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Happy MEel

First Grade
Messages
9,859
No, it means he had very little negative influence on the playing group

It sure does. If you're implying though that he had a positive influence, to quote you, "you're only guessing".

Do you think Arthur would make him captain if he wasn't a leader? Especially when there were obviously other options?

I think BA is fallible and made an error of judgement.This was the point in my original post on the subject. I'm fine with that though as I don't expect anyone to be perfect.

I beg to differ.

So do I
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
91,582
I didn't say anything was wrong with bench players. Actually I will say that Vave would not make our bench.
If we sign him away from his current club then I'm certain he will walk straight into our top 17 since he will be in the top 17 salaries. In fact our recruitment (as at any club) will include a focus on not making well paid players redundant.
 

Happy MEel

First Grade
Messages
9,859
You seem to think being subordinate to somebody else (Scott to Arthur, Foran to Hayson) invalidates somebody's leadership. Is Scott not a leader because he answers to Arthur? An important thing about leaders is that they also make highly influential 'first followers'. This is a principle of hierarchical organisation.

No I don't. I absolutely think Scott is a leader...and a good one. I also happen
to think BA is a brilliant leader but thanks for telling me what I think. I don't however believe Foran is a leader.
 

Kornstar

Coach
Messages
15,578
No I don't. I absolutely think Scott is a leader...and a good one. I also happen
to think BA is a brilliant leader but thanks for telling me what I think. I don't however believe Foran is a leader.

Foran was clearly a leader on the field and I assume at training and possibly even before his suicide attempt his outside life wasn't an issue but now he may struggle being a leader in the future in players eyes.
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
91,582
Given the make up of Parra, I'd consider starting him, playing him for 20 minutes and never using him again.
How about playing him for 15 minutes, giving him a rest for 15, playing him for 10, resting for the duration of halftime and then bringing him off when he starts to drag arse in defence (probably at about the 50 minute mark). That's 35 minutes of game time for three interchanges. Then he can go back on later if game conditions require.

You're one for the stats Pou Bear, go find the teams stats whilst Beau Scott is on the field against not on the field and you'll soon see his influence on the team.
I don't need stats to see that we obviously miss his defence while he's off. Because of that it's impossible to quantify how much of our reduced performance is down to his missing leadership as well.
 

Happy MEel

First Grade
Messages
9,859
Foran was clearly a leader on the field and I assume at training and possibly even before his suicide attempt his outside life wasn't an issue but now he may struggle being a leader in the future in players eyes.

Is that clear though? If so, can you point it out?
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
91,582
I reckon Pou understands leadership. He just doesn't know who provides good leadership. He banged on about Watmough being a great leader. 12 months later Watmough admits his heart wasn't in playing for the eels and never plays again.
I don't recall him saying that. I remember him saying he just wanted to go home when he finished training. In my experience plenty of leaders keep some distance from the people they lead.

He then banged on about Foran being a great leader that the club needs. 6 months later Foran succumbs to mental health issues, OD's in a suicide attempt and is possibly involved in match fixing and never plays again. Pou can you please not make predictions on who our next great leader will be?
I thought Scott would provide good leadership too. Now he's team captain.
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
91,582
It sure does. If you're implying though that he had a positive influence, to quote you, "you're only guessing".
Well I'm not, because I have the facts of Arthur gunning to sign Foran and then making him captain.

I think BA is fallible and made an error of judgement.This was the point in my original post on the subject. I'm fine with that though as I don't expect anyone to be perfect.
I don't think he made an error of judgement at all. He knew Foran as a strong leader at Manly and signed him to provide leadership here (as well as the profile to represent the team as captain). Good judgement. Then when new information came to light that Foran was not committed to the club and was also likely to hurt the club's image he dumped him. More good judgement.
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
91,582
No I don't. I absolutely think Scott is a leader...and a good one. I also happen
to think BA is a brilliant leader but thanks for telling me what I think. I don't however believe Foran is a leader.
I'd say for all his faults, Arthur knows Foran better than either of us, and he saw Foran's leadership before he signed him. Otherwise why would he make him captain?
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
91,582
Foran was clearly a leader on the field and I assume at training and possibly even before his suicide attempt his outside life wasn't an issue but now he may struggle being a leader in the future in players eyes.
Agreed. His credibility is now seriously compromised, which will hurt his ability to influence other players.
 

Joshuatheeel

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
20,182
Just because he is a shadow of the superstar he was doesn't mean he's not still a first grader.
I now some will laugh and disagree but if we got Marshall for one year on a cheap contract ( around $200k), it wouldn't be a bad option.

Yeah he aren't playing very good at the moment but he still has the skills and it's not like anyone with the dragons are playing that good. Mary's coaching doesn't seem to make players better. I reckon BA would get him playing some good footy and put a plan in place to suit him. Also with Norman taking charge he could focus on himself more rather then the team.

Actually hope we are considering him as a possible option. He is also big match player.
 

Chipmunk

Coach
Messages
17,376
If we sign him away from his current club then I'm certain he will walk straight into our top 17 since he will be in the top 17 salaries. In fact our recruitment (as at any club) will include a focus on not making well paid players redundant.

Mannah is a player that we can still pay a hefty salary too, but not have in our Top 17, given that $300k of his salary is not included in the salary cap. He's probably not in the Top 17 of players under our cap at the moment anyway once you put in the $300k discount.
 

Chipmunk

Coach
Messages
17,376
I now some will laugh and disagree but if we got Marshall for one year on a cheap contract ( around $200k), it wouldn't be a bad option.

Yeah he aren't playing very good at the moment but he still has the skills and it's not like anyone with the dragons are playing that good. Mary's coaching doesn't seem to make players better. I reckon BA would get him playing some good footy and put a plan in place to suit him. Also with Norman taking charge he could focus on himself more rather then the team.

Actually hope we are considering him as a possible option. He is also big match player.

He laughed at the $300k offer from Dragons. I dare say he'll go to the UK if he cant get above $300k in the NRL.
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
91,582
I now some will laugh and disagree but if we got Marshall for one year on a cheap contract ( around $200k), it wouldn't be a bad option.
Given how valuable halves are, there wouldn't be a top 17 (top 13 obviously) half in the game on less than about $400k next year. We might get Marshall cheaper than that on a multi-year deal, but given his next contract could be the last one he ever signs he won't be in a hurry to sign a one year deal on the cheap.

I believe (and could be wrong) that there would be enough interest in Marshall that nobody would get him at a rock bottom price. Even $300k is pretty cheap for a guy you expect to play 20+ games in the halves.
 

Avenger

Immortal
Messages
34,068
I like the idea of Adam Reynolds especially seeing that he is also possibly the best goal kicker in the comp. However I cannot see Souths letting him go.

I'd seriously be tempted in signing Carney. He is dynamic and also a competent goal kicker.

The Dragons are now desperate and will more than likely land Hastings for overs. Benji Marshall is past it.

As HJ stated we either go for Robson or Degois for another year but not both. From all reports Cameron King is a poor defender as is Segeyaro which is why I think we never chased him. Cameron King will however be desperate to re-sign or his opportunity will finally pass to play at the highest level.
 

Joshuatheeel

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
20,182
Given how valuable halves are, there wouldn't be a top 17 (top 13 obviously) half in the game on less than about $400k next year. We might get Marshall cheaper than that on a multi-year deal, but given his next contract could be the last one he ever signs he won't be in a hurry to sign a one year deal on the cheap.

I believe (and could be wrong) that there would be enough interest in Marshall that nobody would get him at a rock bottom price. Even $300k is pretty cheap for a guy you expect to play 20+ games in the halves.
Yeah even $300k would be decent value. But he may not have many options very soon, also I think he pretty much can't / won't leave Sydney due to his wife's career / preference which further limits his options.
 

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