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Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
91,616
I think it has more to do with geography than Gus

same reason we were club champions for about 15 years on the trot and Panfers were newbies
Geography is definitely a factor but they have never been this dominant three years in a row. He built something special there and if it’s started to slip it hasn’t yet affected their NRL performances.
 

hineyrulz

Post Whore
Messages
154,146
All our good players now want more money or leaving. Its fine for Penrith and the Storm. They got premierships. We didn't even make it to the last 4 and our squad is now being picked apart. We either now pay premium to keep what's left or blow it up and start again.

Personaly I would of blown it up for 2023 and let Guth and RCG or Jnr walk.
The Guth extension after the way he behaved is dare i say it another rash decision???
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
91,616
All our good players now want more money or leaving. Its fine for Penrith and the Storm. They got premierships. We didn't even make it to the last 4 and our squad is now being picked apart. We either now pay premium to keep what's left or blow it up and start again.

Personaly I would of blown it up for 2023 and let Guth and RCG or Jnr walk.
We have decided to blow it up and start again. But you can't do that without senior leaders in your squad. Penrith wouldn't have been where they are now without guys like Maloney, Merrin, Tamou, Wallace, Whare and Mansour. Strong teams need a bunch of players with 150+ games under their belt. The exception is where a team has an insane level of talent. You're more likely to be able to fit that much experience under the cap than that much football talent.
 

emjaycee

Coach
Messages
13,841
Yes. And the Dogs are closer to a title then we are.
This I feel is it for us for a while. Dogs and Broncos are coming up. As are the Dragons.
Do you think the Dogs, Broncos and Dragons any more likely to beat the Panthers and the Storm in 2022/23 than we were in 2020/21? Especially in the finals?

In 2021 only 2 teams beat Melbourne all year - us and Penrith beat them twice each.
Penrith lost 2 games during Origin and 1 game to Melbourne and then lost in the Qualifer to Souths.
Apart from our reserve grade team getting towelled up in the final round, Penrith beat us by 1 point in the season proper and 2 points in the finals. Us and Melb are the only team they beat in 2021 by less than 6 points (excl finals).

In 2022 Panthers have beaten Dogs by 20, Dragons by 4 (with no Cleary) and Broncos by 28.
Are you sure these 3 teams are closer than us?
 

hindy111

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62,989
The Guth extension after the way he behaved is dare i say it another rash decision???


The way our side is built.....

Let Guth and let's say RCG walk. That leave 1.5 mill.

Keep Jnr,Brown,Moses,Pensini and build around that for 2024/2025. Yes it probably meant a poor 2023.

What we face now is possibly an ok to average 2023 and then I predict a disaster from 2024-2026. I think we now will lose either Moses or Brown in this period. Jnr,Guth and RCG will age and form will dive off a cliff. 25% of our cap will be tied up on them. We won't be able to rebuild untill there finished.
I do hope I am wrong. Lot of footy for a prop.
 

hindy111

Post Whore
Messages
62,989
Do you think the Dogs, Broncos and Dragons any more likely to beat the Panthers and the Storm in 2022/23 than we were in 2020/21? Especially in the finals?

In 2021 only 2 teams beat Melbourne all year - us and Penrith beat them twice each.
Penrith lost 2 games during Origin and 1 game to Melbourne and then lost in the Qualifer to Souths.
Apart from our reserve grade team getting towelled up in the final round, Penrith beat us by 1 point in the season proper and 2 points in the finals. Us and Melb are the only team they beat in 2021 by less than 6 points (excl finals).

In 2022 Panthers have beaten Dogs by 20, Dragons by 4 (with no Cleary) and Broncos by 28.
Are you sure these 3 teams are closer than us?


Yes I am. This is it for us and that's just my opinion. I do not see us getting stronger in 2023.

Dogs,Saints and Broncos are all on the way up. Exciting young guns and hungry. Our squad is getting older, slower and weaker.

You have your own thoughts and strategies and so do I. As I said once we lost Mahoney I woukd of blown it up and re set in 2023. Re shaped the squad for 2024 and kept hold of Dylan,Pensini and Moses as the building blocks
 

emjaycee

Coach
Messages
13,841
The way our side is built.....

Let Guth and let's say RCG walk. That leave 1.5 mill.

Keep Jnr,Brown,Moses,Pensini and build around that for 2024/2025. Yes it probably meant a poor 2023.

What we face now is possibly an ok to average 2023 and then I predict a disaster from 2024-2026. I think we now will lose either Moses or Brown in this period. Jnr,Guth and RCG will age and form will dive off a cliff. 25% of our cap will be tied up on them. We won't be able to rebuild untill there finished.
I do hope I am wrong. Lot of footy for a prop.
Maybe we should focus on 2022 and worry about what the 2023 squad will look like and what it will do once we know who is in it. We still have at least 9 spots to fill so the makeup of the squad will definitely be different to what it is today.
 

Cloeel

Juniors
Messages
859
It doesn't matter whether they were sacked, the point is they were replaced, which is what merkins are advocating for Arthur's. We shouldn't have extended him so he would be gone. It's no different to sacking him from a continuity perspective.

My choice of words was poor.
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
91,616
Gus was good but also handed out 5yr deals to Rcg,Blake,Cartwright,Moylan,Whare.... Signed Hiku for big dollars along with DWZ.....
All good players and if still at the club all would've been in the premiership side. But signing these players didn't stop Penrith replacing them with merkins almost as good but half the price.
 

hindy111

Post Whore
Messages
62,989
Maybe we should focus on 2022 and worry about what the 2023 squad will look like and what it will do once we know who is in it. We still have at least 9 spots to fill so the makeup of the squad will definitely be different to what it is today.

I assumed we have no money?

And sure I hope I am wrong. I just have a bad vibe and not liking what I am seeing at the moment.
 

Incorrect

Coach
Messages
12,776
The way our side is built.....

Let Guth and let's say RCG walk. That leave 1.5 mill.

Keep Jnr,Brown,Moses,Pensini and build around that for 2024/2025. Yes it probably meant a poor 2023.

What we face now is possibly an ok to average 2023 and then I predict a disaster from 2024-2026. I think we now will lose either Moses or Brown in this period. Jnr,Guth and RCG will age and form will dive off a cliff. 25% of our cap will be tied up on them. We won't be able to rebuild untill there finished.
I do hope I am wrong. Lot of footy for a prop.
Keeping RCG or Junior long term was a good idea, but not both I reckon.... I have a feeling we'll manage to hold on to Moses but I think Drown will be gone after 2023....
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
91,616
Exactly, Penrith bar a brief period in the early 90's and 2000's has been a pretty average club in their entire existence. There is absolutely no reason we can't do something similar like they have. To say otherwise is just a cop out.

The first thing they did was realise they had a promising young roster and they knew the coach they had wasn't capable of getting them to the next level. Sound familiar???? And what did we do???? Extend a proven dud.
Their coach was just fine. They sacked him so they could give a job to the father of the star young halfback they were desperate to re-sign without paying overs. The same dad they decided couldn't get them to the next level a few years earlier. Suddenly he's good enough to bring back? It's about how much talent you can fit under the cap. If you can get a star player cheaper by giving his dad a job or even just one of his mates why not do it?
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
91,616
The way our side is built.....

Let Guth and let's say RCG walk. That leave 1.5 mill.

Keep Jnr,Brown,Moses,Pensini and build around that for 2024/2025. Yes it probably meant a poor 2023.

What we face now is possibly an ok to average 2023 and then I predict a disaster from 2024-2026. I think we now will lose either Moses or Brown in this period. Jnr,Guth and RCG will age and form will dive off a cliff. 25% of our cap will be tied up on them. We won't be able to rebuild untill there finished.
I do hope I am wrong. Lot of footy for a prop.
Is it any different to losing Origin or international players like Hiku, Mansour, Merrin, Moylan, Soward, Wallace, DWZ, Whare, Tamou, RCG, Maloney, Peachey and Grant? Penrith lost plenty of good players and improved. The same can happen for us if we are spending enough on junior recruitment. If we're not it doesn't really matter what we do at the top.

As for Paulo, Gutherson and RCG taking up too much of our cap, we don't pay overs. Signing leaders a year too long is part of keeping their price down.
 

hineyrulz

Post Whore
Messages
154,146
Their coach was just fine. They sacked him so they could give a job to the father of the star young halfback they were desperate to re-sign without paying overs. The same dad they decided couldn't get them to the next level a few years earlier. Suddenly he's good enough to bring back? It's about how much talent you can fit under the cap. If you can get a star player cheaper by giving his dad a job or even just one of his mates why not do it?
lol yeah nah, Hook is an absolute potato.

Gus got rid of Cleary, Gus was cleared out so they could bring him back. Why would they of brought back Cleary if he couldn't coach no matter how good his son was?????

He proved at the Warriors he could coach, they had a tough run with injuries in 2015/16 as well. Maybe Cleary was sick of him interfering and told the merkin to f**k off???? Who knows but Cleary has now made 3 GF's with 2 different clubs while your mate Bea can't even get to week 3.
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
91,616
Yes I am. This is it for us and that's just my opinion. I do not see us getting stronger in 2023.
Of course not. Our premiership window was 2020-2022. There's no guarantees you'll win three straight finals matches to win a comp. Penrith won their three last year by less than a converted try. Each game was a coin flip.
Dogs,Saints and Broncos are all on the way up.
You'd hope so because they've all been poor for years. The salary cap means they should eventually get back up. But we are a premiership chance this year (currently $11) and those clubs are not, so we are closer than they are.
 

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