Superthread XLIII - honouring madunit

[BDR]

They are CLEARLY doing it to wind you up! Repeating the same facts again isn't going to change a thing.

If you plan to get into an argument every time you feel you are right and another person is wrong you will spend your whole life going in circles with dipshits.

 

[Eelementary]

Flapper, unless he is an ignorant moron, surely knows poker is a skill based game with an element of luck involved.

Starting a small business has an element of luck involved. Investing in a law degree has an element of luck involved. Eating a fast food burger has an element of luck involved. And none of those things are gambling.

Neither is Poker.

Other games in a casino are luck based. They have no way of being profitable long term for the player. They are gambling.

Poker is not.

Well, while I agree with you that poker is a game where you must display skill as well as possess good luck (no matter how skilled you are at it, if you don't get the right cards, you aren't going to win [unless your bluff is very good]), let us assume a scenario whereby you are playing a hand of Texas Hold 'Em and your cards suck (say, a two of clubs and eight of diamonds). You desperately need the pot to stay alive, so you raise - and all but two of your opponents fold. Great - you've sold your bluff! All you need now is for the cards to fall your way, and...Ace of Hearts, King of Spades, Jack of Clubs????OH NO!!!

Now, your brain goes into overdrive - do I check? Do I raise? How much do I raise? And this reaction - this thought process - leads to the actions which define gambling: at this point, no matter which course of action you take (aside from folding, and seeing as you've already raised once before, folding wouldn't be very productive), you are taking a gamble that your choice pays off. Short of telekinetic powers, there is no way to know with 100% certainty that your bluff will work - ergo, you're taking a gamble.

Unless one can find the outcome with 100% certainty before it is "decided", then it is gambling. Playing a few hands of poker at a table - a real table, rather than an electronic one - offers you a greater degree of control and freedom over how you play, but considering that the outcome is unknown, it is still gambling.

 

[Eelementary]

They are CLEARLY doing it to wind you up! Repeating the same facts again isn't going to change a thing.

If you plan to get into an argument every time you feel you are right and another person is wrong you will spend your whole life going in circles with dipshits.

To be fair, though, that is why the Internet was created...

 

[Non Terminator]

Hit quads on my 3rd hand, noice

Choice.
Tonight is the Bounty tournament, so $10 for each K.O.
Hopefully it leads to a few bugger-ups, will be great fun.

 

[Skinner]

Can someone please shut thing up.....thx

 

[Non Terminator]

Wow, BM is still around? He still gets fed?

 

[Flapper]

Something can still be gambling if it's based in skill. Poker is one of those games.

 

[BunniesMan]

Well, while I agree with you that poker is a game where you must display skill as well as possess good luck (no matter how skilled you are at it, if you don't get the right cards, you aren't going to win [unless your bluff is very good]), let us assume a scenario whereby you are playing a hand of Texas Hold 'Em and your cards suck (say, a two of clubs and eight of diamonds). You desperately need the pot to stay alive, so you raise - and all but two of your opponents fold. Great - you've sold your bluff! All you need now is for the cards to fall your way, and...Ace of Hearts, King of Spades, Jack of Clubs????OH NO!!!

Now, your brain goes into overdrive - do I check? Do I raise? How much do I raise? And this reaction - this thought process - leads to the actions which define gambling: at this point, no matter which course of action you take (aside from folding, and seeing as you've already raised once before, folding wouldn't be very productive), you are taking a gamble that your choice pays off. Short of telekinetic powers, there is no way to know with 100% certainty that your bluff will work - ergo, you're taking a gamble.

Unless one can find the outcome with 100% certainty before it is "decided", then it is gambling. Playing a few hands of poker at a table - a real table, rather than an electronic one - offers you a greater degree of control and freedom over how you play, but considering that the outcome is unknown, it is still gambling.

A federal judge disagrees with you.

Yes luck is involved. But skill plays a greater role than luck.

A really good player will get in a hand with someone similar to what you describe, he'll have a bad hand, and he'll remember that 4 hours ago, 2 hours ago and 25 minutes ago he noticed this opponent leaned back in his chair when he missed the flop. He sees that again and he feels reasonably confident to go all in.

Good players consistently profit and make a living from poker because they have the mathematical skills to make the right decisions, they have the acting skills to throw off their opponents and they have the memory and detective skills to notice every important detail that has happened over a number of hours.

Those factors outweigh luck as a factor. That is what makes it not gambling.

Now can pure dumb luck affect a game? Of course it can. But luck affects almost everything in life. Do you consider going to university as gambling? Do you consider walking into KFC as gambling.

Those things and almost every activity in life has some level of luck attached to it. That doesn't mean it is gambling. The same goes for poker.

To sum it up very concisely, the element of skill involved outweighs the element of luck involved. Anyone that takes the time to learn the game can profit from it. It is not gambling.

 

[Hallatia]

To be fair, though, that is why the Internet was created...

I have always been told that the internet was made for porn

 

[BunniesMan]

Something can still be gambling if it's based in skill. Poker is one of those games.

Gambling is legally defined as something that is based in luck. Not something that has any level of luck involved what so ever.

If your definition of gambling is that loose basically everything is gambling.

 

[BunniesMan]

Porn and cats.

 

[Hallatia]

A federal judge disagrees with you.

so? Since when were federal judges authorities on the way the universe works?

 

[Didgi]

I have always been told that the internet was made for porn

I'm sure rule 34 can be applied here.

 

[Flapper]

I play cash tournament games, the way I see it is I am gambling the entry fee to win the prizes on offer.

 

[Eelementary]

A federal judge disagrees with you.

Yes luck is involved. But skill plays a greater role than luck.

A really good player will get in a hand with someone similar to what you describe, he'll have a bad hand, and he'll remember that 4 hours ago, 2 hours ago and 25 minutes ago he noticed this opponent leaned back in his chair when he missed the flop. He sees that again and he feels reasonably confident to go all in.

Good players consistently profit and make a living from poker because they have the mathematical skills to make the right decisions, they have the acting skills to throw off their opponents and they have the memory and detective skills to notice every important detail that has happened over a number of hours.

Those factors outweigh luck as a factor. That is what makes it not gambling.

Now can pure dumb luck affect a game? Of course it can. But luck affects almost everything in life. Do you consider going to university as gambling? Do you consider walking into KFC as gambling.

Those things and almost every activity in life has some level of luck attached to it. That doesn't mean it is gambling. The same goes for poker.

To sum it up very concisely, the element of skill involved outweighs the element of luck involved. Anyone that takes the time to learn the game can profit from it. It is not gambling.

I view as any decision to make an action - any - in which the outcome is not 100% certain is a gamble. You're not 100% sure to graduate from university - hell, you're not even 100% sure to make it through a whole year (many people drop out).

And no matter how good these poker players are at reading people's faces and actions and using their mathematical skills (and they are very good), they still gamble - they decide to go all in on a terrible hand, and it's a gamble, because there is no way they can say with 100% certainty that they will win the hand. Yes, in all likelihood they are most probably going to win the hand if they're as good as we say - but the fact there is even a little doubt makes it a gamble.

As for the judge...Well, it's interesting, but judges are notoriously poor when it comes to both objectivity and subjectivity of opinion. I believe one judge was quoted recently as stating that deliberate arson, when there are hundreds of fires ranging, was the worst crime that kids could commit, and that those kids, if found guilty, would face harsh penalties...I think deliberately lighting fires when there are other fires around is a hideously reckless and selfish act, and deserves to be dealt with swiftly and harshly. But to say it's the worst thing they could do? Hmm...Methinks there are certain other crimes that may rank higher on that scale, n'est-ce pas?

 

[Eelementary]

I have always been told that the internet was made for porn

That, and riling people up on forums, yes.

 

[Non Terminator]

I play cash tournament games, the way I see it is I am gambling the entry fee to win the prizes on offer.

Actual cash games, putting money up for grabs.

 

[adamkungl]

What an utterly boring topic of conversation. Surely there's some cricket on or something...

 

[BunniesMan]

I play cash tournament games, the way I see it is I am gambling the entry fee to win the prizes on offer.

Depends on what level you're at. If you're a social player then yes it could be seen as gambling the entry fee. But if you're an advanced player who consistently profits long term, it's more like an investment.

 

[AlwaysGreen]

Gambling is legally defined as something that is based in luck. Not something that has any level of luck involved what so ever.

If your definition of gambling is that loose basically everything is gambling.

I'll put $10 on it that you are the biggest spastic to ever set foot out of Coffs and that is no small achievement.
It you are wagering money or material goods on event be it cricket, frog eating contests or poker you are gambling. Gambling is about wagering not what pursuit you are playing.

Do yourself and the world a favour and invest in a Dr Kevorkian kit.