SJ.

[SpaceMonkey]

Yeah f**k Scurrah. I actually had respect for the guy at first (pretty much the first thing he had to do as CEO was come clean about Watson rorting the salary cap and cleaning up that mess) but it seemed like he was way more interested in selling jerseys than running a football club that actually succeeded on field.

 

[Beavers Headgear]

Extremely bored at work, here is some light reading from 12 years ago on Cleary lol, some good niggle in there

Ivan Cleary's Warriors formula needs time article

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/opinion/4953118/Ivan-Clearys-Warriors-formula-needs-time Agree/ disagree? Tony Smith - NFI club :lol:

forums.leagueunlimited.com

 

[Rich102]

Extremely bored at work, here is some light reading from 12 years ago on Cleary lol, some good niggle in there

Ivan Cleary's Warriors formula needs time article

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/opinion/4953118/Ivan-Clearys-Warriors-formula-needs-time Agree/ disagree? Tony Smith - NFI club :lol:

forums.leagueunlimited.com

WOW. So much still applies this season. Maybe last season was an aberration.
Could the extra travel be a factor?

 

[Matua]

I think you can split them on consistency alone, the difference between Stacey’s best and worst was a lot smaller than Shaun’s. The 2001/2/3 was a consistently strong period for the Warriors, been more of 1 hit then a few misses during Shaun’s time

Agree with this post. The more I've thought about this the more I've decided that it isn't even close.

I never wondered what sort of game Jones would have when he ran out on to the field, even in the dark days of the late 90s when the team were essentially coach-less with iffy cattle. But with Johnson, for much of his career, I'd wonder what version would turn up, lots of times it was the superstar, but lots of times it wasn't.

 

[JJ]

I think this is pretty much spot on - Johnson had much more talent, so underachieved in that context, whereas Jones probably did the best he could.

Just considering NRL, it's Jones for me. Just on Johnson, relative to his 'peers' he's not in the top group - Thurston, Cronk, DCE, and I guess you can count Cleary, as their careers crossover at a quick consideration are the best - then the likes of Morgan, Reynolds, even Pearce probably end with better club cvs

 

[Penrose Warrior]

Extremely bored at work, here is some light reading from 12 years ago on Cleary lol, some good niggle in there

Ivan Cleary's Warriors formula needs time article

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/opinion/4953118/Ivan-Clearys-Warriors-formula-needs-time Agree/ disagree? Tony Smith - NFI club :lol:

forums.leagueunlimited.com

Haha! f**k me, I was around in 2011. I had no idea.

 

[Big Marn]

Agree with this post. The more I've thought about this the more I've decided that it isn't even close.

I never wondered what sort of game Jones would have when he ran out on to the field, even in the dark days of the late 90s when the team were essentially coach-less with iffy cattle. But with Johnson, for much of his career, I'd wonder what version would turn up, lots of times it was the superstar, but lots of times it wasn't.

yep. the number of posts over the years where we were complaining about SJ just shovelling it on all the time and not taking on the line. I havent forgotten that. Its Jones for me and its not even close.

 

[Meth]

I'm with @Matua - pretty compelling point. Johnson would have a better highlight reel. Jones was far more reliable.

It's funny though. I really enjoyed Stacey as our halfback. There was something kind of iconic about him- 'the little general'. But when you start to think about him with the term 'GOAT' in the mix (even if only in terms of all time Warriors, positionally), it's really hard to remember him exhibiting all of the attributes of a great half. I can remember him running. He had a short kicking game. He had some clutch moments.

Can somebody with a longer memory than me comment on his general kicking game? Passing? Game management? Defence?

 

[Big Marn]

Extremely bored at work, here is some light reading from 12 years ago on Cleary lol, some good niggle in there

Ivan Cleary's Warriors formula needs time article

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/opinion/4953118/Ivan-Clearys-Warriors-formula-needs-time Agree/ disagree? Tony Smith - NFI club :lol:

forums.leagueunlimited.com

NRL: We should've kept outgoing Cleary - Hart - NZ Herald

Latest breaking news articles, photos, video, blogs, reviews, analysis, opinion and reader comment from New Zealand and around the World - NZ Herald

www.nzherald.co.nz

Speaking of Hart, how much of a factor was he back then? Was he the sounding board for Ivan that Webby doesnt have currently?

 

[Beavers Headgear]

NRL: We should've kept outgoing Cleary - Hart - NZ Herald

Latest breaking news articles, photos, video, blogs, reviews, analysis, opinion and reader comment from New Zealand and around the World - NZ Herald

www.nzherald.co.nz

Speaking of Hart, how much of a factor was he back then? Was he the sounding board for Ivan that Webby doesnt have currently?

He was a huge factor, think he was on the Dom Harvey podcast at one point and talked on his time at the Warriors and how highly he rated Cleary, he disagreed with the decision to punt him so much he resigned immediately

 

[SpaceMonkey]

I'm with @Matua - pretty compelling point. Johnson would have a better highlight reel. Jones was far more reliable.

It's funny though. I really enjoyed Stacey as our halfback. There was something kind of iconic about him- 'the little general'. But when you start to think about him with the term 'GOAT' in the mix (even if only in terms of all time Warriors, positionally), it's really hard to remember him exhibiting all of the attributes of a great half. I can remember him running. He had a short kicking game. He had some clutch moments.

Can somebody with a longer memory than me comment on his general kicking game? Passing? Game management? Defence?

His general kicking game was decent but not super exceptional, ditto his goalkicking. His short kicking game was brilliant.
He had great speed off the mark and knew how to pick a moment to run.
His game management was good though I don’t think he was able to absolutely control a game the way Johnson could when he was on.
His defence was a weak point. He was a small guy who was prone to jersey grabbing and we hid him on the wing where he occcasionally got murdered by big wingers like Adam McDougal.

 

[Matua]

I don’t think he was able to absolutely control a game the way Johnson could when he was on.

I'm 100% the opposite to you here again, I've never felt SJ was a good controlling half aside from last year, in fact I feel like that was one of the criticisms most frequently levelled against him.

Interesting discussion though, I've been genuinely surprised that there are Johnson over Jones fans out there. Either way our best half is SJ.

 

[SpaceMonkey]

I'm 100% the opposite to you here again, I've never felt SJ was a good controlling half aside from last year, in fact I feel like that was one of the criticisms most frequently levelled against him.

Interesting discussion though, I've been genuinely surprised that there are Johnson over Jones fans out there. Either way our best half is SJ.

I’m mainly thinking of last year TBH with SJ. I don’t think Jones long kicking game ever reached peak Johnson level.

 

[JJ]

I’m mainly thinking of last year TBH with SJ. I don’t think Jones long kicking game ever reached peak Johnson level.

Think you're right there... there's no question in my mind that this should be an easy call, it should be Johnson because with his talent and at his best, he's better at pretty much everything- but it's not, in the week in week out grind of NRL it's Jones imo although as was noted earlier he was a pretty terrible defender.

 

[Matua]

I’m mainly thinking of last year TBH with SJ. I don’t think Jones long kicking game ever reached peak Johnson level.

Johnson's long kicking game is definitely better than Jones'.

 

[SpaceMonkey]

Think you're right there... there's no question in my mind that this should be an easy call, it should be Johnson because with his talent and at his best, he's better at pretty much everything- but it's not, in the week in week out grind of NRL it's Jones imo although as was noted earlier he was a pretty terrible defender.

I also think though that there as a degree of perception around Jones where if the Warriors lost it was rarely if ever his fault, whereas Johnson always seemed to be the first guy the finger was pointed at in a loss. Fair? Maybe, maybe not.

 

[Manu Vatuvei]

Extremely bored at work, here is some light reading from 12 years ago on Cleary lol, some good niggle in there

Ivan Cleary's Warriors formula needs time article

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/opinion/4953118/Ivan-Clearys-Warriors-formula-needs-time Agree/ disagree? Tony Smith - NFI club :lol:

forums.leagueunlimited.com

lol this thread should be required reading for anyone here who says ditching Cleary was a crazy call.

Obviously history makes it look crazy in retrospect, but during the Cleary years no-one thought those times were as good as we make them out to be now.

 

[Izz]

Obviously history makes it look crazy in retrospect, but during the Cleary years no-one thought those times were as good as we make them out to be now.

I'm pretty sure I did

 

[Izz]

Haha! f**k me, I was around in 2011. I had no idea.

Man, you were hating on Uncle Ives!

 

[SpaceMonkey]

There was definitely a fairly widely held belief up until late 2011 that Ivan was a good but not great coach, who could get us to finals but lacked X factor. We’d had 4/5 seasons of playing consistently good and competitive but generally not spectacular footy at that point.