa, Mannah and Evans on contract (plus nine backs and edge forwards), so there is plenty of cap space for more middle forwards.

We don't need more, we just need better.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

If we do need better we have the space.