Discussion in 'NRL Expansion' started by T-Boon, Dec 21, 2019.
1995 Perth avg 13,390 - Sharks 11,901
What happened to the crowds when the novelty wore off lol
Known briefly in the 1990s as the Sydney Bulldogs, as a result of the Super League war the club competed in that competition in 1997 before changing their name to the geographically indistinct Bulldogs and continuing to play every season of the re-unified NRL, winning their most recent premiership in 2004.
The Balmain Tigers (also known as the Sydney Tigers from 1995–96) are a rugby league club based in the inner-western Sydney suburb of Balmain.
In 1978, the mantra was replaced with the team's name, "Eastern Suburbs". This name was kept until 1994, when the club changed its team name to the "Sydney City Roosters" for the start of the 1995 season to appeal to the club's widening fan base. In 2000, the club shortened its name to the "Sydney Roosters. Although marketing names have changed, the Roosters are still registered with the National Rugby League competition as the Eastern Suburbs District Rugby League Football Club, the entity holding the NRL licence."
Geez what have their crowds been of late? Like 2019? Don't get many updates form the Wild West.
For the sharks you mean?pretty much went nowhere. 1999 they avg'd 13,974, 2019 they avg'd 12,224. 20 years on and no growth.
"By mid 1996 club support had dwindled to just over 6,000."
So in less than 12 months, the crowd halved.
Reds and Force failed. Stick to AFL.
Why are you talking about the Reds in a thread on the Sharks? You can deflect as much as you like but the stats are clear for all to see, no growth in 2 decades. This is why its not a bad idea for Cronulla to move from a small suburb area with limited fanbase to try and be more attractive. As per the topic
Because it shows what happens when you transplant a team into a non-rugby league heartland.
You think its going to be better but its not. Look at the Gold coast.
And lol at cherrypicking figures. What teams are consistently growing their crowds year on year?
Exactly. Removes the identity of a club. We tried to be known as The Sharks for a bit. Wish the roosters would go back to Easts.
I just look at the cricket with the Sydney Thunder vs the Sydney Sixers. I mean, who cares?
The Gold Coast is RL heartland lol. Moving a team that can only get 12k crowds to a bigger catchment may help, it may not, but as the saying goes keep doing the same thing and expect the same results.
Whose cherry picking? The thread is about sharks moving, I merely gave some crowd facts showing stagnation as to one of the reasons it might not be a bad idea.
as for clubs growing crowds:
Storm, from a consistent 9kish to a consistent 17-18k over the last 4 years.
Broncos from a consistent 21kish to a consistent 33k ish
Souths from around an avg of 10k 20 years ago to an avg around 17k over last few seasons
Didnt that game get 35,000 to it last month?
A bit overstated those figures there.
What about the non darling teams of the nrl that haven't been gifted financial leg ups
You asked what clubs had grown their crowd avg, I showed you the most obvious ones lol. Dont blame me if you dont like the fact I could show some
What they have in common is clubs that are not limited by a small geographic region. If you look at the ones that are like Sharks, Manly, Penrith etc crowds havent changed in 20 years. Warriors have largely improved after a big dip from their first 3 years and Newcastle has been traditionally one of the biggest drawing clubs (again large catchment area).
As for financial leg ups, they come in different paper bags, some of the small drawing teams have had plenty of financial leg ups from their LC's.
Don't think you can direct criticism about NRL clubs' crowds in so called "small "areas, when in a large city like Perth crowds dropped dramatically, when if they had maintained their crowd numbers they may not have been dropped from the competition.And then teh storm may well hav had to wait to get in.
Dragons and Dogs crowds have dropped , both large established clubs.
The Titans in a rl heartland with a up to date stadium still can't crack it for big crowds.when the Storm have had bad years, they are unlikely to retain their cried numbers.
The three clubs you mentioned ,outer Sydney ones, are eventually upgrading their facilities.The Storm were gifted their facilities .Crowds are hardly likely to grow with old facilities.
As long as a Steeden is kicked in this country there will be teams that have good years and bad years, crowds will be reflected accordingly.The Sharks have generally drawn better Foxtel ratings than a few other clubs.And the local derbies. Sharks v Dragons in the past have indicated crowd drawing ability.
hard to say given it was a tumultuous time for the game and most clubs saw massive drop offs as fans got sick of the politics and BS. They might have stayed below 10k or might have bounced back above the league avg to 13k. It’s really impossible to lay claim either way. Wasn’t helped by playing at the waca either which was a terrible ground for RL.
true I’m sure storm will drop when they go through their inevitable slump but hopefully not back to their sub 10k early days.
When are Cronulla, penrith and manly upgrading their stadiums? Not LC’s or centre of excellences but actual new stands with increased capacity, more undercover seating and better facilities?
Titans are a bit of an enigma (bit like the warriors). It’s hard to say if there just isn’t the interest in an nrl club on thenGC or if the fans are just sick of the club being run badly (bit like dragons fans who have had enough and stopped attending last year)
yes there will be crowd seasonal growth and reduction based on form and schedule, that’s why it’s good to look at an avg over a few years to get a better picture if there is a pattern of growth or stagnation, thats what I’ve done.
I don't think that the Sharks will be going anywhere anytime soon.
The club owns their own stadium. Did the club own the land next to the stadium (where the residential apartments are now) or was that council owned? Either way, when they return to Shark Park in 2022, they will then be there for a few more years at least.
And remember to the neighbours there - the Stadium was their first. So on game days, don't complain about the "noise" or "traffic" there! lol
Should Cronulla-Sutherland go back to just being "The Sharks"? Sure, why not. lol
St George and Newcastle could make up a Dungeons and Dragons team.
Centre of Excellence for a start is an adjoin to the Southern Stand and the stand ,which apart from the usual C of E machinery, will have more sponsors' boxes and seating for the fans.That is a starting point fro better facilities..
Extra seating and more sponsors boxes, brings in more revenue.
The new takeover of the Kareela Golf Club and its membership plus a refurbished Leagues club combined revenues, will at least put the club in a position to borrow for extra undercover seating, and be able to survive that debt.
The new Leagues club is supposed to be available for 2022 season.The retail development includes a hotel with accomodation.Don't know how many other NRL clubs are in a position to have a large retail, residential 800 units,hotel,restaurants,Leagues club all within the space of a few hundred metres.
I can't speak for the other clubs mentioned.
The NRL is fully aware of what is currently in progress.Old Leagues club currently being knocked down.
It's not much use ,with crowd averaging over a number of years, based on older facilities.When upgrading(for better facilities)
will in the short and long term future, provide up to date figures.The Eels is a classic example.
I'm also sure, once the ANZ has been made into a purpose built rectangular one,Souths and Dogs crowds will increase.ATM there is really SFA cover in a huge arena, where fans hate to visit ATM.
You see that's another issue, the Storm have a few bad years,and their crowds will dip, and more so their TV ratings . And privately owned clubs can be a worry if owners get itchy feet.
how many new seats? How long till you borrow for a new stand? All well and good saying crowds won’t grow in old facilities, I guess thats one of the reasons for suggestions of moving from old facilities with small catchment regions to new ones with broader reach?
If I knew the numbers I would spell it out. Facts are the state Govt has allocated by a grant $8m toward the C of E ,to be matched by the club itself.If you have additional seating and additional sponsors boxes you are creating a source of additional gate revenue.
Borrowing for any new stand can only occur once C of E is in place ,and the Leagues club is up and functioning ,in generating the revenue needed for any borrowings.Cart before horse syndrome apply here, nor guessing the time the club will borrow for a new stand.
It can be argued there is little use moving to bigger catchment areas ,if
@ they are not interested in watching on TV
b) attending in numbers that will continue when a club has bad years.
c)The Storm had almost immediate success and continued to be strong year after year, any new club in a so called large catchment non heartland areas cannot afford a number of sh*tty years.And Perth proved fickle as soon as SL reared it's ugly head.We are yet to see the effects of the Storm being on the rear end of the table for a few years in a beaut stadium in a non heartland area.And no local born player to my knowledge playing in the current NRL squad.
d) You should know the London Broncos history in a large catchment region, struggling in a soccer obsessed city.
Despite my comments above I am all for expansion including Perth, yet at the same time having to fend off comments that the Sharks etc ,should move aside for expansion teams, or move games from their outer Sydney bases to the city.
And you carry on as though the Sharks are somehow complacent and happy to continue to do nothing, when in fact they are doing something.Buying a new revenue producing asset in Kareela ,rebuilding the old Leagues club, having a hotel beside it and retail infrastructure, and 800 units within spitting distance ,and a C of E in train, all offer opportunities.And the club is not owned privately.
The NRL has stated there will be no relocations, let's get on with growing the game .not whiteanting its base, and aim for 20,000 to a larger catchment area.
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