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Sydney relocations

georgesnmith

Juniors
Messages
1,781
Because the current setup is not sustainable in the long term, we're spending too much money on clubs for too little return.

To fix that we need to remove some of the pressure on the clubs that are struggleing and the best way to do that is to remove their competition.

Sydney has 9 RL clubs, 2 AFL clubs, 2 A-league clubs, 1 Super Rugby club and heaps and heaps of other forms of entertainment, the smaller RL clubs can't handle all that competition so the best move is for us to remove some of that competition so the other clubs have the best opportunity to strive.



My numbers were rough estimates.

An active fan is someone that actively engages with the club, i.e. they're members, buy the clubs products, watch as many games as possible, go to games, esc.

Where a casual fan is some that identifies as a fan of the club, but doesn't actively support them.



Wow you've got that all knotted up.

So because there has always been a majority of Sydney clubs there always should be, even if it would be more profitable to have less clubs in Sydney and more in other cities.

That doesn't make any sense at all.



Well actually clubs like the Broncos, Storm, Cowboys and yes even the Raiders add more to the TV deal then your average Sydney club as they add access to different TV markets then just Sydney.

The TV deal would be worth jack shit if the broadcasters couldn't get exposure for advertisers during a popular program in the Brisbane, regional Queensland, Melbourne, southern NSW and ACT and Auckland markets.

If we were selling the rights to a comp with teams only based in Sydney our rights would be worth less then the A-leagues, our program would still be more popular, but the lack of direct exposure to markets outside of Sydney would kill our TV rights value.



How can there be an average for the Raiders this season when we've only had one home game?

Which BTW was against the Titans whom bring a whole three away supporters to Canberra games.



Firstly the NRL is not the NSWRL anymore, not matter how much you wish it was.

Secondly sure WE built the most successful RL competition in the world, that was almost killed in under five years, by a rushed and badly planned rival!



The heart of the game is not in Sydney and it hasn't been since the early eighties.

If the rest of the competition wanted to break away it's Sydney that would be in trouble.

Imagine if a new competition came along and took the Broncos, Storm, Knights, Raiders, Cowboys, Titans, Warriors and two Sydney clubs with them, maybe the Rabbitohs who behind all the smoke and mirrors are struggling to make ends meat and the always ambitious Bulldogs. That's 9 clubs, maybe more if things went down differently.

Then add to that Brisbane 2, Perth, Wellington and the second coming of the North Sydney Bears (giving us one team each in the north, west and south east of Sydney) and you've got a league with very strong foundations and most of the superstar players already on contract, maybe more with some sneaky brown paper bags here and there.

That'd leave what's left of the NRL with 7 clubs, maybe they rush a Hunter Mariners style club in to fill the comp out to 8, and nearly all are based in Sydney.

The only things that the NRL would have that we'd want is SOO, the Kangaroos, a handful of players and a few clubs.

Tell me again who'd be "stuffed".

remind me how the super league competition fared with rupert murdoch losing $500 million on it?

the ARL comeptetion in 1995 had more expansion teams than we do now, barring melbourne which is the only new addition

the NRL is a sydney centric competition

aways has been always will be

without the TV viewers of the sydney market you would all be watching AFL
 

georgesnmith

Juniors
Messages
1,781
heres a history lesson :

1908 NSWRL an QRL starts competitions

by 1910 NWRL had become the dominant code in sydney, and was never headed.

QRL developed its pace and for 100 years was no match for sydney.

In early 1980s the NSWRL began expansion with canberra, illawarra, brisbane and newcastle added to the sydney competition

SL was an abberation, news ltd has been kicked out of the game

the game is now controlled by the ARL again.

all the expansion that occurred was because of the success of the sydney clubs.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
67,093
and no one is saying the game does not need a STRONG sydney base with a large number of teams. What the NRL does not need is nine teams with a 1/4 of them struggling, skint, not drawing in fans and holding back the game in new more lucrative markets.

Imagine if McDonalds had 5 restaurants in one suburb, 2 were really struggling due to over saturation and three were doing quite well. At the same time there were two other suburbs with no food outlets crying out for one. Do you think they would keep propping up all the outlets in that suburb for fear of a Burger king being opened?

It is just very poor business and the NRL needs to grow some balls and do what is right for the game for the next 50 years ahead.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
67,093
do you want someone to explain to you the concept of average?

Most teams have only played one or two home games, how can you be hanging your argument on an avg for this season??

Take a look at a full season, last season for example. it will give you a much more accurate picture across a whole season of home games. How did the Sydney crowds fare last year? I'll tell you again:

SIX of the bottom seven were Sydney teams. Ignore the reality all you like but it won't change it.
 

newman

First Grade
Messages
7,207
No Sydney club should be folded, merged, relocated or anything. End of.

It is a nonsense that the game is not growing, or is somehow in trouble.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
67,093
No Sydney club should be folded, merged, relocated or anything. End of.

It is a nonsense that the game is not growing, or is somehow in trouble.

Can you tell Grant please, he seems to think the game can't expand until all current clubs are doing well.

"It's a big deal trying to build clubs that are sustainable and we haven't got that in the NRL at the moment.
 

georgesnmith

Juniors
Messages
1,781
Most teams have only played one or two home games, how can you be hanging your argument on an avg for this season??

Take a look at a full season, last season for example. it will give you a much more accurate picture across a whole season of home games. How did the Sydney crowds fare last year? I'll tell you again:

SIX of the bottom seven were Sydney teams. Ignore the reality all you like but it won't change it.

the averages are like that pretty much all the time.

sydney clubs in general are at the NRL average

as a group sydney clubs dont drag crowds down

and ill bet if someone worked out the averages across all sydney clubs its actually increasing

i can see every sydney club having big crowd growth from current levels
 

georgesnmith

Juniors
Messages
1,781
Can you tell Grant please, he seems to think the game can't expand until all current clubs are doing well.

"It's a big deal trying to build clubs that are sustainable and we haven't got that in the NRL at the moment.

grand is from qld.

when he sees a strong Qld bid emerging then theyll have to add another with it

perth just need to make sure their business plan is fine and its theirs

CC are behind them
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
7,919
remind me how the super league competition fared with rupert murdoch losing $500 million on it?

What does Superleague have to do with anything?

the ARL comeptetion in 1995 had more expansion teams than we do now, barring melbourne which is the only new addition

And yet most of them were killed to save a handful of arse backwards Sydney clubs that still after sacrificing so many other clubs to save themselves cannot get their shit together.

Maybe just maybe after so many years of mediocrity and not meeting our potential it's time to try a different method.

the NRL is a sydney centric competition

aways has been always will be

without the TV viewers of the sydney market you would all be watching AFL

But the fact that the NRL's Sydney centric is hurting it now and it doesn't need to be Sydney centric!

And anyway being a Sydney centric national competition isn't something to be proud of.

heres a history lesson :

1908 NSWRL an QRL starts competitions

by 1910 NWRL had become the dominant code in sydney, and was never headed.

QRL developed its pace and for 100 years was no match for sydney.

In early 1980s the NSWRL began expansion with canberra, illawarra, brisbane and newcastle added to the sydney competition

SL was an abberation, news ltd has been kicked out of the game

the game is now controlled by the ARL again.

all the expansion that occurred was because of the success of the sydney clubs.

No all the expansion occurred because there was money to be made from new clubs in new areas.

It's got f##K all to do with the previous clubs and everything to do with the popularity of RL.

and no one is saying the game does not need a STRONG sydney base with a large number of teams. What the NRL does not need is nine teams with a 1/4 of them struggling, skint, not drawing in fans and holding back the game in new more lucrative markets.

Imagine if McDonalds had 5 restaurants in one suburb, 2 were really struggling due to over saturation and three were doing quite well. At the same time there were two other suburbs with no food outlets crying out for one. Do you think they would keep propping up all the outlets in that suburb for fear of a Burger king being opened?

It is just very poor business and the NRL needs to grow some balls and do what is right for the game for the next 50 years ahead.

Exactly!

BTW nice analogy.
 

georgesnmith

Juniors
Messages
1,781
think grant is being cautious having lent out money to my club lol and also wests tigers

they want to ensure stability with current clubs before expanding which is perfectly fine

for a club in sydney to go under with the grant 1 million above the salary cap they would have to be run by geniuss

the way the ARLC funds clubs now they (sydney) should all go close to break even without a leagues club's assisance
 

oikee

Juniors
Messages
1,973
Why not expand and keep the Sydney clubs as well? That way you are not losing any fans at all.

And where do you get the number of active fans from? What makes some one an active fan over an inactive fan?

It's not rocket science, look at soccer, around the world, it did not become huge by staying in Manchester and protecting its little piece of turf.

The longer the NRL waits to expand, the harder it will be to grow.
Codes around the world have left league in their wake, rugby, soccer and now cricket.

Sydney now struggles in Sydney to even compete with sponsors.

I cant say much more except ruggy league is being left for dead, even by soccer. Why, they have a Australian map to expand, league has retreated over the last 20 years, with not a shot fired. Backfired might be a good term to use for ruggy league.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
67,093
the averages are like that pretty much all the time. Yes my point exactly, the least supported clubs are in Sydney and that is becuase they are cannabilising the population between them all

sydney clubs in general are at the NRL average no they are not, not even close for most of them

as a group sydney clubs dont drag crowds down yes SOME of them do every year

and ill bet if someone worked out the averages across all sydney clubs its actually increasing probably by a hundred or so every year but is that growth that impressive compared to say melbourne who have gone from a sub 10k avg to over 15k avg in ten years?

i can see every sydney club having big crowd growth from current levels
Can you, why and how?
 

georgesnmith

Juniors
Messages
1,781
What does Superleague have to do with anything?



And yet most of them were killed to save a handful of arse backwards Sydney clubs that still after sacrificing so many other clubs to save themselves cannot get their shit together.

Maybe just maybe after so many years of mediocrity and not meeting our potential it's time to try a different method.



But the fact that the NRL's Sydney centric is hurting it now and it doesn't need to be Sydney centric!

And anyway being a Sydney centric national competition isn't something to be proud of.



No all the expansion occurred because there was money to be made from new clubs in new areas.

It's got f##K all to do with the previous clubs and everything to do with the popularity of RL.



Exactly!

BTW nice analogy.

NRL just got a 1.2 billion TV deal without teams in adelaide in perth.

how did it do that?
 

georgesnmith

Juniors
Messages
1,781
Can you, why and how?

ive posted the crowd stats

if you dont like them buy a box of tissues.

playing more games out of homebush is going to see a big increase in crowds

all the biggest crowds this year in sydney have been at anz.

turning more games into marque events

so sorry all this good news doesnt fit in with your myopic views
 

georgesnmith

Juniors
Messages
1,781
It's not rocket science, look at soccer, around the world, it did not become huge by staying in Manchester and protecting its little piece of turf.

The longer the NRL waits to expand, the harder it will be to grow.
Codes around the world have left league in their wake, rugby, soccer and now cricket.

Sydney now struggles in Sydney to even compete with sponsors.

I cant say much more except ruggy league is being left for dead, even by soccer. Why, they have a Australian map to expand, league has retreated over the last 20 years, with not a shot fired. Backfired might be a good term to use for ruggy league.

soccer started in sheffield

:crazy:
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
67,093
think grant is being cautious having lent out money to my club lol and also wests tigers

they want to ensure stability with current clubs before expanding which is perfectly fine

for a club in sydney to go under with the grant 1 million above the salary cap they would have to be run by geniuss

the way the ARLC funds clubs now they (sydney) should all go close to break even without a leagues club's assisance

Gosh you really don't know what is going on in your own back yard do you? I love your passion for all things sydney but seriously most clubs are barley scraping by despite a $1mill hand out and a grant increase of $2mill a year. Grant wants clubs on $19-20mill, 75% of Sydney clubs won't be close to that. Most Sydney clubs are still getting $1-3mill a year from leagues clubs and are still struggling. St's cronulla, Penrith, Manly, and they are the ones we know of in financial strife. The Balmain part of the Tigers isn't putting in and leading to Tigers needing NRL bail out. Some clubs have very limited corporate income and sposorship opportunities sat empty. There is a very long way to go for some clubs to be self sustaining, if we wait to expand until they are then i will be in the ground before Perth gets a team!
 

BuffaloRules

Coach
Messages
14,367
I guess the NRL are thinking do they need another club that will be indefinitely dependant on them?

Perth won't have leagues club putting in any money to cover a shortfall.

They will be looking for the NRL to do that.

As I asked on the other thread, should there be a time limit on this?

If they can put forward a plan to be entirely self sufficient in say ten years, them Im sure the NRL would gladly pay to support them for that time.

Can they get there in ten years though?

Gee, looking at Melbourne you would think its going to be tough.
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
7,919
NRL just got a 1.2 billion TV deal without teams in adelaide in perth.

how did it do that?

By having consistently high rating programs, some of the those are among the top rating tv events in Australia for an average year (SOO, grand final), by having a spread of teams that have a direct exposure to the majority of the Australian population, the broadcaster most interested in our rights (Nine) is desperate for any high rating TV shows and is struggling to compete with other broadcasters due to a string of low rating shows and most importantly we were willing to bend over and take it in the arse to get a billion dollars.

It was the perfect mix of desperation, Nine was desperate to keep RL on it's channel, we were desperate to make a billion dollars off our TV rights and were willing to give almost all control over to the Broadcaster to get it and Fox happy as long as they still got their live games.
 

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