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Team 20 - Who? Adelaide or Queensland 5?

Stormy weather

Juniors
Messages
83
The pro’s for Adelaide is it’s a new market, the cons are it won’t ever develop their own players. There are only 5 senior clubs in Adelaide.

The pros for Brisbane especially a western Brisbane bid is it consolidates the games heart land. The pathways created to a local club will provide a lot more community engagement.

From a Storm prospective I am concerned if the amount of teams in Queensland jumps from 3 to 5. 5 and a half really with the PNG team looked to be based out of Cairns.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
67,551
IF, and its a big IF, Pacifika are admitted in 2025 then it should be WC Pirates 2028 and either South Brisbane Firehawks 2033 or Adelaide Bears 2030. 20 teams by the 2033 TV deal is the goal.
 

Pippen94

First Grade
Messages
6,801
The pro’s for Adelaide is it’s a new market, the cons are it won’t ever develop their own players. There are only 5 senior clubs in Adelaide.

The pros for Brisbane especially a western Brisbane bid is it consolidates the games heart land. The pathways created to a local club will provide a lot more community engagement.

From a Storm prospective I am concerned if the amount of teams in Queensland jumps from 3 to 5. 5 and a half really with the PNG team looked to be based out of Cairns.

V'Landys is not paying for both Perth & Adelaide. Whichever govt offers more & who works with bears probably get in as 19th
 

MugaB

Coach
Messages
13,738
IF, and its a big IF, Pacifika are admitted in 2025 then it should be WC Pirates 2028 and either South Brisbane Firehawks 2033 or Adelaide Bears 2030. 20 teams by the 2033 TV deal is the goal.
They aren't going back to seq, to many vast options to fill 3 spaces, maybe after if they are travelling well and can see a 22-24 team comp, but thats 2040 at the earliest
 

Pippen94

First Grade
Messages
6,801
They aren't going back to seq, to many vast options to fill 3 spaces, maybe after if they are travelling well and can see a 22-24 team comp, but thats 2040 at the earliest

Brisbane Olympics could see stadium built in Ipswich & Springfield given some campaigning by NRL. Western Corridor team by 2032 very likely
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
67,551
They aren't going back to seq, to many vast options to fill 3 spaces, maybe after if they are travelling well and can see a 22-24 team comp, but thats 2040 at the earliest
This is ruba league. NS Bears and another brisbane team is very possible lol
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
67,551
Brisbane Olympics could see stadium built in Ipswich & Springfield given some campaigning by NRL. Western Corridor team by 2032 very likely
Olympic venue strategy is decided. It doesnt need another rectangular stadium. IF Brisbane get another team it will be Firehawks (or whatever Easts come up with next) wit a remit to cover the whole southern and SW Brisbane area.
 

Pippen94

First Grade
Messages
6,801
Olympic venue strategy is decided. It doesnt need another rectangular stadium. IF Brisbane get another team it will be Firehawks (or whatever Easts come up with next) wit a remit to cover the whole southern and SW Brisbane area.

Based in inner city with weird brand - no.
Olmpic venues fluid
 

Pippen94

First Grade
Messages
6,801
They should have been team 17, but hey ho.

Fluid as in the olympics are going to admit more sports that need a rectangular stadium? hahah

Sure

Ur the only person in the world that thinks a team called firehawks would've transitioned into Nrl as well as the dolphins
 

titoelcolombiano

First Grade
Messages
6,012
I love the narrative gaining momentum around expansion and I love the game finally being aggressive about growth. There are a couple of things that concern me though.

1. The proposed Pasifika idea, I can only see it ending in tears no matter which format it takes. Instead of pouring money into an NRL team, pour the money into pathways for each Pacific nation. A QLD / NSW Cup team for each with U21's, U19's and U17's in the respective system. That will do more for the NRL in terms of developing Pacific talent and will do more for each countries national team moving forward than a combined NRL team would.

2. I hope we aren't doing a 1995 and expanding a bit too quickly because we are entering a new golden age.

3. I actually like the idea of the Bears bringing a traditional brand back to the NRL, but it can't be at the expense of a currently untapped big city market, they can't be some hybrid model of 11 games in one city and one game at NS Oval and they really can't be based in Sydney as we have got more than enough teams there which makes it tough to bring them back considering the stance of the Bears' management.

My thoughts on who we should bring in are:

18. Perth - no brainer
19. Christchurch - presence on the South Island and has a natural rivalry with Auckland
20. Adelaide - big city market, needs to happen, will complete the national footprint in Australia

Other options:

South-West Brisbane Fire Jet Hawks (QLD is then a closed shop at NRL level). Will be successful but I think we need to wait until the comp is ready to go past 20 to do this.

Central Coast - this is our Tasmania and will have to wait for a team to voluntarily relocate there or until the NRL goes to 22 teams.

Pasifika - See above, best to spend money on giving them world class pathways and funding those teams to play in the QLD or NSW system.

Bears - give them the opportunity to bid as any of the above expansion teams, make it clear that they are to base themselves out of the bid city if they are successful and play 100% of their Premiership matches in that city and that the licence is tied to them remaining in that city. They either agree to the terms and re-enter the NRL or they don't and they stay in the NSW Cup.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
67,551
I love the narrative gaining momentum around expansion and I love the game finally being aggressive about growth. There are a couple of things that concern me though.

1. The proposed Pasifika idea, I can only see it ending in tears no matter which format it takes. Instead of pouring money into an NRL team, pour the money into pathways for each Pacific nation. A QLD / NSW Cup team for each with U21's, U19's and U17's in the respective system. That will do more for the NRL in terms of developing Pacific talent and will do more for each countries national team moving forward than a combined NRL team would.

2. I hope we aren't doing a 1995 and expanding a bit too quickly because we are entering a new golden age.

3. I actually like the idea of the Bears bringing a traditional brand back to the NRL, but it can't be at the expense of a currently untapped big city market, they can't be some hybrid model of 11 games in one city and one game at NS Oval and they really can't be based in Sydney as we have got more than enough teams there which makes it tough to bring them back considering the stance of the Bears' management.

My thoughts on who we should bring in are:

18. Perth - no brainer
19. Christchurch - presence on the South Island and has a natural rivalry with Auckland
20. Adelaide - big city market, needs to happen, will complete the national footprint in Australia

Other options:

South-West Brisbane Fire Jet Hawks (QLD is then a closed shop at NRL level). Will be successful but I think we need to wait until the comp is ready to go past 20 to do this.

Central Coast - this is our Tasmania and will have to wait for a team to voluntarily relocate there or until the NRL goes to 22 teams.

Pasifika - See above, best to spend money on giving them world class pathways and funding those teams to play in the QLD or NSW system.

Bears - give them the opportunity to bid as any of the above expansion teams, make it clear that they are to base themselves out of the bid city if they are successful and play 100% of their Premiership matches in that city and that the licence is tied to them remaining in that city. They either agree to the terms and re-enter the NRL or they don't and they stay in the NSW Cup.
Lets temper the excitement.
1. It was an idea put forward by a club chairman in a club/NRL meeting a few weeks ago
2. NRL has no plans, strategy, data or seemingly intention up until Politis mentioning it to move to 20 clubs in a 10 year period
3. Straight away its being denigrated by other clubs and the media

On the plus side
1. Vlandys seems to agree its a possibility
2. The feel good around the Dolphins (please keep winning!) has made people think differently about expansion
3. Theres obviously been some discussions are a Pacifika team with Aus Govt hence the 2025 rush job before election
4. For all his faults Vlandys is probably bullheaded enough to push it through
5. We have WA primed for a team, we have Aus govt seemingly willing to fund a team, we have Firehawks who could confidently set up a club and we have those pesky Bears who'll go anywhere. We have at least 3/4 location options that are all looking viable in a short period of time.
6. Vlandys is under enormous pressure to do something before AFL deal kicks in 2025
 
Last edited:

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
67,551
I agree I think the Pasifika idea is crazy and for all the wrong reasons. However if the Aus govt wants to throw silly money at the NRL then wed be stupid not to try and find a way that meets strategic goals AND is covered by external funding.
Best option I've come up with is Pacifika based out of Wellington. At least it has some long term future when Govt funding dries up.

Perth no brainer in my biased opinion. All the blocks are in place, now its just a case of Vlandys screwing the WA Govt for every last $ to help the game and the club.

Dolphins decision hasnt solved the Brisbane2 issue so there remains a glaringly obvious gap in the south and SW of Brisbane that needs filling at some time. Firehawks can easily and safley fill that gap but we have to give Dolphins a decade to be solid long term. We all saw what happened with Titans after 4 years of success at the beginning.

Adelaide a conundrum for sure. Its Australia's 5th biggest city, adds to metro rating value and has had good response to RL over the years. But it has zero jnrs, limited corporates, limited stadium and no bid team knocking on the door.

Then the pesky Bears. For me you pick the three areas you want to go to, see which is the biggest risk in terms of long term viability then offer the Bears to move there under some very strict criteria.

Of the 4 options the risk matrix would look (top being least risky, bottom most)

Firehawks
Perth
Pacifika (presuming long term Govt funding)
Adelaide

So Bears to Pacifika or Adelaide

Who I'd bring in

2025 Pacifika Bears (Wellington)
2028 WC Pirates
2033 South Brisbane Firehawks

or if Adelaide is deemed more strategic than over saturating Brisbane
2025 Pacifika Cyclones (Wellington)
2028 WC Pirates
2033 Adelaide Bears
 
Last edited:

mongoose

Coach
Messages
11,725
I agree I think the Pasifika idea is crazy and for all the wrong reasons. However if the Aus govt wants to throw silly money at the NRL then wed be stupid not to try and find a way that meets strategic goals AND is covered by external funding.
Best option I've come up with is Pacifika based out of Wellington. At least it has some long term future when Govt funding dries up.

Perth no brainer in my biased opinion. All the blocks are in place, now its just a case of Vlandys screwing the WA Govt for every last $ to help the game and the club.

Dolphins decision hasnt solved the Brisbane2 issue so there remains a glaringly obvious gap in the south and SW of Brisbane that needs filling at some time. Firehawks can easily and safley fill that gap but we have to give Dolphins a decade to be solid long term. We all saw what happened with Titans after 4 years of success at the beginning.

Adelaide a conundrum for sure. Its Australia's 5th biggest city, adds to metro rating value and has had good response to RL over the years. But it has zero jnrs, limited corporates, limited stadium and no bid team knocking on the door.

Then the pesky Bears. For me you pick the three areas you want to go to, see which is the biggest risk in terms of long term viability then offer the Bears to move there under some very strict criteria.

Of the 4 options the risk matrix would look (top being least risky, bottom most)

Firehawks
Perth
Pacifika (presuming long term Govt funding)
Adelaide

So Bears to Pacifika or Adelaide

Who I'd bring in

2025 Pacifika Bears (Wellington)
2028 WC Pirates
2033 South Brisbane Firehawks

or if Adelaide is deemed more strategic than over saturating Brisbane
2025 Pacifika Cyclones (Wellington)
2028 WC Pirates
2033 Adelaide Bears

It's too early to be making these claims... If the Firehawks were given the nod then we would be saying, what about Moreton Bay, what about Ipswich? Redcliffe just need to make sure they play most games at Suncorp - we will see how much support they get and where it comes from.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
67,551
It's too early to be making these claims... If the Firehawks were given the nod then we would be saying, what about Moreton Bay, what about Ipswich? Redcliffe just need to make sure they play most games at Suncorp - we will see how much support they get and where it comes from.
Thats why I wouldn't be making a decision on club 20 until 2030ish. Give Dolphins time to see if they stay an outer suburb Redcliffe club or if they can capture the hearts and wallets of all Brisbane. If they do, great no need for Brisbane 3 and we can use the license for Adelaide.

The Gemba report commissioned showed the biggest active fanbase already supporting a qlnd team was Moreton Bay (71%) so wouldn't say the area was being engaged.

brisbane report.jpg
brisbane report.jpg

Go to market for 2028 deal with19 clubs locked in and be ready to sell a 20 game comp for the 2033 deal.
 
Last edited:

Stormy weather

Juniors
Messages
83
I agree I think the Pasifika idea is crazy and for all the wrong reasons. However if the Aus govt wants to throw silly money at the NRL then wed be stupid not to try and find a way that meets strategic goals AND is covered by external funding.
Best option I've come up with is Pacifika based out of Wellington. At least it has some long term future when Govt funding dries up.

Perth no brainer in my biased opinion. All the blocks are in place, now its just a case of Vlandys screwing the WA Govt for every last $ to help the game and the club.

Dolphins decision hasnt solved the Brisbane2 issue so there remains a glaringly obvious gap in the south and SW of Brisbane that needs filling at some time. Firehawks can easily and safley fill that gap but we have to give Dolphins a decade to be solid long term. We all saw what happened with Titans after 4 years of success at the beginning.

Adelaide a conundrum for sure. Its Australia's 5th biggest city, adds to metro rating value and has had good response to RL over the years. But it has zero jnrs, limited corporates, limited stadium and no bid team knocking on the door.

Then the pesky Bears. For me you pick the three areas you want to go to, see which is the biggest risk in terms of long term viability then offer the Bears to move there under some very strict criteria.

Of the 4 options the risk matrix would look (top being least risky, bottom most)

Firehawks
Perth
Pacifika (presuming long term Govt funding)
Adelaide

So Bears to Pacifika or Adelaide

Who I'd bring in

2025 Pacifika Bears (Wellington)
2028 WC Pirates
2033 South Brisbane Firehawks

or if Adelaide is deemed more strategic than over saturating Brisbane
2025 Pacifika Cyclones (Wellington)
2028 WC Pirates
2033 Adelaide Bears
The Australian government won’t fund a team in NZ
 

xe_kilroy

Juniors
Messages
319
Dolphins was a strategic move to grab/consolidate the northern corridor (one of the fastest growing regions in Australia. Grab it and ensure AFL don't get a footing there. Why Dolphins are spreading the brand right up thru SC and CQ.

The AFL has already planted itself in the western corridor. The NRL will have to fight for that with next SEQ expansion team from there....but no rush.
 

macca_saint

Juniors
Messages
215
I love the narrative gaining momentum around expansion and I love the game finally being aggressive about growth. There are a couple of things that concern me though.

1. The proposed Pasifika idea, I can only see it ending in tears no matter which format it takes. Instead of pouring money into an NRL team, pour the money into pathways for each Pacific nation. A QLD / NSW Cup team for each with U21's, U19's and U17's in the respective system. That will do more for the NRL in terms of developing Pacific talent and will do more for each countries national team moving forward than a combined NRL team would.

2. I hope we aren't doing a 1995 and expanding a bit too quickly because we are entering a new golden age.

3. I actually like the idea of the Bears bringing a traditional brand back to the NRL, but it can't be at the expense of a currently untapped big city market, they can't be some hybrid model of 11 games in one city and one game at NS Oval and they really can't be based in Sydney as we have got more than enough teams there which makes it tough to bring them back considering the stance of the Bears' management.

My thoughts on who we should bring in are:

18. Perth - no brainer
19. Christchurch - presence on the South Island and has a natural rivalry with Auckland
20. Adelaide - big city market, needs to happen, will complete the national footprint in Australia

Other options:

South-West Brisbane Fire Jet Hawks (QLD is then a closed shop at NRL level). Will be successful but I think we need to wait until the comp is ready to go past 20 to do this.

Central Coast - this is our Tasmania and will have to wait for a team to voluntarily relocate there or until the NRL goes to 22 teams.

Pasifika - See above, best to spend money on giving them world class pathways and funding those teams to play in the QLD or NSW system.

Bears - give them the opportunity to bid as any of the above expansion teams, make it clear that they are to base themselves out of the bid city if they are successful and play 100% of their Premiership matches in that city and that the licence is tied to them remaining in that city. They either agree to the terms and re-enter the NRL or they don't and they stay in the NSW Cup.
Great post. Love the idea of expanding to both Perth and Adelaide but I feel like the NRL could be pulling a 1995 if they did them both too close together. Considering the ongoing resources they’d both require, it could end up like GWS and the Suns in the AFL which were done in rapid succession. I don’t think the NRL has the appetite for that.
 

macca_saint

Juniors
Messages
215
western corridor is League through and through, people there aren't going to switch to AFL en masse cause the Lions have some training ground there lol

you people are so paranoid
It’s not about League people “switching” to AFL as such.
It’s more about the long game. i.e. more kids playing AFL because it’s in their school, more AFL fields popping up around the place etc.
The AFL will have a lot more disposable money to do this kind of stuff because of their TV deal.
 
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