Rumours and Stuff

[I bleed blue & gold]

P

Gould beefed up the Dogs juniors in 16 weeks. They won the HM and now have some of the best kids in the comp.

We may of neglected our juniors. But I recall when Dylan and Reed come thru 5-6yrs ago now BA commenting how our juniors pathways had been neglected but now we will start to see some juniors coming thru again as they've repaired them.
In 2014 there was plenty of talk about how they are fixing them and will take 5yrs so it made sense.

The question is what has happened since?

Prob turned to shit when we tried to save money. Like when we had no Football manager and BA had to try do it by himself.

 

[hindy111]

P

Prob turned to shit when we tried to save money. Like when we had no Football manager and BA had to try do it by himself.

Perhaps. I think its time to introduce a draft. Maybe you give your club a choice of 2 x development players for kids who are 19 but the rest go to draft.
It's not fair if a rich club can just stockpile all the best kids.

 

[King-Gutho94]

Gould beefed up the Dogs juniors in 16 weeks. They won the HM and now have some of the best kids in the comp.

We may of neglected our juniors. But I recall when Dylan and Reed come thru 5-6yrs ago now BA commenting how our juniors pathways had been neglected but now we will start to see some juniors coming thru again as they've repaired them.
In 2014 there was plenty of talk about how they are fixing them and will take 5yrs so it made sense.

The question is what has happened since?

We have had 4 local juniors since 2021 debut for the club that have come from the Rouse Hill Rhinos.

2 of them played in a GF.

Junior development is flying.

 

[TheRam]

I always just look at the pros and cons. No point advocating for a position when we don’t have all the information.

So if we sack Arthur’s I’ll know there were reasons - there are obviously better coaches out there - but just because there are better coaches doesn’t entitle the likes of me to put shit on his coaching ability. Whatever his shortcomings I’ll never be able to tell what they are, and neither will you.

Likewise, if I remind you the reasons he is still good enough to be our coach, it doesn’t mean I think he is the best coach of all time and no merkin could do better. It just means you couldn’t do better (neither could I) and you should know your place, which is to not criticise things you don’t know about.

So I trust the club to make good decisions, whether they sack Arthur’s or extend him for another decade. They are pros, and we are not.

It's people like you and your ridiculous perspective that the Nazi's got away with doing what they did.

 

[TheRam]

NO YOU CAN ALL SHUT YOUR f**kEN MOUTHS FFS!!!!!

But we don't, because the feedback loop between club action and visible outcome is extremely opaque. We have zero visibility of most decisions that are made (and not made) and the results of all these decisions are aggregated into a few highly visible events: match results, player/staff movements, official announcements, and stories published by the media (including social media) with their own agendas.

Of course they can make poor decisions. The point is nobody can know in advance the actual level of risk attached to a decision, and in hindsight we often don't know either. If some decision had a 2% chance of leading to disaster, will the presence or absence of disaster prove it either way? If we (incorrectly) assessed the risk as 3% will we ever know if we were right? The outcome doesn't prove our risk assessment correct or otherwise.

How much more so for an external observer who had access to even less information?

How is this for an external observer. He has won nothing in 10 FU*KING YEARS!!!

And if anyone think he is going to change that in the next 2 years they have rocks in their head.

 

[84 Baby]

Gould beefed up the Dogs juniors in 16 weeks. They won the HM and now have some of the best kids in the comp.

We may of neglected our juniors. But I recall when Dylan and Reed come thru 5-6yrs ago now BA commenting how our juniors pathways had been neglected but now we will start to see some juniors coming thru again as they've repaired them.
In 2014 there was plenty of talk about how they are fixing them and will take 5yrs so it made sense.

The question is what has happened since?

No it’s not. The question is what is happening now?

 

[84 Baby]

It's people like you and your ridiculous perspective that the Nazi's got away with doing what they did.

Aren’t you pro-Trump/anti-globalism?

 

[84 Baby]

Perhaps. I think its time to introduce a draft. Maybe you give your club a choice of 2 x development players for kids who are 19 but the rest go to draft.
It's not fair if a rich club can just stockpile all the best kids.

I suggested that preseason while the NRL battles out the CBA. Give players the cash while taking other things from them

 

[TheRam]

We are all entitled to our opinions (I have them too). We just need to realise how f**king dumb we are to be certain of anything around non-playing aspects of rugby league, or probably any sport.

For example, I believe our club is getting stronger (i.e. better resourced) in recent years. I base this on some general signaling in official and unofficial club media, plus the (relatively) recent change to our constitution that should, in theory, make us more stable and professional. A major factor in my belief that we are getting stronger (better resourced) is our trend of onfield results.

Average win rate over the previous X years:

Number of years before 2023	Cumulative win rate (includes 2023 wins)
5 (since 2018)	54.8%
10 (since 2013)	50.2%
15 (since 2008)	46.5%
20 (since 2003)	47.5%
30 (since 1993)	48.8%
40 (since 1983)	49.9%
50 (since 1973)	51.5%
60 (since 1963)	50.7%
70 (since 1953)	47.6%
76 (since 1947)	46.4%

Even with the 2018 wooden spoon (which occurred before the constitution change and governance restructure), our win rate over the past five years is better than for the rest (cumulatively) of our history. But five years is a small sample in the scheme of things, so I am more hopeful than confident. We have had similar strong periods throughout our history, notably 1975-1987 (65% win rate), which obviously didn't last. There was also 1997-2001 (66%), which was much briefer (and therefore less relevant). Our current four-and-a-third (2019-2023) year period (since constitution change) sees us winning 61%, even with our ordinary start this year. It might be a flash in the pan but it might also signal a real change in our strength as a club. Finding out will be very exciting, but second guessing individual results, signings/losses or media reports won't provide anything more than a narrative. Much more data is required to draw any insight about the club's decision-making.

The only thing that has really changed recently is we have a halfback that keeps us in most games with his kicking game even if he can be quiet in other parts of his game. We haven't really had that since Sterlo and the players then have confidence and jump on the back of it and we stay in games longer because of it even when we aren't playing all that well. It allows our team to believe winning is possible even when they are losing all other metrics. Take Moses out and put in a lesser player which is the history of the Eels since 1986 and those recent percentages would totally change. It has very little to do with the rest of the squad or coaching staff having improved, even though they have, just like every other club that is winning.

The club restructure is obviously the best thing that has happened for our club but until we start producing quality juniors again all this recent success will quickly disappear once Moses is gone, because as we all know halves don't grow on trees and great coaches like Bennett don't either who you could bank on unearthing or recruiting one.

Halves, great halves in particular make or break a squad. Look at the Tigers or Dogs, both this year have very good rosters but can't and won't get off of the bottom of the ladder and into the 8, to give them a positive winning percentage until the get a quality Half. No surprise Brooks has his best game in a year or two and they beat the Premiers. No surprise the Warriors are having a great season thus far with Johnson having his best season in years. Will anyone be surprised if Manly fall in a heap once DCE retires unless by some miracle they somehow are blessed in finding a new quality half? Look how miraculously the Broncos fortunes have changed when Reynolds joined their squad or Hynes with at the Sharks. The Raiders will remain the Faiders till they can recruit a quality half. The only team that has one but can't seems to succeed with him are the Dragons. But that is due to politics and coaching issues which can happen as it used to with us. They need to get that right like we had to before things can eventually go in the right direction. The problem though will be by the time they get(if) that right Hunt will probably be long gone. Then it will be in the lap of the football Gods when they can find another quality playmaking half.

No the only thing on the playing field that has changed for us is we have been very lucky to have Moses in our team. When I say lucky, I mean Potato Head needs to be applauded for having the nous to bring him back to our club. Without him we would be cellar dwellers of the likes of the Tigers. His consistent kicking game and decent ability with the ball for what around 5-6 years now has allowed us to be semi finalists for the majority of his time here. Potato Heads greatest accomplishment as coach here. Gutho is second.

Halves make or break almost all coaches and clubs. End of.

 

[Soren Lorenson]

It's people like you and your ridiculous perspective that the Nazi's got away with doing what they did.

what the f**k Ram, it's footy.

 

[TheRam]

Hagan, Kearney, and Stuart took a scorched earth approach with our junior systems - theh scorched it all down, and then salted the earth, to top it all off.

Getting the right people in the right places to address the utter lack of care shown by these guys takes time.

We also have had to completely overhaul the way our junior pathways work - again, courtesy of the Three Stooges.

Penrith's systems never got neglected as bad as ours did, and so correcting the errors was a far simpler process.

We are essentially looking at starting everything from scratch - this takes time, to do properly.

I don't believe that. It takes one or two years to set it right and then just tweak it here and there where necessary. We aren't building a nation here from scratch mate. It is a football club. Set the pathways and programs you wish to implement and hire the appropriate people.

As for comparing us to how bad Penrith's system was, you should go listen to all the crap that Gould had to fix from the ground up at the Panthers. I keep saying it, but you guys think that we are trying to invent cold fusion energy or something. It is a football club. There are tons of examples of what to do and what not to do. It just takes someone with a little logic and knowhow and it can be done quite quickly if you allow him to do it without interference.

I just don't think we have ever really hired anyone that has the right smarts long enough or resources to make the necessary changes since Brian Smith left.

 

[Tiger5150]

The only thing that has really changed recently is we have a halfback that keeps us in most games with his kicking game even if he can be quiet in other parts of his game. We haven't really had that since Sterlo and the players then have confidence and jump on the back of it and we stay in games longer because of it even when we aren't playing all that well. It allows our team to believe winning is possible even when they are losing all other metrics. Take Moses out and put in a lesser player which is the history of the Eels since 1986 and those recent percentages would totally change. It has very little to do with the rest of the squad or coaching staff having improved, even though they have, just like every other club that is winning.

The club restructure is obviously the best thing that has happened for our club but until we start producing quality juniors again all this recent success will quickly disappear once Moses is gone, because as we all know halves don't grow on trees and great coaches like Bennett don't either who you could bank on unearthing or recruiting one.

Halves, great halves in particular make or break a squad. Look at the Tigers or Dogs, both this year have very good rosters but can't and won't get off of the bottom of the ladder and into the 8, to give them a positive winning percentage until the get a quality Half. No surprise Brooks has his best game in a year or two and they beat the Premiers. No surprise the Warriors are having a great season thus far with Johnson having his best season in years. Will anyone be surprised if Manly fall in a heap once DCE retires unless by some miracle they somehow are blessed in finding a new quality half? Look how miraculously the Broncos fortunes have changed when Reynolds joined their squad or Hynes with at the Sharks. The Raiders will remain the Faiders till they can recruit a quality half. The only team that has one but can't seems to succeed with him are the Dragons. But that is due to politics and coaching issues which can happen as it used to with us. They need to get that right like we had to before things can eventually go in the right direction. The problem though will be by the time they get(if) that right Hunt will probably be long gone. Then it will be in the lap of the football Gods when they can find another quality playmaking half.

No the only thing on the playing field that has changed for us is we have been very lucky to have Moses in our team. When I say lucky, I mean Potato Head needs to be applauded for having the nous to bring him back to our club. Without him we would be cellar dwellers of the likes of the Tigers. His consistent kicking game and decent ability with the ball for what around 5-6 years now has allowed us to be semi finalists for the majority of his time here. Potato Heads greatest accomplishment as coach here. Gutho is second.

Halves make or break almost all coaches and clubs. End of.

Correct
TL/DR - Yep

 

[TheRam]

Gould beefed up the Dogs juniors in 16 weeks. They won the HM and now have some of the best kids in the comp.

We may of neglected our juniors. But I recall when Dylan and Reed come thru 5-6yrs ago now BA commenting how our juniors pathways had been neglected but now we will start to see some juniors coming thru again as they've repaired them.
In 2014 there was plenty of talk about how they are fixing them and will take 5yrs so it made sense.

The question is what has happened since?

These apologists think we have no memory. All we ever get from the club are be patient type of comments and excuses.

 

[TheRam]

No it’s not. The question is what is happening now?

I think you need to edumacate yourself mate. The word 'since' includes up to and including now.

 

[Eelementary]

But Surely it doesn’t take 10 years?? And if we do starting pumping quality juniors out do we have the right coach and staff to develop and nurture them into first graders??

Bea would much rather to sign a guy like Davey than bring a guy like Matale through. It already looks like his game is stagnating being dumped back to the bench in reserves. Same as plodders like Murchie and Mummamoasia.

Honestly, I don't know.

I get the impression that measures to address this weren't seriously put into place until fairly recently.

But I don't know.

 

[Eelementary]

I don't believe that. It takes one or two years to set it right and then just tweak it here and there where necessary. We aren't building a nation here from scratch mate. It is a football club. Set the pathways and programs you wish to implement and hire the appropriate people.

As for comparing us to how bad Penrith's system was, you should go listen to all the crap that Gould had to fix from the ground up at the Panthers. I keep saying it, but you guys think that we are trying to invent cold fusion energy or something. It is a football club. There are tons of examples of what to do and what not to do. It just takes someone with a little logic and knowhow and it can be done quite quickly if you allow him to do it without interference.

I just don't think we have ever really hired anyone that has the right smarts long enough or resources to make the necessary changes since Brian Smith left.

I think you're right there - I think part of the issue is we didn't spend enough time, and money, addressing this until recently.

 

[hineyrulz]

Honestly, I don't know.

I get the impression that measures to address this weren't seriously put into place until fairly recently.

But I don't know.

But we can all agree mate it will be very exciting!!

 

[84 Baby]

I think you need to edumacate yourself mate. The word 'since' includes up to and including now.

Yes but the word “now” can preclude itself from things that have happened up to now.
You and hindy have been fixated on juniors that haven’t come through in the past X years. To say blah blah is at fault for it is only punishment, it isn’t fixing the problem. And to lay the fault at individuals is highly likely a misidentification of what the problem actually is.

 

[84 Baby]

Honestly, I don't know.

I get the impression that measures to address this weren't seriously put into place until fairly recently.

But I don't know.

I think measures were put in place but perhaps that they weren’t the correct ones, e.g. BA being given too much power/responsibility.
Which then leads into:

I don't believe that. It takes one or two years to set it right and then just tweak it here and there where necessary. We aren't building a nation here from scratch mate. It is a football club. Set the pathways and programs you wish to implement and hire the appropriate people.

As for comparing us to how bad Penrith's system was, you should go listen to all the crap that Gould had to fix from the ground up at the Panthers. I keep saying it, but you guys think that we are trying to invent cold fusion energy or something. It is a football club. There are tons of examples of what to do and what not to do. It just takes someone with a little logic and knowhow and it can be done quite quickly if you allow him to do it without interference.

I just don't think we have ever really hired anyone that has the right smarts long enough or resources to make the necessary changes since Brian Smith left.

I think you're right there - I think part of the issue is we didn't spend enough time, and money, addressing this until recently.

That it’s not rocket science to implement but it requires time. And by time I don’t mean “but it’s taken 10 years”, I mean consistent effort. It’s not as simple as “here’s the pathway” and walk away. It’s an evolving environment that also requires a lot of personalisation to each player. Going back to BA having too much power, we get the issue of those people involved have biases, which might work with some things but then fail at others, for example BA developing Penisini but missing the likes of Olaukautu(sp?). But that can only be identified by the club after the fact.

All that to say in the BA decade (note not excusing BA), the club was shitly administrated up to the cap scandal, then the caretaker board wasn’t really interested in making the club the best but just getting rid of the shit, that led to the BA doing everything year/s, now as the board takes more control back, there’s a better system in place and it’ll be evaluated and improved over time.

 

[TheRam]

I think measures were put in place but perhaps that they weren’t the correct ones, e.g. BA being given too much power/responsibility.
Which then leads into:


That it’s not rocket science to implement but it requires time. And by time I don’t mean “but it’s taken 10 years”, I mean consistent effort. It’s not as simple as “here’s the pathway” and walk away. It’s an evolving environment that also requires a lot of personalisation to each player. Going back to BA having too much power, we get the issue of those people involved have biases, which might work with some things but then fail at others, for example BA developing Penisini but missing the likes of Olaukautu(sp?). But that can only be identified by the club after the fact.

All that to say in the BA decade (note not excusing BA), the club was shitly administrated up to the cap scandal, then the caretaker board wasn’t really interested in making the club the best but just getting rid of the shit, that led to the BA doing everything year/s, now as the board takes more control back, there’s a better system in place and it’ll be evaluated and improved over time.

Oh God, I am just so tired of going through this old ground again and again. You never offer up any real solutions, but a mixed bag of excuses or you just rejig what I or others have already covered and or make ridiculous statements like the one highlighted. No one has ever suggested to set it up and walk away ffs!

I'm just tired of re-explaining these things over and over. I'm done. Everything is fine. I can't wait till we see the next Jarryd Hayne unleashed wearing the Blue and Gold. I maybe 150 years old by then, but hey better late then never.

Peace mate. I now need to go and walk my turtle and then go wash my balls.