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Scomo saving me

wibble

Bench
Messages
4,661
Our bills would be double with nuclear, fact.
Coal is 50 per cent more expensive than renewable energy, fact.
Sports rorts went through scummos office, fact.
Current govt wants to use tax payers money ($11mill)to fix a business owned coal generated power plant, fact.

And that is not even counting the costs of climate change. If we added in external costs, it is not even close. This current summer of bushfires alone is estimated to cost our nation $100 billion.

https://theconversation.com/with-co...-australias-costliest-natural-disaster-129433

Even if those costs are overblown by a factor of 10, imagine these costs every few years for decades, maybe forever. Add the costs of drought, the floods we have in between, coal is a crazy expensive fuel source.
 
Messages
4,499
I wish I could make up my own set of facts like you
imagine if the world had have reacted everytime the bed wetters lost their shyte over eco apocolyptic scientific predictions.
Blue steam human annihilation, Ice age, acid rain, ozone , world wide famine drought, snowless planet, landless planet, global warming, climate change.
Seen it all mate & it was & still is, all bullshit!
 

Quigs

Immortal
Messages
34,841
imagine if the world had have reacted everytime the bed wetters lost their shyte over eco apocolyptic scientific predictions.
Blue steam human annihilation, Ice age, acid rain, ozone , world wide famine drought, snowless planet, landless planet, global warming, climate change.
Seen it all mate & it was & still is, all bullshit!
f**kishima Reactor is safe and will be up and running withing two weeks wasn't it.

f**kishima is one of the safest Reactors in the whole wide world wasn't it?
 

wibble

Bench
Messages
4,661
imagine if the world had have reacted everytime the bed wetters lost their shyte over eco apocolyptic scientific predictions.
Blue steam human annihilation, Ice age, acid rain, ozone , world wide famine drought, snowless planet, landless planet, global warming, climate change.
Seen it all mate & it was & still is, all bullshit!


Yeah, just as well us bed wetters didn't do anything about the ozone layer....

And thank f**ck famine and drought no longer bother humanity....
 
Messages
4,499
f**kishima Reactor is safe and will be up and running withing two weeks wasn't it.

f**kishima is one of the safest Reactors in the whole wide world wasn't it?
correct. hit by 32 earthquakes & 7 tsunamis whilst mounted on a fault line. Net total amount of fatalities? ZERO. That 11 less than fatalities installing windmills in just a 12 month period.
 

Quigs

Immortal
Messages
34,841
correct. hit by 32 earthquakes & 7 tsunamis whilst mounted on a fault line. Net total amount of fatalities? ZERO. That 11 less than fatalities installing windmills in just a 12 month period.

Crikey sometimes you just make me laugh and laugh and laugh.

Your facts and figures are so Eddie Haskell-ish.

Eddie-Haskell.jpg
 

taipan

Referee
Messages
22,500
Pointing out the corruption of other parties is absolutely no excuse for these rorts. And if people don't get worked up over rorts over the past, they can still feel that the current behaviour of the government is very poor.

But I don't think anyone has levelled corruption at one party and not another. I don't think anyone is impressed with Obeid, for example. But the law caught up with him. Even though they changed their leadership and tried to oust the old school corrupt politicians, that shockingly corrupt state Labor government got rightly whacked at the next election.

Ros Kelly was sacked (albeit also under protest from Keating) and Labor were punished in her electorate by voters disgusted with her. There was no evidence that the Prime Minister was as intimately involved as in this current rort. But Keating was shameful for defending her, and she deserved to be sacked. It is an embarrassment for Keating's legacy that he had to be held to account by the Democrat led senate. But I don't think many Labor voters would disagree that it was shameful.

Now the government is setting up funds that don't even have any criteria, just members asking for funds for their electorates. They're not even trying to hide pork barrelling anymore.

The treasurer, prime minister, deputy prime minister, and various ministers all spoke endlessly about "eligibility". Not only was this not true, but it is a bullshit excuse anyway. It shows they have absolutely no sense of doing the right thing by the Australian people.

I agree with you though. It is power that is corrupting. And it probably corrupts most who get it. I also agree open ness and transparency in government, as well as independent branches and watchdogs, are absolutely necessary for government to be democratic. This current government has a terrible record in terms of transparency.

As you say, why should they be transparent? They want to win elections, keep their cushy jobs. If you assume they are not interested in doing the right thing merely because it is the right thing to do, which seems clear with those defending these disgusting rorts, there is absolutely no incentive for them to be open, to do the right thing, or to have good watch dogs. Unless we give them that incentive.

It should not be partisan at all. Ros Kelly lost her safe labor seat (though they should have suffered more at the next election for cheating, but GST became the issue). Voters have plenty of options, they don't have to keep voting for crooks, just because they that's who their grandparents voted for.

If politicians cheat democracy, they have to pay at election time, or we become a non democracy with elections, like China and Russia. But partisan politics helps keep corrupt politicians in power. Even if they are on "your" side, you have to get rid of rotten politicians. Give some other party that has similar views to the one you vote for a go. Or try independents.

But it won't happen, and we get the democracy we deserve, because we are unwilling to care about our precious democratic freedoms more than our finger pointing at parties that we don't like.

I've already stated ,by firstly requesting the Govt be open and transparent as to what happened with the procedure.If they relied on Sports Australia as being some sort of final arbiter, they got it wrong.I'm not offering excuses for not going by the rules.

All I'm doing is in addition I'm citing over the decades corruption in varying forms has occurred within various Oz Govts. To sit back and assume nah it's always the Libs doing the dirts.is utter crap.I've been around long enough to know the lie of the land.Finger pointing by opposition at times looks hollow IMO.
Morrrison and Co took a hammering over it, as did Kelly & co, and so they should .Morrrison also took a hammering over a badly advised Hawaii holiday ATT.And the press are still going on about it, whilst we are facing a coronavirus.Sheesh.
Morrison at least acted swiftly with Govt medical officer to get on board, the issue acknowledged by( nearly fell over )two journos in the Insiders this morning.

I do believe most Parliamentarians intend to do the right thing when they enter Parliament.I have voted at times based on either the quality of the local candidate or the quality of the Party in toto.Not following what my parents or grand parents did like ,like many on both sides still follow the tradition..MY father-in-law was a deep seated trade unionist, and would never say a negative against the ALP.And he used to keep preaching to me about the ALP at times at the flippin football.He hated Menzies with a passion.I tried to steer clear of politics with him.

I'm all for corrupt politicians being flicked or asked to resign, or the people to decide in their electorate.To knowingly corrupt no argument.The question is the word "Knowlingly".Hence at least the beauty of democracy ,not the hide what is going on mentality of what is going on in China now.

Mate I have seen incompetence in Govt either bordering on corruption or outright incompetence ,and since 2000s,yet in some cases people remain within the ranks..
The thing I agree with voters, the discerning ones, have options. Independents,all well and good, they tend to follow the elected Govt at times.And I have seen some hopeless ones, like the former member of Cowper.Please leave out Shooters party,Greens, Hansen,and one issue Independents.

Politicians are elected by their local populace, and should try to represent and do the best for that electorate.If they don't they don't last.If they exceed their remit ,they face the consequences.
 
Last edited:

wibble

Bench
Messages
4,661
I've already stated ,by firstly requesting the Govt be open and transparent as to what happened with the procedure.If they relied on Sports Australia as being some sort of final arbiter, they got it wrong.I'm not offering excuses for not going by the rules.

All I'm doing is in addition I'm citing over the decades corruption in varying forms has occurred within various Oz Govts. To sit back and assume nah it's always the Libs doing the dirts.is utter crap.I've been around long enough to know the lie of the land.Finger pointing by opposition at times looks hollow IMO.
Morrrison and Co took a hammering over it, as did Kelly & co, and so they should .Morrrison also took a hammering over a badly advised Hawaii holiday ATT.And the press are still going on about it, whilst we are facing a coronavirus.Sheesh.
Morrison at least acted swiftly with Govt medical officer to get on board, the issue acknowledged by( nearly fell over )two journos in the Insiders this morning.

I do believe most Parliamentarians intend to do the right thing when they enter Parliament.I have voted at times based on either the quality of the local candidate or the quality of the Party in toto.Not following what my parents or grand parents did like ,like many on both sides still follow the tradition..MY father-in-law was a deep seated trade unionist, and would never say a negative against the ALP.And he used to keep preaching to me about the ALP at times at the flippin football.He hated Menzies with a passion.I tried to steer clear of politics with him.

I'm all for corrupt politicians being flicked or asked to resign, or the people to decide in their electorate.To knowingly corrupt no argument.The question is the word "Knowlingly".Hence at least the beauty of democracy ,not the hide what is going on mentality of what is going on in China now.

Mate I have seen incompetence in Govt either bordering on corruption or outright incompetence ,and since 2000s,yet in some cases people remain within the ranks..
The thing I agree with voters, the discerning ones, have options. Independents,all well and good, they tend to follow the elected Govt at times.And I have seen some hopeless ones, like the former member of Cowper.Please leave out Shooters party,Greens, Hansen,and one issue Independents.

Politicians are elected by their local populace, and should try to represent and do the best for that electorate.If they don't they don't last.If they exceed their remit ,they face the consequences.

Why leave out Greens, Shooters Fishers et al, and One Nation?

I only read the platforms of independents in my electorate, and they often say easy motherhood statements (as do all parties), but I've never seen one that is one issue. Maybe people in your electorate need to ask around and encourage some more prominent, decent and intelligent people to put their names forward.

I'm starting to think it is odd that politicians represent electorates. We are "represented" at local, state and federal level. I know each government has different areas they deal with, but it starts to feel like overkill.

And does anyone feel that prominent ministers, especially Prime Ministers (not picking on any one here) really represent their electorate? They must surely spend most their time concerned with bigger issues.

I don't know if there is a solution, or if one is needed, but in some ways I think it would make sense to vote along some policy or demographic alignment, rather than electorates, at least at some level of politics (probably federal).
 

Quicksilver

Bench
Messages
4,361
Why leave out Greens, Shooters Fishers et al, and One Nation?

I only read the platforms of independents in my electorate, and they often say easy motherhood statements (as do all parties), but I've never seen one that is one issue. Maybe people in your electorate need to ask around and encourage some more prominent, decent and intelligent people to put their names forward.

I'm starting to think it is odd that politicians represent electorates. We are "represented" at local, state and federal level. I know each government has different areas they deal with, but it starts to feel like overkill.

And does anyone feel that prominent ministers, especially Prime Ministers (not picking on any one here) really represent their electorate? They must surely spend most their time concerned with bigger issues.

I don't know if there is a solution, or if one is needed, but in some ways I think it would make sense to vote along some policy or demographic alignment, rather than electorates, at least at some level of politics (probably federal).

That's interesting.

A senate elected along age grouping lines (rather than a set number for each state) would produce some interesting results.

I feel a house of review is necessary, but I don't know of a democracy that has really nailed it.
 

wibble

Bench
Messages
4,661
That's interesting.

A senate elected along age grouping lines (rather than a set number for each state) would produce some interesting results.

I feel a house of review is necessary, but I don't know of a democracy that has really nailed it.

Just spitballing. I haven't given it any serious thought.

I agree that we need a house of review, and it does seem an odd one that we have at the moment. It supposedly is to stop big states pushing around the little ones, and coming from one of the big states I might be biased, but I don't see that as much of a concern in the 21st century.

There might be age groups though that feel they are not represented or are pushed around by bigger demographic groups.

Or maybe the house of review should be proportional representation, so the two party system doesn't prevail in that arena.

I also think it strange that ministers are "just" representatives of their geographic areas (or the ones they are "flown" into), and may have little or no experience in their portfolios. Maybe if we could nominate portfolio areas we want to vote for, rather than get stuck in a geographic area that doesn't mean a lot to us (at least on a federal level, services are nearly all state based), we would vote for knowledgeable politicians in direct areas.

This was highlighted to me when a so called minister for education that we had in the past, got up in parliament and lamented that the Maths syllabus around the country had estimation in it as an important skill. This minister said that "near enough wasn't good enough" in their day, and said this was the kind of PC nonsense infecting education that was lowering standards.

Such blatant and inaccurate identity politics being espoused by an "education" minister was disheartening. Estimation is of course one of the most vital numeracy skills that can be taught, and is one of the ways that children can work out if their answers are correct. No educator in the country would see it as unimportant, or as a "dumbing down" of the syllabus. But the education minister didn't even know the basics of an area of their portfolio (and this didn't stop them speaking confidently and totally incorrectly on the matter).

If educators voted for education ministers and shadow ministers, and health workers voted for health ministers, small business owners voted for ministers in charge of the business portfolio etc, it might fix some of these issues. I don't know how it would work with forming governments, I haven't really considered every angle.

But voting for my electorate at federal level means next to nothing for me (my town is politically opposite to my electorate, so never gets "represented" compared to the electorate), whereas some portfolio areas are quite dear to my heart.
 

taipan

Referee
Messages
22,500
Why leave out Greens, Shooters Fishers et al, and One Nation?

I only read the platforms of independents in my electorate, and they often say easy motherhood statements (as do all parties), but I've never seen one that is one issue. Maybe people in your electorate need to ask around and encourage some more prominent, decent and intelligent people to put their names forward.

I'm starting to think it is odd that politicians represent electorates. We are "represented" at local, state and federal level. I know each government has different areas they deal with, but it starts to feel like overkill.

And does anyone feel that prominent ministers, especially Prime Ministers (not picking on any one here) really represent their electorate? They must surely spend most their time concerned with bigger issues.

I don't know if there is a solution, or if one is needed, but in some ways I think it would make sense to vote along some policy or demographic alignment, rather than electorates, at least at some level of politics (probably federal).

Because I consider Greens whilst obviously well meaning with some of their policies, are not in my view economic realists.
And when Bob Brown all for wind power, stated he was dead against it in an area because it detracts form
the landscape left me cold.All these wind vanes detract Bob.'I've seen em in Europe. Can't have it both ways.
Sorry Pauline I could never vote for her.I was brought up to treat everyone as equals ,regardlessof their status /nationality in life.
Aren't Animal rights or Justice party one issue parties.
Plus it doesn't take much to realise ,most independents have SFA of making it.

My view ,we are overgoverned. We should have State and Federal, with the states responsible directly to local areas.Local councils have a high recored by comparison with corruption.

Feds: responsible for Defence,National Security, Immigration,National Transportation,Aboriginal Affairs.Industry
States:Health,Education,Sport,Roads.Infrastructure

And one who takes on the job of PM or even a Ministerial role, has his /her duties to his local electorate affected .However that's why you have additional people under your employ to handle the extra workload..

Let's be honest what % of the population is concerned about one main issue? Their hip pocket.Young families, the elderly.Tie that in with security of employment.

I will say this ,not that Sco Mo has helped himself, but there are many within the media who have not accepted the unexpected election result and it can be seen throughout many media outlets,9 months later.The Guardian is a classic example.
We now have a serious world health issue,IMO that's where all efforts should be concentrated..Yet some journos continue with their personal agendas..Boring as.
 

roboshark

Coach
Messages
17,902
How has this thread gotten to so many pages. Surely politics etc is not this exciting or thread worthy
 

wibble

Bench
Messages
4,661
Because I consider Greens whilst obviously well meaning with some of their policies, are not in my view economic realists.
And when Bob Brown all for wind power, stated he was dead against it in an area because it detracts form
the landscape left me cold.All these wind vanes detract Bob.'I've seen em in Europe. Can't have it both ways.
Sorry Pauline I could never vote for her.I was brought up to treat everyone as equals ,regardlessof their status /nationality in life.
Aren't Animal rights or Justice party one issue parties.
Plus it doesn't take much to realise ,most independents have SFA of making it.

My view ,we are overgoverned. We should have State and Federal, with the states responsible directly to local areas.Local councils have a high recored by comparison with corruption.

Feds: responsible for Defence,National Security, Immigration,National Transportation,Aboriginal Affairs.Industry
States:Health,Education,Sport,Roads.Infrastructure

And one who takes on the job of PM or even a Ministerial role, has his /her duties to his local electorate affected .However that's why you have additional people under your employ to handle the extra workload..

Let's be honest what % of the population is concerned about one main issue? Their hip pocket.Young families, the elderly.Tie that in with security of employment.

I will say this ,not that Sco Mo has helped himself, but there are many within the media who have not accepted the unexpected election result and it can be seen throughout many media outlets,9 months later.The Guardian is a classic example.
We now have a serious world health issue,IMO that's where all efforts should be concentrated..Yet some journos continue with their personal agendas..Boring as.

Well I agree with much of this.

Animal rights party is very narrow focused. I even agree with their policies on animal rights (though accept that they are not even palatable to moderates, so are a non starter) but would not vote for them as parties need to have comprehensive policies. But there are plenty of options still. The "big two" parties (counting coalition as one party) will survive if they get smacked around a bit when they are dishonest.

The biggest issue with "Greens", including me, is that sometimes principles over ride practical policy, and I really think the Greens need to engage moderates a lot more in their policy making.

Most people are concerned with their hip pocket. We have to be, as it is survival. That is why, for example, I don't blame people near the proposed Ardani mine voting for a party they think will give them a future of employment, even if it is bad for the planet. What Labor and Greens need to do in the area is offer a progressive vision where these people have a better economic future that aligns with a better planet (which I believe is easy to do), and then people don't have to choose between looking after their family and being guilted into a vote for protecting others.

But also, most people when they don't have to think about their survival, are decent, and want a good future for everyone. Even you conservatives! It is the job of progressives to properly outline that brighter future, so thinking shifts, and over time, humanity progresses. This is how we get things like marriage equality (agitated for the last few decades by progressives, but brought in by a conservative government (moderate really, under Turnbull), once most people's thinking had progressed).

Independents tend to make it in areas where the incumbent has totally f**ked up and people don't want parties that are politically opposite to them to win. I just think there should be more of this when we have blatantly dirty pollies. That way the major parties will learn to treat democracy with some respect.

I agree we are over governed. Local government really doesn't seem to serve a purpose, except perhaps accepting bribes from developers. Development would be better monitored by a bureaucracy with courts to act as independent arbiters in major disputes. And I really like what my local government has done around town, I just don't see why the state couldn't do it.

ScoMo has not helped himself. He ran a disciplined election campaign. He was clever in internal politics to get the top job AND distance himself from internal machinations. And because of that, and a terrible campaign from an almost unelectable Shorten, he won a tough election.

Since then, he has done a poor job. His reaction to the bushfires has been terrible. The sports rorts affair is a disgrace, and he has not responded well to it. His government have tried their best to hide and scurry from the limelight, making transparency a mockery. And the National party keep blowing up in their faces.

It is true that the election result is done and dusted. And the election went to the better performed party. But that doesn't mean ScoMo should not be criticised for his work since then, which has been quite poor. Hopefully we will have brighter things to talk about in the near future if we come out of the coronavirus pandemic relatively unscathed, and if we do, credit to ScoMo for the strong stances he has taken.
 

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