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Sydney Sharks

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
7,960
There's surviving and then there's thriving! From last years financials it would seem there are plenty that are still struggling just to survive, even with the massive grant increase.

Nobody is disputing that, but it also doesn't change the fact that sports clubs in the NRL (and the AFL) don't have to be successful businesses anymore because they can do the bare minimum and survive on their grant money.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
70,111
Nobody is disputing that, but it also doesn't change the fact that sports clubs in the NRL (and the AFL) don't have to be successful businesses anymore because they can do the bare minimum and survive on their grant money.

Unless the NRL gets serious about a football cap I dont think we've seen the last of clubs teetering on the edge. eg If Sharks hadn't sold their land they would still be at serious risk given the multi million $ losses they made in 2018 and probably have made in 2019 even with the new grant and I suspect they arent orphans in this regard..
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
7,960
There's no probably about it. Brisbane will bring more , a lot more to the NRL than Perth for the next 10 year , at least. And Average view is what the advertisers want. So until that changes talking about unique viewers is irrelevant! - As well as being nonsensical.
There's no way that we can know for certain that Brisbane 2 will bring more viewers than Perth until we try it. One thing is for certain though, Perth will bring more new viewers than Brisbane, especially over the long term.

A unique viewer is an individual that can be confirmed to have watched content at least once. With average ratings (on Tv, it's different on the internet) you are just getting the average amount of people that were watching a program at any one time, but here's the thing about averages, because of technological constraints they are often guesstimates and you can't confirm how many of those people were unique viewers.

One of the main reasons that advertisers are investing way more money into advertising online is because they can get much better metrics on unique viewers, i.e. Youtube, Twitter, etc, can tell them that x amount of unique IP addresses saw their ad.

Mate, anyone who has any authority is a' numpy' according to you! He thought different to you so hes a numpy?????

He's not a numpty because he is a position of power, he's a numpty because he has literally outright stated that instead of working on the areas of the sport that need the most help (i.e. everything outside of Sydney and Brisbane that is dead or dying), he is going to focus on appeasing the powerful people in Sydney, and he has already disenfranchised a bunch of important people in the process!

It'd be a bit like if a politician openly ran with the policy of raising the poor's taxes and lowering the rich's, it's insane, but I guess if you are on of the rich it's a good deal...

BTW, there have been more than a few people in positions of authority that I've liked, but they never last long because they are always looking to make changes to improve the sport instead pandering to nostalgia, and the clubs and media in Sydney. So they always get stabbed in the back before they can get anything done.
So do you think 10 or7 will think differently when it coms to Gyngels remarks?
Seven definitely disagree with Gyngell, if they didn't they wouldn't have supported AFL expansion for years.

Aren't you also one of those Super League was the devil types?

If so why are you like 'the NRL should sell it's soul to do whatever is best for this broadcaster' when you'd have argued the exact opposite when News was the broadcaster throwing cash around?
You seam like a real glass half full type of guy :rolleyes:
Mate if you went to the pub and ordered a schooner, and they gave you a glass that was half empty then when you complained they said to you 'you're just being negative, it's not half empty it's half full' you'd be pissed too.

The whole half full saying is just people trying to distract you from issues that you have brought up, by blaming you for noticing the problems so they don't have to take responsibility for the problems they've failed to address or have outright ignored. It's a desperate attempt to get you to pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.
 

tri_colours

Juniors
Messages
1,944
Mate if you went to the pub and ordered a schooner, and they gave you a glass that was half empty then when you complained they said to you 'you're just being negative, it's not half empty it's half full' you'd be pissed too.

The whole half full saying is just people trying to distract you from issues that you have brought up, by blaming you for noticing the problems so they don't have to take responsibility for the problems they've failed to address or have outright ignored. It's a desperate attempt to get you to pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

There may be some truth to that.
 
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tri_colours

Juniors
Messages
1,944
Which is where your argument starts to come undone, as NRL has more viewers (490k to 419k per game avg), especially on subscription driven Fox and for events like Origin. again until we can see breakdown of what that advertising time difference is between the two sports its hard to quantify how much of the FTA difference comes down to that, or how much is due to capital city reach, value of advertising space as AFL is more attractive to corporates. And if it is due to this then surely bringing in 4 new teams to have two more games to advertise in should be the NRL's goal if that is where the TV revenue value sits?

We have about half the advertising opportunitys. Yet we get almost as much money? what do you think? maybe having the right dots in the right areas is a factor. A factor that was clear to V'Landy , Clear to Gyngel and the reason why AFL pours millions and millions and millions trying to get a stronger foothold On the East Coast, I wonder why ?
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
70,111
We have about half the advertising opportunitys. Yet we get almost as much money? what do you think? maybe having the right dots in the right areas is a factor. A factor that was clear to V'Landy , Clear to Gyngel and the reason why AFL pours millions and millions and millions trying to get a stronger foothold On the East Coast, I wonder why ?

where are you getting the “about a half” stat from. Not saying it isn’t true but is this a fact or your opinion?

we’re not getting nearly as much, were getting $40mill a year less despite having more viewers, some of the biggest sports viewed events in origin and around $20mill in international sales.
Effectively we are got around $60mill a year less fromAustralian tv rights and digital sales last year.

afl has poured millions 8mto getting dots in every major capital city in the country. Maybe we need some different dots on the map?
 

tri_colours

Juniors
Messages
1,944
where are you getting the “about a half” stat from. Not saying it isn’t true but is this a fact or your opinion?

we’re not getting nearly as much, were getting $40mill a year less despite having more viewers, some of the biggest sports viewed events in origin and around $20mill in international sales.
Effectively we are got around $60mill a year less fromAustralian tv rights and digital sales last year.

afl has poured millions 8mto getting dots in every major capital city in the country. Maybe we need some different dots on the map?

Fox:

AFL.
30minutes of breaks for all 9 games - around half that time would be spent advertising - about 15m per game, 140m a week - 3200m a year.

NRL.
10minutes " " " for 8 games " " " " " " about 5m a game - 40m per week. 1900m a year.


FTA:


AFL
During the match: About 20min (at least 4 matches) - around 80m a week - 1800m a year.

30m of breaks a in games - around half that time would be spent advertising - (4 matches) (about 15m per match, 60m a week - 1400m a year.

NRL

During the match: about 10m (3 matches), 30m a week, 700m a year.

10m of breaks - " " " " -about 5m during a game - 15m a week - 400m a year


Advertising minutes per year:

AFL: 3200m + 1800m + 1400m = 6400 minutes of Advertising.
NRL: 1900m + 700m + 400m = 3000m minutes of Advertising - (3 Origin games)


I would say that an Origin game would have about 3 times the adds that a club game has.

Naturally those figures will be out a bit but I don't think they will bet be too far out.

So were getting about 10 - 15% less money from the networks and providing them with about 50% less advertising..
 
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Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
70,111
Fox:

AFL.
30minutes of breaks for all 9 games - around half that time would be spent advertising - about 15m per game, 140m a week - 3200m a year.

NRL.
10minutes " " " for 8 games " " " " " " about 5m a game - 40m per week. 1900m a year.


FTA:


AFL
During the match: About 20min (at least 4 matches) - around 80m a week - 1800m a year.

30m of breaks a in games - around half that time would be spent advertising - (4 matches) (about 15m per match, 60m a week - 1400m a year.

NRL

During the match: about 10m (3 matches), 30m a week, 700m a year.

10m of breaks - " " " " -about 5m during a game - 15m a week - 400m a year


Advertising minutes per year:

AFL: 3200m + 1800m + 1400m = 6400 minutes of Advertising.
NRL: 1900m + 700m + 400m = 3000m minutes of Advertising - (3 Origin games)


I would say that an Origin game would have about 3 times the adds that a club game has.

Naturally those figures will be out a bit but I don't think they will bet be too far out.

So were getting about 10 - 15% less money from the networks and providing them with about 50% less advertising..

Thanks, not sure how accurate but at least some logic to your argument. Still not buying Fox as they make most of their money from subscribers with ads probably worth only about 1/10th of subscription revenue

Ads on FTa sell for around $30k a 30 sec slot for NRL games and $150k for 30sec of Origin advertising.

By your figures FTA would only be getting in about $66mill a year in advertising a year (1100mins x $60k per minute). Given they are paying around $125mill a year for NRL rights that seems quite a gap?

I'll get my stop watch out in rd 1 and see if we can get a more accurate figure, you have me intrigued now! I'll have to endure Ch9 coverage but I'll take one for the team!
 
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tri_colours

Juniors
Messages
1,944
I think I said a prime time add got almost $1000 for a 30sec add. I was way out. I don't know what I was thinking about. There worth quiet a bit more than that. The AFL GF was getting 150k 5 years ago, for 30sec slot.
 
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T-Boon

Coach
Messages
15,985
Sydney Sharks totally sounds better than the Cronulla Sharks. I think they could take over the city/city south. It would take 25 years.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
70,111
Sydney Sharks totally sounds better than the Cronulla Sharks. I think they could take over the city/city south. It would take 25 years.

south coast dragons sounds better, catchment stretching from city to Wollongong. Adelaide sharks has a better ring to it.
 

Wily Ole Dog

Juniors
Messages
1,600
south coast dragons sounds better, catchment stretching from city to Wollongong. Adelaide sharks has a better ring to it.


Has there been any surveys that claim to gather national supporter numbers?

surely the Sharks & Titans would be the least supported club nationally
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
7,960
Has there been any surveys that claim to gather national supporter numbers?

surely the Sharks & Titans would be the least supported club nationally

Roy Morgan does one for both the NRL and AFL, they’re a bit iffy in my opinion though.

They use an extremely loose definition of supporter.
 

mongoose

Coach
Messages
11,825
Has there been any surveys that claim to gather national supporter numbers?

surely the Sharks & Titans would be the least supported club nationally

according to official facebook page this is how many followers each club has. Obviously this has to be taken with a grain of salt as most of the followers are not paying members or engaged with the club in any meaningful way but I think it's interesting as it does show the potential fanbase each club could have...

Panthers - 160k
Raiders -164k
Sharks -169k
Dragons - 182k
Sea Eagles - 187k
Titans - 192k
Knights - 234k
Roosters - 240k
Tigers - 265k
Bulldogs - 283k
Cowboys 290k
Eels - 320k
Rabbitohs - 436k
Warriors - 475k
Storm 499k
Broncos - 656k

Titans have more followers than 5 other clubs. Broncos are miles ahead of everyone else.
Another interesting thing is the biggest AFL club on facebook only has 390k followers and that's Collingwood.
 

Wily Ole Dog

Juniors
Messages
1,600
Thanks mongoose. That’s very interesting. The top 3 clubs are 1 team states or country

the raiders and panthers are a shock
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
7,960
Are we seriously using Facebook followers as a measurement of support because we couldn't be bothered to google search the Roy Morgan polls!?

Here is the Roy Morgan data for 2019, 2018, and 2017.
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
7,960
Thanks mongoose. That’s very interesting. The top 3 clubs are 1 team states or country

the raiders and panthers are a shock
The Raiders are the team from the second smallest regional market and the one with the most competition, they've had restricted exposure compared to other clubs for decades now, and they've been at best mediocre for 25 years now.

Considering all the above, their being one of the NRL clubs with the least support isn't surprising at all, and in fact is just about what you'd expect.

I do however expect that if these polls were done in the 90s that you could basically swap the Raider's and Storm's place in the polls, which should be a massive warning to the Storm for how many fair weather, bandwagoner, only follow the most successful team types, will jump off once they start to go through some tough times.
 

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