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Star Wars The Last Jedi *** SPOILERS ***

Mr Spock!

Referee
Messages
22,502
" But Leia surviving in space was clearly bullshit..."

Yes it was. But also knowing the real life tragedy it would have been better for her to have not come back at all.

Is it me but she didn't look well through the movie. She seemed crushed and lacking in spirit.
 

Danish

Referee
Messages
32,018
Is someone seriously comparing TLJ to TESB.

At least TESB had characters which were likeable and the Empire were far more formidable than The First Order. When Poe was jerking off the First Order officer at the start I thought I was watching Space Balls. It was positively cringeworthy. Unlike the original trilogy, I see nothing sinister in the First Order. They're almost like comic sidekicks.


I didn't like that "please hold" crap either. It was almost a 4th wall break as I can't imagine call centres and general office jobs exist in the star wars universe.

And someone should tell the director the ' I told you to put more than 5 bucks worth in' is in a parody.


which is what this turned out to be.

Are you just referring to the fact that they were running out of fuel? They are certainly fast and loose with how space travel works in the Star Wars universe but their ships do require fuel. We see X Wings and the Falcon being fueled up at various times throughout the original trilogy. Makes sense that all ships will be out of fuel eventually.

That was just stretching out the purposeless subplots of giving Finn something to do and getting to know the Chinese lady (I don't want to) while saving the animals (this isn't star trek) and the non-mutiny.

What made you not want to get to know Rose?

The subplot introduced DJ to the movie, as well as showed us a bit of an insight into how the First Order manages to rule i.e. it has created a ruling class who live fantastic lives under the First Order, allowing the horrendous oppression and and destruction of other planets to remain an abstract concept. Kinda like how plenty of plutocracies have worked in world history, really.

The "free the animals" stuff, I honestly don't see the issue. They used them to help in their escape as opposed to directly seeking them out, and the abuse of the animals is what is shown to imply the seedy underbelly of the glossy resort planet that Finn initially found awesome.

Poe receiving basically no punishment for the mutiny is odd, to be sure. Althuogh given the complete loss of almost all members of the Resistance force, I can't really see how they'd have much of a choice other than to keep him on. The entire resistance can fit on the Falcon FFS.


And how did Phasma get to be like some hotshit officer. She's positively useless. "Ooooohhh but I have lovely shiny armour". That character needs to grow some balls.

Eh, Storm Troopers have been infamously useless cannon fodder for 8 straight movies prior to TLJ. I see no reason why the most inept army in movie history would have some awesome fighter as an officer.

Most likely she got to her rank as officer by callously following orders (like executing a bunch of villagers without a 2nd thought) as opposed to showing any great skill or heroics in battle.
 

Danish

Referee
Messages
32,018
" But Leia surviving in space was clearly bullshit..."

Yes it was. But also knowing the real life tragedy it would have been better for her to have not come back at all.

Is it me but she didn't look well through the movie. She seemed crushed and lacking in spirit.


I'd be interested to know if they had planned on killing her off, but then changed things around after she died IRL. There seemed to be multiple moments where Leia being killed or sacrificing herself would have made sense, but they didn't take them.

Personally I'd have left her dead in space. Poe's mutiny would have then had to play out to its end, instead of Leia stepping in to nip it in the bud straight away. Instead now they'll have to handle her exit in the opening crawl of Ep IX, which it not a fitting end for the Leia character.

As for her performance, she has never been a good actress IMO and her age and mental state certainly showed. The final movie will be better for not having her in it TBH, although being such an iconic character of film it sucks that she won't get a nice send off.
 

hineyrulz

Post Whore
Messages
153,757
Watched it again last night and disliked it even more.


Just don’t like the way some characters went out while instead we had a Leia Poppins moment. Watched it with a friend who is not a massive Star Wars fan and his comment was” what’s with all the shitty cheesy humour”

Puppet Yoda and the hyperspace Kamakize hyperspace killing from strong woman purple hair lady were the highlights plus everything with Luke and Rey.
 
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edabomb

First Grade
Messages
7,204
I'd be interested to know if they had planned on killing her off, but then changed things around after she died IRL. There seemed to be multiple moments where Leia being killed or sacrificing herself would have made sense, but they didn't take them.

Personally I'd have left her dead in space. Poe's mutiny would have then had to play out to its end, instead of Leia stepping in to nip it in the bud straight away. Instead now they'll have to handle her exit in the opening crawl of Ep IX, which it not a fitting end for the Leia character.

As for her performance, she has never been a good actress IMO and her age and mental state certainly showed. The final movie will be better for not having her in it TBH, although being such an iconic character of film it sucks that she won't get a nice send off.

Why would they have filmed all that stuff with her recovering if they planned to kill her off? That makes no sense given it was confirmed there would be no CGI trickery.
 

Generalzod

Immortal
Messages
33,929
Is a men’s rights activist sabotaging ‘The Last Jedi’s’ review scores — or do people just hate it?


It’s the enduring mystery of “Star Wars: The Last Jedi”: Do viewers actually hate it, or are its terrible online
audience ratings — 54 percent and falling on Rotten Tomatoes — the work of hidden (sorry) forces?

There will be no more Jedi puns in this article. But there will be spoilers, and a journey to a tiny Facebook page whose leader rose to fame by claiming, somewhat incredibly, that he deployed a bot army to ruin the film’s scores in the name of male rights.

With very few exceptions, critics liked “The Last Jedi.”

It earned three out of four stars from our own Ann Hornaday for its moments of humor and gravity — even if it did go on a bit long. More than 9 in 10 critics approved of the film by Rotten Tomatoes’ count. And Metacritic’s average score was just a few points lower.

But so much for professional opinions.

Metacritic’s humble users gave the film a failing 4.8 out of 10. (“A repugnant film that shows absolutely zero respect for its legacy,” reads a typical nil-score review on the site.) And the popcorn class on Rotten Tomatoes splatted the movie with a 54 percent fresh rating, which The Washington Post noted made for the site’s widest audience-critic gulf in the history of “Star Wars” films.

Deepening the mystery, The Post’s Michael Cavna wrote, real-life viewers polled at movie theaters overwhelmingly liked the film. And its ticket sales have been outstanding.

So some suspect that something strange is afoot with the online scores.

[How ‘The Last Jedi’ became the most divisive Star Wars movie yet]

Web voting systems are notoriously easy to manipulate, whether through mass trolling (see the British government’s popularly named submarine, Boaty McBoatface); with computer script; or simply by repeatedly logging on to a site with different usernames.

On Sunday — two days after “The Last Jedi” opened in theaters, and as its Rotten Tomatoes score plummeted into the 50s — the owner of an obscure anti-Disney forum claimed credit for the purported sabotage.

“Yes it was me that caused this,” wrote the anonymous moderator of the not-succinctly-named “Down With Disney’s Treatment of Franchises and its Fanboys” Facebook page, which has barely 300 subscribers.

He claimed to have created a network of Facebook bots that were able to bypass those annoying Captcha puzzles that Rotten Tomatoes and other sites make you fill out to prove you’re human. And, according to him, these fake users were driving the movie’s score down with bad reviews.

The moderator offered no proof for this, and his stated motives were — at first — too obscure to make national news.

He was attacking the movie’s scores, he wrote, to get back at Disney for changes to the “Star Wars” canon (as well as various superhero franchises). It sounded like an ultra-nerdy version of the plot to Stephen King’s “Misery,” and not many paid attention.

But in subsequent posts, the nameless Facebook man added gender politics to his list of “Star Wars” grievances — and suddenly reporters came calling.

“Male leads who aren’t [gay] or colored or both WILL ALWAYS be better than female leads,” he wrote. “They should just stay in the kitchen instead of playing with Lightsabers,” he added.

“I’m sick and tired of men being portrayed as idiots,” he told HuffPost. “There was a time we ruled society and I want to see that again.”

[How ‘The Last Jedi’s’ fierce women characters perfectly reflect the zeitgeist in 2017]

[Last chance: major spoilers ahead.]

As The Post has noted, “The Last Jedi” features the strongest lineup of female leaders in the franchise’s history — with a wise Leia in command of the Resistance, whose brightest stars are all women, too. The male protagonists, meanwhile, tend to be very flawed. Luke Skywalker spends much of the film stewing in his emotions and regrets, and dies at the end.

That has earned the film some enemies, especially in far-right-wing forums that still revere Hollywood’s old stereotype of the white, male hero, as Polygon reported.

So outlets began to seriously investigate the “Down With Disney” proprietor’s claims.

Eventually, Rotten Tomatoes had to, as well.

Deadline even asked a Disney president to weigh in on the purported sabotage, eliciting a paragraph of PR-speak in which the executive said nothing about bot armies and praised the film because it “got people talking, puzzling over its mysteries.”

Quartz discovered that many of the lowest reviews on Rotten Tomatoes came from new accounts, though that alone did not prove that they were bots. A HuffPost reporter interviewed the aggrieved Facebook moderator, who insisted that the details of his scheme were “classified,” and then quizzed a Rotten Tomatoes vice president about the man’s claims.

On Tuesday, Rotten Tomatoes announced that the site had thoroughly investigated “The Last Jedi” review scores and concluded that its defenses had not been penetrated (this is not a Death Star pun).

“We have several teams of security, network, and social database experts who constantly monitor reviews and ratings to ensure that they are genuine,” a spokeswoman for the site told Forbes. “I can’t explain why there’s such a disparity. How we take this is that people are super passionate about this movie.”

This is undoubtedly true — regardless of whether those passions lead to bot attacks.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...o-people-just-hate-it/?utm_term=.edcd1bdf652a
 

BuderusIsaBeast

Juniors
Messages
554
I’m more of a casual Star Wars fan so I probably didn’t have the connection or expectations as many on here.

But I absolutely loved it, easily my favourite Star Wars movie. Maybe the movie appealed more to the casual fan then the die hard fan.

I really liked the story, I’m a big fan of Kylo Ren and how he isn’t your typical un beatable destroy everything bad guy u see in most movies. I like that he is torn and his dialogue with Rey I thought was great. I thought the fight in the throne room was great and I think it’s set up well for the next movie.

It was definetley not perfect. The Leia scene was pretty ridiculous and it was a little long and the casino scene was probably unnecessary.

I think some of the criticism I’ve seen here is incredibly hypocritical when compared with other movies especially the original films. For example not knowing snoke back story when until the prequels no one knew anything about the emperor. While the leia thing was dumb the amount of out of this world stuff that happens constantly in Star Wars is conventionally ignored or celebrated.

I get the feeling some people had talked this movie up to be something it was never going to reach or focusing far to much on the negatives or looking for thing wrong with the movie then actually enjoying it
 

bileduct

Coach
Messages
17,832
Is a men’s rights activist sabotaging ‘The Last Jedi’s’ review scores — or do people just hate it?


It’s the enduring mystery of “Star Wars: The Last Jedi”: Do viewers actually hate it, or are its terrible online
audience ratings — 54 percent and falling on Rotten Tomatoes — the work of hidden (sorry) forces?

There will be no more Jedi puns in this article. But there will be spoilers, and a journey to a tiny Facebook page whose leader rose to fame by claiming, somewhat incredibly, that he deployed a bot army to ruin the film’s scores in the name of male rights.

With very few exceptions, critics liked “The Last Jedi.”

It earned three out of four stars from our own Ann Hornaday for its moments of humor and gravity — even if it did go on a bit long. More than 9 in 10 critics approved of the film by Rotten Tomatoes’ count. And Metacritic’s average score was just a few points lower.

But so much for professional opinions.

Metacritic’s humble users gave the film a failing 4.8 out of 10. (“A repugnant film that shows absolutely zero respect for its legacy,” reads a typical nil-score review on the site.) And the popcorn class on Rotten Tomatoes splatted the movie with a 54 percent fresh rating, which The Washington Post noted made for the site’s widest audience-critic gulf in the history of “Star Wars” films.

Deepening the mystery, The Post’s Michael Cavna wrote, real-life viewers polled at movie theaters overwhelmingly liked the film. And its ticket sales have been outstanding.

So some suspect that something strange is afoot with the online scores.

[How ‘The Last Jedi’ became the most divisive Star Wars movie yet]

Web voting systems are notoriously easy to manipulate, whether through mass trolling (see the British government’s popularly named submarine, Boaty McBoatface); with computer script; or simply by repeatedly logging on to a site with different usernames.

On Sunday — two days after “The Last Jedi” opened in theaters, and as its Rotten Tomatoes score plummeted into the 50s — the owner of an obscure anti-Disney forum claimed credit for the purported sabotage.

“Yes it was me that caused this,” wrote the anonymous moderator of the not-succinctly-named “Down With Disney’s Treatment of Franchises and its Fanboys” Facebook page, which has barely 300 subscribers.

He claimed to have created a network of Facebook bots that were able to bypass those annoying Captcha puzzles that Rotten Tomatoes and other sites make you fill out to prove you’re human. And, according to him, these fake users were driving the movie’s score down with bad reviews.

The moderator offered no proof for this, and his stated motives were — at first — too obscure to make national news.

He was attacking the movie’s scores, he wrote, to get back at Disney for changes to the “Star Wars” canon (as well as various superhero franchises). It sounded like an ultra-nerdy version of the plot to Stephen King’s “Misery,” and not many paid attention.

But in subsequent posts, the nameless Facebook man added gender politics to his list of “Star Wars” grievances — and suddenly reporters came calling.

“Male leads who aren’t [gay] or colored or both WILL ALWAYS be better than female leads,” he wrote. “They should just stay in the kitchen instead of playing with Lightsabers,” he added.

“I’m sick and tired of men being portrayed as idiots,” he told HuffPost. “There was a time we ruled society and I want to see that again.”

[How ‘The Last Jedi’s’ fierce women characters perfectly reflect the zeitgeist in 2017]

[Last chance: major spoilers ahead.]

As The Post has noted, “The Last Jedi” features the strongest lineup of female leaders in the franchise’s history — with a wise Leia in command of the Resistance, whose brightest stars are all women, too. The male protagonists, meanwhile, tend to be very flawed. Luke Skywalker spends much of the film stewing in his emotions and regrets, and dies at the end.

That has earned the film some enemies, especially in far-right-wing forums that still revere Hollywood’s old stereotype of the white, male hero, as Polygon reported.

So outlets began to seriously investigate the “Down With Disney” proprietor’s claims.

Eventually, Rotten Tomatoes had to, as well.

Deadline even asked a Disney president to weigh in on the purported sabotage, eliciting a paragraph of PR-speak in which the executive said nothing about bot armies and praised the film because it “got people talking, puzzling over its mysteries.”

Quartz discovered that many of the lowest reviews on Rotten Tomatoes came from new accounts, though that alone did not prove that they were bots. A HuffPost reporter interviewed the aggrieved Facebook moderator, who insisted that the details of his scheme were “classified,” and then quizzed a Rotten Tomatoes vice president about the man’s claims.

On Tuesday, Rotten Tomatoes announced that the site had thoroughly investigated “The Last Jedi” review scores and concluded that its defenses had not been penetrated (this is not a Death Star pun).

“We have several teams of security, network, and social database experts who constantly monitor reviews and ratings to ensure that they are genuine,” a spokeswoman for the site told Forbes. “I can’t explain why there’s such a disparity. How we take this is that people are super passionate about this movie.”

This is undoubtedly true — regardless of whether those passions lead to bot attacks.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...o-people-just-hate-it/?utm_term=.edcd1bdf652a
Hahaha, geez...

Huffington Post and the other lefty shites are blaming the "alt-right".

All you have to do is look at Box Office Mojo to see that daily takings have plummeted when compared to The Force Awakens. The Last Jedi is $85 million down on where The Force Awakens was at this point.

Looks like the people who usually go to see these things 10 times have decided that once was more than enough.
 

bileduct

Coach
Messages
17,832
I didn't like that "please hold" crap either. It was almost a 4th wall break as I can't imagine call centres and general office jobs exist in the star wars universe.



Are you just referring to the fact that they were running out of fuel? They are certainly fast and loose with how space travel works in the Star Wars universe but their ships do require fuel. We see X Wings and the Falcon being fueled up at various times throughout the original trilogy. Makes sense that all ships will be out of fuel eventually.



What made you not want to get to know Rose?

The subplot introduced DJ to the movie, as well as showed us a bit of an insight into how the First Order manages to rule i.e. it has created a ruling class who live fantastic lives under the First Order, allowing the horrendous oppression and and destruction of other planets to remain an abstract concept. Kinda like how plenty of plutocracies have worked in world history, really.

The "free the animals" stuff, I honestly don't see the issue. They used them to help in their escape as opposed to directly seeking them out, and the abuse of the animals is what is shown to imply the seedy underbelly of the glossy resort planet that Finn initially found awesome.

Poe receiving basically no punishment for the mutiny is odd, to be sure. Althuogh given the complete loss of almost all members of the Resistance force, I can't really see how they'd have much of a choice other than to keep him on. The entire resistance can fit on the Falcon FFS.




Eh, Storm Troopers have been infamously useless cannon fodder for 8 straight movies prior to TLJ. I see no reason why the most inept army in movie history would have some awesome fighter as an officer.

Most likely she got to her rank as officer by callously following orders (like executing a bunch of villagers without a 2nd thought) as opposed to showing any great skill or heroics in battle.
I'd be interested to know if they had planned on killing her off, but then changed things around after she died IRL. There seemed to be multiple moments where Leia being killed or sacrificing herself would have made sense, but they didn't take them.

Personally I'd have left her dead in space. Poe's mutiny would have then had to play out to its end, instead of Leia stepping in to nip it in the bud straight away. Instead now they'll have to handle her exit in the opening crawl of Ep IX, which it not a fitting end for the Leia character.

As for her performance, she has never been a good actress IMO and her age and mental state certainly showed. The final movie will be better for not having her in it TBH, although being such an iconic character of film it sucks that she won't get a nice send off.
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Generalzod

Immortal
Messages
33,929
Hahaha, geez...

Huffington Post and the other lefty shites are blaming the "alt-right".

All you have to do is look at Box Office Mojo to see that daily takings have plummeted when compared to The Force Awakens. The Last Jedi is $85 million down on where The Force Awakens was at this point.

Looks like the people who usually go to see these things 10 times have decided that once was more than enough.
I've noticed that comparison....I was going to post it.
 

saint.nick

Coach
Messages
19,401
They destroyed the senate and republic in TFA with starkiller, and took over rule of the galaxy in between TFA ending and TLJ beginning. It is explained in the opening crawl.



There was gravity acting on both those characters. There was none acting on Leia.

But if you want to talk logic, how jedis apply any of their powers never makes any sense. Why doesn't Vader simply force choke Luke at the very beginning of all of their confrontations? His plan in Empire was to incapacitate Luke and freeze him in carbonite, yet he for some reason forgets this skill he seems to reserve only for his own officers.



a 3 foot crippled elf of unknown lineage is perfectly believable as the most powerful jedi in the galaxy.

Rey is a total f**king Mary Sue though for having abilities, and she damned well better be a Skywalker or Kenobi, else its just plain unbelievable.



So kinda like how we found out that Rey has the strongest natural power of the force ever seen, and is able to tap into the dark side very easily?



Not much has ever been known about the force even after 40 some years of movies (outside of Lucas's garbage "its bacteria" f**king garbage). In fact TLJ does easily the best job of explaining how the force works of any of the movies to date during Luke and Rey's scenes

- Yeah but the First Order have been in reign for like, what, 2 seconds? Still doesn't compare to the empire.

- There's gravity acting on many force-related things people do! f**k even if it was by the book, it was cheesy.

- Because he has a very clearly different dynamic with Luke compared to all of his other opponents.

- I'm sorry but your yoda comment in relation to your 'it's cos she's a woman' comment is just nonsense. It is perfectly believable that a midget creature is the most powerful Jedi when he's extremely force sensitive and has been training the jedi way for over 500 years.

- Yeah, she is a Mary Sue, just randomly beats Kylo in a duel before she's properly swung lightsaber before. How does that even compare to Luke in ROTJ?
 

beave

Coach
Messages
15,679
I felt like a complete f**king idiot during that salt scene. When old mate walks past the trenches with the binos and leaves the red foot prints I was thinking ‘shit, he’s bleeding pretty bad’

When the guy in the trench leans forward and rubs the red patch and licks it and goes ‘salt’ im thinking ‘yeah no shit f**kface, blood tastes salty ya weirdo’.... like who licks someone else blood patch?

Took me a good 60seconds to realise it was actually a salt planet. Idiot.
 
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beave

Coach
Messages
15,679
The bombs dropping out like they were subjected to earth like gravity and then a mere 10mins later Leia is floating around in space after her ships bridge got brassed up, I was shaking my head a little at that shit. Mind you, the originals are not without physics faults so we should probably let that slide.

I thought Luke was a whinging old mole and I’m glad he’s gone ta tas. Rey is still as hot as f**k, Kylo looks even more like the offspring of Lady Gaga and Marilyn Manson though his performance was much better than TFA. Those Porg things can f**k right off. The casino part was weird, I really think they could have done something a little different with that. Having the 2 of them and the ballbag robot just ‘ducking off to a vegas-esque planet for a bit’ to look for some random fruit with a red badge on the advice of old love just seemed pretty f**king stupid.

And unless I missed it, how the f**k did Rey get back on the Millenium Falcon? Im pretty sure I didnt fall asleep but she just appeared again after the ‘Red Divorce’ in the gunnery bubble of the MF??

I’d give it 7/10. I still think Rogue One is the best SW movie since ROTJ, they just seemed to nail it IMO. Some of the humour in TLJ is purely f**king lame. The fake call centre shit?? Stop it.

The kid at the end force moving the mop into his hand was cool though.... is he the last Jedi????......

Did anyone think the audio sync for Roses’s dialogue was out a bit during her opening scene in the escape pod area? Might have just been the cinema I was in but it seemed like it was 1/2-1/4 second behind the screen play.
 
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Game_Breaker

Coach
Messages
15,019
What about lukes theory that the Jedi must die for the the sith to die

The force will always find a way to balance itself, and if the Jedi are strong the sith will not go away

Isn’t that the reason why Anakin was born ?
 

adamkungl

Immortal
Messages
42,971
The idea that the Jedi have to die is an interesting one.
If you think about it, they're an insular, restrictive, powerful religion with damaging backwards views who only see things in black and white.
As Luke mentioned, they were responsible for the creation of many Sith.
Their restrictive rules cause students to crack under the strain, pushing them to the dark.
Their refusal to teach any students too old likely has the same effect, or best case, is a waste of potential.

The Jedi Order should be torn down and started again. It's not an end to the Jedi in the sense that there will be no more force users, but is the end of the Order. The new Jedi will likely thrive without the strict control of the Order, and will allow for many more shades of grey than just light vs dark. Maybe we'll see "Jedi" that are good but can use powers traditionally seen as 'dark side'? Rey whipping out some force lightning in the finale of Episode IX?
Force users will be found in all walks of life rather than elevating themselves above the rest as some sort of religion-police-military hybrid, as they were seen in the prequel era.

For fantasy nerds, Wheel of Time covers some similar ideas.
 
Messages
14,731
The bombs dropping out like they were subjected to earth like gravity and then a mere 10mins later Leia is floating around in space after her ships bridge got brassed up, I was shaking my head a little at that shit. Mind you, the originals are not without physics faults so we should probably let that slide.

I thought Luke was a whinging old mole and I’m glad he’s gone ta tas. Rey is still as hot as f**k, Kylo looks even more like the offspring of Lady Gaga and Marilyn Manson though his performance was much better than TFA. Those Porg things can f**k right off. The casino part was weird, I really think they could have done something a little different with that. Having the 2 of them and the ballbag robot just ‘ducking off to a vegas-esque planet for a bit’ to look for some random fruit with a red badge on the advice of old love just seemed pretty f**king stupid.

And unless I missed it, how the f**k did Rey get back on the Millenium Falcon? Im pretty sure I didnt fall asleep but she just appeared again after the ‘Red Divorce’ in the gunnery bubble of the MF??

I’d give it 7/10. I still think Rogue One is the best SW movie since ROTJ, they just seemed to nail it IMO. Some of the humour in TLJ is purely f**king lame. The fake call centre shit?? Stop it.

The kid at the end force moving the mop into his hand was cool though.... is he the last Jedi????......

Did anyone think the audio sync for Roses’s dialogue was out a bit during her opening scene in the escape pod area? Might have just been the cinema I was in but it seemed like it was 1/2-1/4 second behind the screen play.

I'm a big fan of this film and yet it's not without its faults.

I think for some fans - who break down every trailer and teaser, swallow every fan theory, seek out on set spoilers, analyse every poster and dissect every pre release toy or Topps bubblegum card - the fantasy vs eventual reality is a let down.

Others just don't like and that's cool too.

But everyone I know and not via forums or social media have really enjoyed TLJ. Again, some faults, minor quibbles but no loathing.

I also loved the Porgs flmao.
 

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