Team list Tuesday Rd 10 v Roosters

[emjaycee]

This time around there is no compelling reason to pick him. So he can be given benchmarks in reggies before he gets selected.

I spoke with someone last night who reckons the plan is for Sivo to do one week in reggies (next week) and then be back in FG.

I also asked him whether Sivo has been doing any speed training and he said that Sivo is actually pretty fast. This guy would know as he trains with the team and plays in the outside backs.

 

[hindy111]

I spoke with someone last night who reckons the plan is for Sivo to do one week in reggies (next week) and then be back in FG.

I also asked him whether Sivo has been doing any speed training and he said that Sivo is actually pretty fast. This guy would know as he trains with the team and plays in the outside backs.

Sivo will be in the starting side. He has some flaws but is still the best winger at the club. Unless we want to count Blake.
But I still think we see Simmonson amd Sivo on the wing with Blake and Penisini in centres.
Russel will get some game time but probably will see more NRL in 2023.
If he can shine he may even end up our fullback. That puts Gutherson at 5/8 and means we can decide on what way we want to go with our halves as far as Moses and Brown.
I think it will be hard to keep Guth, Brown and Moses together.

 

[TheRam]

Matto is not playing origin. Zero chance I reckon.
Jnr will be picked and that is all. RCG would be a maybe but I think Safiti,Jnr,Haas will be 3 middles.
Yeo will lock with Crighton and Murray the 2nd row.
Bench will be Haas,Jake, Papenhauzen,Martin....

Unfortunately I can see both our props being picked this year. At some stage Haas is going to get ruled out with that shoulder issue.

I was hoping though that none of our players would get picked this year. They don't need the extra mileage in the legs and bumps and bruises or Heaven forbid injury. This is probably our last genuine window year for the next who the 'F' knows? But it will be years. The fresher all our boys are the better for the pointy end of the season.

We aren't the Roosters in the sense we aren't ruthless enough to rejig a roster fast like they do. It will be a while to get back to this level again. Our management are like Pou and his posse, soft, full of excuses and forgiving of failure and almost there performance seasons. They believe and rightly so, that only Premierships are a mark of success.

No excuses.

 

[TheRam]

I spoke with someone last night who reckons the plan is for Sivo to do one week in reggies (next week) and then be back in FG.

I also asked him whether Sivo has been doing any speed training and he said that Sivo is actually pretty fast. This guy would know as he trains with the team and plays in the outside backs.

Compared to?

 

[Gary Gutful]

Sivo if people remember correctly was getting massively dominated on his hitups and has a knack of turning his back. Plus turns like the titanic in defence.
Needs at least 2 games in Reserves before considering a 1st grade run.
Also coming back from an ACL can take some if not most 12 months after resuming playing to be at full pace..For now I think Russell would be a better option unless the coaching staff can see he is doing everything required and won't be a liability

Good point. I tend to agree.

 

[hindy111]

Unfortunately I can see both our props being picked this year. At some stage Haas is going to get ruled out with that shoulder issue.

I was hoping though that none of our players would get picked this year. They don't need the extra mileage in the legs and bumps and bruises or Heaven forbid injury. This is probably our last genuine window year for the next who the 'F' knows? But it will be years. The fresher all our boys are the better for the pointy end of the season.

We aren't the Roosters in the sense we aren't ruthless enough to rejig a roster fast like they do. It will be a while to get back to this level again. Our management are like Pou and his posse, soft, full of excuses and forgiving of failure and almost there performance seasons. They believe and rightly so, that only Premierships are a mark of success.

No excuses.

We don't know how much money we have to spend for 2023. Does anyone?

At this stage our spine will be Guth,Brown,Moses,Hodgson. One of the better spines. And we still will have two of the best props in the business. Along with 2 very good centres. On the flanks there will be Simonsson, Dunster,Russel and Sivo to chose from.
Brown should only continue to improve. The question will be over Hodgson. But who knows. Yates or Hands may develop into a bench role.

Aslong as we signed Matterson then the only guys need replacing are Marata and Papali'i. We seemed to be going ok without Marata.
If we did land someone like Angus Critchton we might be as strong. Two top shelf props with Matterson in the middle and Lane and Angus on the edge.
Guys like Stone will be replaced with Rodwell. Much of a muchness if ask me. Then I guess a lot also depends on what juniors come up. I don't see any debut this season which means most likely 2 or 3 will spring up in 2023/2024.

Greig will take Kafusi spot. Which won't be a huge drop off. Maybe even upside.

So come 2024 how will we be placed? I reckon that depends on what juniors spring up. There will more then likely be a couple of kids ready for the top grade by then. Just depends what level they are. Will they be in the Brown/Pensini class or the Kafusi/Dunster league.


I know little about our juniors. It seems like Larry a big prop is talented. And I've read good things about a few other players also. Its easy for us all to get lost with the future but without much knowledge of what are coming through the system we have to put faith in our coaching staff who have been doing an ok job as far as developing guys.

If we did need to free up cash I wouldn't be against releasing Sivo or even N.Brown a year early. That's a million right there or close. Brown will turn 30 before next season starts. I wouldn't be suprised if he set off to the UK on a 3 yr deal while still playing reasonably good footy.

 

[hindy111]

Good point. I tend to agree.

His defense was suspect. But only once an overlap was created.
Reality is more times then not once the overlap is there the side will score. Sivo being slow just makes it look easier then a faster guy getting closer to them

I just know plenty of games when we where on the back foot and Sivo would take a strong carry, skittle defenders and run 15mtrs. Completely changed momentum of the set and game.
He will have 12-15 carries. 2 or 3 of those are generally momentum changers. The others are similar to what Russel or Simmonson will offer.

He is also solid under the high ball. And from 10mtrs out one on one almost unstoppable. So we need to put his positive against his negatives.

If we chose not to have Sivo in the side then it isn't for Russel but for Opacic. That means Blake to the wing. It would be suicidal come finals to go in with two fast wingers with little go forward.

If Russel is to take someone's spot it has to be Simmonsons.

 

[Gronk]

We aren't the Roosters in the sense we aren't ruthless enough to rejig a roster fast like they do.

The Roosters have shown that as much as they have an open cheque book, their retention is hit and miss.

If you believe what Kent said that night, they are ready to move on Keary.

So that means that they have failed with Flanagan, failed with Walker as an organising 7 and moved him to 6 and failed on Keary becoming an organiser too and are now looking towards Munster and shifting Walker back to 7.

Also if they are hoping that Cheese is a crafty hooker, then they may well fail at that too.

 

[Gary Gutful]

His defense was suspect. But only once an overlap was created.
Reality is more times then not once the overlap is there the side will score. Sivo being slow just makes it look easier then a faster guy getting closer to them

I just know plenty of games when we where on the back foot and Sivo would take a strong carry, skittle defenders and run 15mtrs. Completely changed momentum of the set and game.
He will have 12-15 carries. 2 or 3 of those are generally momentum changers. The others are similar to what Russel or Simmonson will offer.

He is also solid under the high ball. And from 10mtrs out one on one almost unstoppable. So we need to put his positive against his negatives.

If we chose not to have Sivo in the side then it isn't for Russel but for Opacic. That means Blake to the wing. It would be suicidal come finals to go in with two fast wingers with little go forward.

If Russel is to take someone's spot it has to be Simmonsons.

When’s Blake back? He was dynamite on the wing earlier in the season.

 

[TheRam]

We don't know how much money we have to spend for 2023. Does anyone?

At this stage our spine will be Guth,Brown,Moses,Hodgson. One of the better spines. And we still will have two of the best props in the business. Along with 2 very good centres. On the flanks there will be Simonsson, Dunster,Russel and Sivo to chose from.
Brown should only continue to improve. The question will be over Hodgson. But who knows. Yates or Hands may develop into a bench role.

Aslong as we signed Matterson then the only guys need replacing are Marata and Papali'i. We seemed to be going ok without Marata.
If we did land someone like Angus Critchton we might be as strong. Two top shelf props with Matterson in the middle and Lane and Angus on the edge.
Guys like Stone will be replaced with Rodwell. Much of a muchness if ask me. Then I guess a lot also depends on what juniors come up. I don't see any debut this season which means most likely 2 or 3 will spring up in 2023/2024.

Greig will take Kafusi spot. Which won't be a huge drop off. Maybe even upside.

So come 2024 how will we be placed? I reckon that depends on what juniors spring up. There will more then likely be a couple of kids ready for the top grade by then. Just depends what level they are. Will they be in the Brown/Pensini class or the Kafusi/Dunster league.


I know little about our juniors. It seems like Larry a big prop is talented. And I've read good things about a few other players also. Its easy for us all to get lost with the future but without much knowledge of what are coming through the system we have to put faith in our coaching staff who have been doing an ok job as far as developing guys.

If we did need to free up cash I wouldn't be against releasing Sivo or even N.Brown a year early. That's a million right there or close. Brown will turn 30 before next season starts. I wouldn't be suprised if he set off to the UK on a 3 yr deal while still playing reasonably good footy.

Agreed with all of that Hindy, but if we do lose Matterson on top of Marata and Papali'i and don't replace them with like for like, then no matter if we kept everyone else in my opinion we are out of our premiership window.

I feel it will all depend on what BA and what the boys achieve this season. At the very least they need to make the GF for players outside of our club to consider BA a good bet and capable of winning a premiership. That way when quality players are weighing up their options when deciding their future and the money is not the only consideration or very similar to other offers, they the coach is the deciding factor.

That is why I would be ruthless and if BA doesn't make the GF this season, I would cut him and do what I suggested early and try and get a Sheens/Ciraldo combo to the club but if Sheens isn't an option Ciraldo would be given the keys to the kingdom before Gus pulls the trigger with Barrett. My fear is that by the time BA's contract is up and still no premiership, Ciraldo will have been snapped up and we will scratching our head who and what direction should we go in.

I believe Ciraldo is a quality coach that has done his apprenticeship and will quickly establish himself as a high end quality coach if he is given a decent team to start with and can attract quality players from there. It will be very hard for us to find someone that is as ready as he is and with the respect that he has in RL circles for a guy that is yet to be given an NRL team of his own. We have already missed out on Fitzgibbon. I prey we don't miss out of Ciraldo. The cupboard is quite bare after him as far as rookies is concerned. We will whinge again as to why we can't seem to hire the best and guys like pou will say it all comes down to money, when in reality all it comes down to is a single bloody mindedness with a clear vision for success and doing whatever it takes. The money is secondary. All teams have the same $5m to work in outside of the player salary cap.

Pou just doesn't get that and thinks, well who knows what he freakin thinks because mostly what he thinks is sh*t? The best coaches get signed by the clubs that know what success looks like and are persuasive enough and or smart enough to put the right plans in motion to get there and quickly. Getting your off field coaching set up right shouldn't be a 3-5 year plan.

Ciraldo is available now. There are no excuses. If we don't make the GF we should pounce. Sympathy and loyalty is for also rans. He has had 9 years and the clock is ticking on our roster and on Ciraldo. Lets hope that the brains trust of this club don't leave either till it is to late.

 

[Gazzamatta]

Id suggest Peter Wallace is gaining in experience. Been in the coaching ranks for a good while now. Was a tough player. Reminded me of Des Hasler. Given hes currently an assistant of an assistant he might be worth a sneaky look to bring into the system.

 

[hindy111]

When’s Blake back? He was dynamite on the wing earlier in the season.

Website has no return date for Waqa or Marata. But says rnd 12-14 for Sivo. Based on what others have said it seems Sivo will be back rnd 11 in NSW cup and rnd 12 maybe for first grade.

On foxsports website Blake was listed as rnd 15 which makes it 10 weeks. I did read previously he sustained a 6-8 week injury. And he was injured in rnd 5. That suggest rnd 11 - rnd 13. And I also read he was ahead of schedule. But who knows.

Same goes for Marata who has only played one game so far. Anyone have any news on these two?

 

[TheRam]

The Roosters have shown that as much as they have an open cheque book, their retention is hit and miss.

If you believe what Kent said that night, they are ready to move on Keary.

So that means that they have failed with Flanagan, failed with Walker as an organising 7 and moved him to 6 and failed on Keary becoming an organiser too and are now looking towards Munster and shifting Walker back to 7.

Also if they are hoping that Cheese is a crafty hooker, then they may well fail at that too.

The Roosters have won 3 premierships in 10 years. They must love what failing looks like.

As for all the players that you believe are failures, I could write in detail as to why you are wrong on most, but can't be bothered really.

The real point to all of this though is not that the Roosters can get it wrong here and there, like all clubs do for varying reasons and a lot can stem from the loyalty between the coach and his players, especially if they have had mega success together over a few seasons prior. But the real point is the management above the coaching and their(Politis) ability to put aside that loyalty and see what needs to be done and pushes the coach in the right direction. Moves the players on that they see won't be part of a premiership tilt from here on in and brings in the new and fresh superstars that will that they believe will.

Watch this space champ.

 

[Gronk]

The Roosters have won 3 premierships in 10 years. They must love what failing looks like.

As for all the players that you believe are failures, I could write in detail as to why you are wrong on most, but can't be bothered really.

The real point to all of this though is not that the Roosters can get it wrong here and there, like all clubs do for varying reasons and a lot can stem from the loyalty between the coach and his players, especially if they have had mega success together over a few seasons prior. But the real point is the management above the coaching and their(Politis) ability to put aside that loyalty and see what needs to be done and pushes the coach in the right direction. Moves the players on that they see won't be part of a premiership tilt from here on in and brings in the new and fresh superstars that will that they believe will.

Watch this space champ.

TLDR: The Roosters can be loyal with players except when they are not.

Bringing up ancient history about Premierships does nothing to justify their current problems.

They won the comp with Cronk in 2019 and three seasons on have yet to settle on a 6 & 7.

 

[TheRam]

His defense was suspect. But only once an overlap was created.
Reality is more times then not once the overlap is there the side will score. Sivo being slow just makes it look easier then a faster guy getting closer to them

I just know plenty of games when we where on the back foot and Sivo would take a strong carry, skittle defenders and run 15mtrs. Completely changed momentum of the set and game.
He will have 12-15 carries. 2 or 3 of those are generally momentum changers. The others are similar to what Russel or Simmonson will offer.

He is also solid under the high ball. And from 10mtrs out one on one almost unstoppable. So we need to put his positive against his negatives.

If we chose not to have Sivo in the side then it isn't for Russel but for Opacic. That means Blake to the wing. It would be suicidal come finals to go in with two fast wingers with little go forward.

If Russel is to take someone's spot it has to be Simmonsons.

Probably right Hindy, but we will need to see how Sivo comes back to make a proper call on it. But I have a feeling that Russell will only keep getting better the more he plays and if we are to have him in the team at all this season the more games he plays now before the playoffs the better for his development and overall quality of what he will be able to produce come finals time. If we can get him around 15 games this season it is about the right amount for essentially a debut season and he won't struggle with fatigue which can often be the case with young newbies.

But ultimately baring more injuries, it is a very good position to be in and gives us quite a few options to work with.

 

[emjaycee]

Agreed with all of that Hindy, but if we do lose Matterson on top of Marata and Papali'i and don't replace them with like for like, then no matter if we kept everyone else in my opinion we are out of our premiership window.

I feel it will all depend on what BA and what the boys achieve this season. At the very least they need to make the GF for players outside of our club to consider BA a good bet and capable of winning a premiership. That way when quality players are weighing up their options when deciding their future and the money is not the only consideration or very similar to other offers, they the coach is the deciding factor.

That is why I would be ruthless and if BA doesn't make the GF this season, I would cut him and do what I suggested early and try and get a Sheens/Ciraldo combo to the club but if Sheens isn't an option Ciraldo would be given the keys to the kingdom before Gus pulls the trigger with Barrett. My fear is that by the time BA's contract is up and still no premiership, Ciraldo will have been snapped up and we will scratching our head who and what direction should we go in.

I believe Ciraldo is a quality coach that has done his apprenticeship and will quickly establish himself as a high end quality coach if he is given a decent team to start with and can attract quality players from there. It will be very hard for us to find someone that is as ready as he is and with the respect that he has in RL circles for a guy that is yet to be given an NRL team of his own. We have already missed out on Fitzgibbon. I prey we don't miss out of Ciraldo. The cupboard is quite bare after him as far as rookies is concerned. We will whinge again as to why we can't seem to hire the best and guys like pou will say it all comes down to money, when in reality all it comes down to is a single bloody mindedness with a clear vision for success and doing whatever it takes. The money is secondary. All teams have the same $5m to work in outside of the player salary cap.

Pou just doesn't get that and thinks, well who knows what he freakin thinks because mostly what he thinks is sh*t? The best coaches get signed by the clubs that know what success looks like and are persuasive enough and or smart enough to put the right plans in motion to get there and quickly. Getting your off field coaching set up right shouldn't be a 3-5 year plan.

Ciraldo is available now. There are no excuses. If we don't make the GF we should pounce. Sympathy and loyalty is for also rans. He has had 9 years and the clock is ticking on our roster and on Ciraldo. Lets hope that the brains trust of this club don't leave either till it is to late.

I reckon Ciraldo will struggle to attract quality players who are wanting more than just dollars until he wins or at least makes a GF.

 

[TheRam]

I reckon Ciraldo will struggle to attract quality players who are wanting more than just dollars until he wins or at least makes a GF.

Well if we give him a decent and quality roster, I think he will do well. But we are all guessing until he has a chance to prove himself.

What we don't need to guess at to hard at is what BA brings and doesn't bring to the table and like I said after 9 seasons now and if he doesn't make the GF this season we at least know that he will not get us there after this season no matter how much we all want him to.

So if we don't get there again this year, cut him, why waste another season and risk losing a quality rookie that is currently available now?

Or do you have someone better in mind? I don't think Flanagan is a better option for a bunch of reasons other then experience. But I suppose he would be ok at a pinch if a clean skin like Ciraldo wasn't available.

 

[hindy111]

Well if we give him a decent and quality roster, I think he will do well. But we are all guessing until he has a chance to prove himself.

What we don't need to guess at to hard at is what BA brings and doesn't bring to the table and like I said after 9 seasons now and if he doesn't make the GF this season we at least know that he will not get us there after this season no matter how much we all want him to.

So if we don't get there again this year, cut him, why waste another season and risk losing a quality rookie that is currently available now?

Or do you have someone better in mind? I don't think Flanagan is a better option for a bunch of reasons other then experience. But I suppose he would be ok at a pinch if a clean skin like Ciraldo wasn't available.

I agree. We have to atleast reach the game before grand final. If we bow out in week 2 or prior once again it's just another fail.
On paper we have the 3rd best squad in the competition.

Manlys side is solid but has a lot of holes. The Rooster don't have as good a spine or forwards.

Who else is there? Panthers and Storm have better squads. If we lost to them a week out from the grand final in a close match. A coin toss then I'd keep him. If we don't make it that far or get belted a week before the grand final I see no point on continuing into year 10 with BA.

Ciraldo might be far worse. It is a gamble. One id be happy to take.

Let's just see how this season ends up first.

 

[Gronk]

I agree. We have to atleast reach the game before grand final. If we bow out in week 2 or prior once again it's just another fail.
On paper we have the 3rd best squad in the competition.

Manlys side is solid but has a lot of holes. The Rooster don't have as good a spine or forwards.

Who else is there? Panthers and Storm have better squads. If we lost to them a week out from the grand final in a close match. A coin toss then I'd keep him. If we don't make it that far or get belted a week before the grand final I see no point on continuing into year 10 with BA.

Ciraldo might be far worse. It is a gamble. One id be happy to take.

Let's just see how this season ends up first.

What is this obsession with making week 3 being a litmus test of success ?

Pennys got beat by Souths in Week 1 last year which meant that we played Pennys in week 2 and they only won 8-6 because they cheated. They then went on top win the comp. Only a fish brain fool would conclude that it was a shit season because we didn't progress to week 3.

Rugby league community awestruck after ‘game of the year’​

https://www.news.com.au/sport/nrl/rugby-league-community-awestruck-after-game-of-the-year/news-story/0823d9dbf96e2e85f3754dff608b3acc

 

[Suitman]

What is this obsession with making week 3 being a litmus test of success ?

Probably because we haven't made it to that stage in 8 previous years.
That's not acceptable for a club of our stature.
36 years without a comp is even worse.
Something has to change.
The front office is sorted so it's now up to the players and coaching staff to take us to the next level.
In my mind, nothing but a grand final appearance this year for Arthur could save his ass.