Rumours and Stuff

[the phantom menace]

He won't obey and put the gimp mask on...

 

[84 Baby]

I think there's a thread for those kinds of backdoor shenanigans..... Take it there merkins...

Succession thread?

 

[the phantom menace]

 

[Gary Gutful]

Depends. He has been coaching for much longer and should have a longer list of successes. But if you care about the failures then Cleary’s list is very long. He has failed to improve plenty of nuffies.

There is a whole book of failures covering his tigers period alone.

 

[Tiger5150]

There is a whole book of failures covering his tigers period alone.

80% of Tigers current failures can still be tied back to Cleary IMO. Im not convinced he didnt do it intentionally knowing he was going to end up at Penrith.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Shut the forum down.

Pou has determined that no one is entitled to an opinion on the club, team or coach unless they have the information that only the club, team or coach would have!

This is killer robot language….

We are all entitled to our opinions (I have them too). We just need to realise how f**king dumb we are to be certain of anything around non-playing aspects of rugby league, or probably any sport.

For example, I believe our club is getting stronger (i.e. better resourced) in recent years. I base this on some general signaling in official and unofficial club media, plus the (relatively) recent change to our constitution that should, in theory, make us more stable and professional. A major factor in my belief that we are getting stronger (better resourced) is our trend of onfield results.

Average win rate over the previous X years:

Number of years before 2023	Cumulative win rate (includes 2023 wins)
5 (since 2018)	54.8%
10 (since 2013)	50.2%
15 (since 2008)	46.5%
20 (since 2003)	47.5%
30 (since 1993)	48.8%
40 (since 1983)	49.9%
50 (since 1973)	51.5%
60 (since 1963)	50.7%
70 (since 1953)	47.6%
76 (since 1947)	46.4%

Even with the 2018 wooden spoon (which occurred before the constitution change and governance restructure), our win rate over the past five years is better than for the rest (cumulatively) of our history. But five years is a small sample in the scheme of things, so I am more hopeful than confident. We have had similar strong periods throughout our history, notably 1975-1987 (65% win rate), which obviously didn't last. There was also 1997-2001 (66%), which was much briefer (and therefore less relevant). Our current four-and-a-third (2019-2023) year period (since constitution change) sees us winning 61%, even with our ordinary start this year. It might be a flash in the pan but it might also signal a real change in our strength as a club. Finding out will be very exciting, but second guessing individual results, signings/losses or media reports won't provide anything more than a narrative. Much more data is required to draw any insight about the club's decision-making.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

So in answering Hindy's questions "Do you ever change the coach then?" and "Do you take the risk?" your TL | DR reply/opinion was essentially "no" and "no" - or you can't agree with the suggestion until someone else (the "pros") decide on it?

I won't complain if they sack him tomorrow. I just don't see how anyone could logically argue that sacking Brad Arthur is the obvious way to improve the club. There is zero evidence supporting it.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Succession thread?

I love that show!

 

[the phantom menace]

I won't complain if they sack him tomorrow.

Of course not, because the decision will have already been made by someone else!

 

[Poupou Escobar]

It’s their decision to make. They all want the club to succeed.

 

[the phantom menace]

Sure, but that's got nothing to do with people/fans being able to have and vent their own (differing) opinions about such matters on a footy forum but...

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Sure, if they're happy to have merkins disagree with them why not share their shit opinions on a footy forum.

 

[the phantom menace]

 

[Eelementary]

Mate, Gould turned the Panthers, who were basically ready for administration when he came in and their juniors systems were a car wreck around and winning playing 3 grand finals and winning 2 so far in less then what 6-7 years? But leading up to that they were producing real talent almost from within the first couple of years. I doesn't take that long. Just like Semi, talent is talent. You just need the right people in charge that can identify and then bring it along.

Where are the real gems in our nursery? You don't need to create, speed, power, stepping agility or instinct? They are there or they aren't. I'm not talking about gifted play makers here. They do need intense development. What I'm talking about is raw athletic ability like most NRL players have. We then just need to build on it with endurance and footy smarts. That happens in the lower grades. But their ability is already evident.

So what are you trying to say? We have all these great kids coming through that we have been taking on board but then because it takes years to set things right, we have been somehow butchering them and their natural talents? I don't buy it. I think we have been failing mostly on identification and some on retention. Otherwise if we have been blessed with a good handful or two of quality kids and all we have managed to do is stuff them up because of our structures still being sh*t over the last 10 years that is outrages and ridiculous and I call bullsh*t.

Like I said, it only takes a year or so to set up the systems you want to build and play under. They are just managerial decisions ffs. No one has to go out and build the Harbour Bridge. Make the right decisions in the office, then go out and hire(no one does it all on their own) the right people for each task, then build on that and tweak and adjust where necessary and watch with in a couple of year the kids developing and within 3-4 years max, you should start seeing the fruits of your labour sprout and ripen if you got it right.

But obviously we are still trying to get it right and offering a million and one excuses as to why it hasn't happened yet. While Gould in the space of what 12-18 months with almost no juniors in his catchment area has started to add and develop in his lower grades players that he can call on to the point that he has excess outside backs and it is just the beginning.

If you get it right it take 3-4 years max before you start seeing them in the NRL. We are still trying to get it right which is nonsense. What you are saying is we have all these football experts from the Head coach to the Head of Football down, and none of then in the 9 years before we hired Brown has a clue as to how bad it was? Like I said, I call bullsh*t. If that were true they have all been stealing their salaries and they are totally inept.

But anyway again we wait and see. Nothing else we can do.

To highlight the point. Look at our only outside back real success story in Penisini, why has he been able to rise so prominently in the NRL? I'll tell you why, genuine good attitude and talent. Not our processes. He was already showing these qualities back at Kings Collage and he is the only one that we IDENTIFIED correctly and then our processes put the stamina and durability and a little polish on him to handle the NRL. Identification comes first, then the processes.

Hagan, Kearney, and Stuart took a scorched earth approach with our junior systems - theh scorched it all down, and then salted the earth, to top it all off.

Getting the right people in the right places to address the utter lack of care shown by these guys takes time.

We also have had to completely overhaul the way our junior pathways work - again, courtesy of the Three Stooges.

Penrith's systems never got neglected as bad as ours did, and so correcting the errors was a far simpler process.

We are essentially looking at starting everything from scratch - this takes time, to do properly.

 

[hineyrulz]

Hagan, Kearney, and Stuart took a scorched earth approach with our junior systems - theh scorched it all down, and then salted the earth, to top it all off.

Getting the right people in the right places to address the utter lack of care shown by these guys takes time.

We also have had to completely overhaul the way our junior pathways work - again, courtesy of the Three Stooges.

Penrith's systems never got neglected as bad as ours did, and so correcting the errors was a far simpler process.

We are essentially looking at starting everything from scratch - this takes time, to do properly.

But Surely it doesn’t take 10 years?? And if we do starting pumping quality juniors out do we have the right coach and staff to develop and nurture them into first graders??

Bea would much rather to sign a guy like Davey than bring a guy like Matale through. It already looks like his game is stagnating being dumped back to the bench in reserves. Same as plodders like Murchie and Mummamoasia.

 

[84 Baby]

But Surely it doesn’t take 10 years?? And if we do starting pumping quality juniors out do we have the right coach and staff to develop and nurture them into first graders??

Bea would much rather to sign a guy like Davey than bring a guy like Matale through. It already looks like his game is stagnating being dumped back to the bench in reserves. Same as plodders like Murchie and Mummamoasia.

Don’t pretend you’d heard of Mataele before this years trials.

And are you saying Mataele is a quality produced junior then?

 

[Twizzle]

Can the “3” of you just f**k and get it over with?

thank you for that image which will be stuck in my head all morning

not that there is anything wrong with that

 

[lingard]

We are all entitled to our opinions (I have them too). We just need to realise how f**king dumb we are to be certain of anything around non-playing aspects of rugby league, or probably any sport.

For example, I believe our club is getting stronger (i.e. better resourced) in recent years. I base this on some general signaling in official and unofficial club media, plus the (relatively) recent change to our constitution that should, in theory, make us more stable and professional. A major factor in my belief that we are getting stronger (better resourced) is our trend of onfield results.

Average win rate over the previous X years:

Number of years before 2023	Cumulative win rate (includes 2023 wins)
5 (since 2018)	54.8%
10 (since 2013)	50.2%
15 (since 2008)	46.5%
20 (since 2003)	47.5%
30 (since 1993)	48.8%
40 (since 1983)	49.9%
50 (since 1973)	51.5%
60 (since 1963)	50.7%
70 (since 1953)	47.6%
76 (since 1947)	46.4%

Even with the 2018 wooden spoon (which occurred before the constitution change and governance restructure), our win rate over the past five years is better than for the rest (cumulatively) of our history. But five years is a small sample in the scheme of things, so I am more hopeful than confident. We have had similar strong periods throughout our history, notably 1975-1987 (65% win rate), which obviously didn't last. There was also 1997-2001 (66%), which was much briefer (and therefore less relevant). Our current four-and-a-third (2019-2023) year period (since constitution change) sees us winning 61%, even with our ordinary start this year. It might be a flash in the pan but it might also signal a real change in our strength as a club. Finding out will be very exciting, but second guessing individual results, signings/losses or media reports won't provide anything more than a narrative. Much more data is required to draw any insight about the club's decision-making.

Sample size too big.

 

[hineyrulz]

Don’t pretend you’d heard of Mataele before this years trials.

And are you saying Mataele is a quality produced junior then?

I first heard of him last season when he came back from injury. I have no idea if he’s a quality junior because he’s stuck behind a park footy player like Mummamoasia.

 

[hindy111]

But Surely it doesn’t take 10 years?? And if we do starting pumping quality juniors out do we have the right coach and staff to develop and nurture them into first graders??

Bea would much rather to sign a guy like Davey than bring a guy like Matale through. It already looks like his game is stagnating being dumped back to the bench in reserves. Same as plodders like Murchie and Mummamoasia.

Gould beefed up the Dogs juniors in 16 weeks. They won the HM and now have some of the best kids in the comp.

We may of neglected our juniors. But I recall when Dylan and Reed come thru 5-6yrs ago now BA commenting how our juniors pathways had been neglected but now we will start to see some juniors coming thru again as they've repaired them.
In 2014 there was plenty of talk about how they are fixing them and will take 5yrs so it made sense.

The question is what has happened since?