Team list Tuesday Rd 10 v Roosters

[Gronk]

Just outside of the top 4 and / or a week 2 exit seems to be where we finish most years. No surprise we are currently running 5th again. Indicates to me we are getting stale.

OK so you are not renewing the coach based on time in the gig and results achieved. Fair enough, that's not the way that I would run a business as I would be more focused on the now. All good but.

 

[Gronk]

But to keep doing the same thing over and over

You don't think we're playing different footy than compared to past years ? No game plans which bring down the big dogs ?

For mine it's all about the gap between our best and our worst. IIRC there was a time not long ago (around the opening of Bankwest) where we couldn't buy an away win. Our kicking game was abysmal and teams could easily pin us down and we'd struggle to get off our try line. Then when we'd get to the red zone, we'd go sideways and couldn't cross the line.

 

[IFR33K]

We are stale.

Yep. Straight sets exit in consecutive years tells the story.

 

[Noise]

OK so you are not renewing the coach based on time in the gig and results achieved. Fair enough, that's not the way that I would run a business as I would be more focused on the now. All good but.

The now results (5th) are similar to past results. How do you know if someone has grown stale if you aren't looking at the now and comparing it to the past?

 

[IFR33K]

More information ? IIRC we have had one bad loss. Two loses in the 79th minute and beat the top two teams.

You should be more concerned with our semi final exits. Premierships aren’t won in May.

 

[84 Baby]

You should be more concerned with our semi final exits. Premierships aren’t won in May.

Nor is this years premiership won in the past two seasons semifinals

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Of course Ciraldo is a risk. BA is tried and tested.
He could be better or he could be worse. But at some point we need to try something different. We can't just keep BA for the next 30yrs with similar results.

Lots of rookie coaches fail. Largely cause they end up at shit clubs who are in a red hot mess and why the coach was punted in the first place.

Coaches who have gone ok recently are Fitzgibbin and Payten. They come into ok squads and built on them.

Barrett, Brown,Holbrook all ended up at poor clubs. I reckon given our squad they would be doing better then are at own club.

BA has made some solid signings in his time. He also got extremely lucky with some duds. Had Foran contract not blown up or Watmough the whole BA experiment ended 5yrs ago.
We never would of landed Moses for starters. The rest is history.

But he did also lose 2016 due to the salary cap etc.

ANYHOWS if we are to change coaches and there is no great ones available then your forced to take a risk on a rookie. Reason why Ciraldo is being thrown around is cause people rate him. Same as BA when he w a s a rookie.

I also thought Holbrook would go well but his signings have been gash and same goes for his bizarre sqaud

It's not the coaches that sign players and in any case they are competing with other clubs for signings. The coaches all know who the best players are and I'm sure they would rather have the ideal player at every position without paying overs. The reality is it's out of their hands.

 

[IFR33K]

Nor is this years premiership won in the past two seasons semifinals

Wasn’t saying to sack him as of today. Do you think he’s had ample opportunity?

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Sure. So it worked once in 80 mins?

Perhaps we lost cause Junior dropped the ball on the 2nd tackle?

Well we lost by two points and scored as many tries as the opposition, so all these moments matter. On the weekend we won by two and again scored the same number of tries as them. Both equal games and luck played a part in both of them. Also one of our tries was from a bomb. One try from three bombs was a pretty good return. Moses also put up three bombs in the semi final. The problem in that game was we threw too many passes, much like the recent loss to the Darwin Titans. The Panthers halves threw 68 passes in last year's semi final while our halves passed 92 times. On the weekend our halves combined for only 60 passes. That statistic shows the tactics. The more passes your halves throw the more lateral you played. But but all we do is bomb ffs

 

[84 Baby]

Wasn’t saying to sack him as of today. Do you think he’s had ample opportunity?

Yes and if the decision was simply past results based he probably be given a nice golden handshake.
But of course the real decision needs to be weighed against potential future results whether it’s BA or someone else, along with multiple other factors (money, recruitment, sponsorship, fan support).

I think it was IALB yesterday who said basically you can’t KPI your coach appointment. I think you can and that as a club we’re one of the better ones at it (also possibly overdoing it). And I believe given the at times overcooked scrutiny our club puts on player recruitment, it’d be naive to think the same level of detail isn’t applied to the coaching recruitment. Obviously that also will mean we’re more risk adverse but safer long term.

So to try and cheat that risk adverse people make smaller changes to hopefully nudge closer to success with less risk of breaking their safety net. In this case, I think this is why Johns, McGregor and Ennis have been brought in part time, while Murphy and Kidwell are still fulltime.

 

[Gronk]

You should be more concerned with our semi final exits. Premierships aren’t won in May.

I get that, but as I said, would a business would use those metrics in a job performance review ? Or would they focus on the business today ?

I totally understand why they may feel that a coach has reached his peak, but if the consensus is that the team is improving, what exactly are the KPIs you want? "You haven't won a comp" seems to be a rather superficial and macro analysis.

If he has plateaued, then you make a change for the better. Gambling on a rookie is not making a change for the better. We don't need to gamble right now like the Tigers. We need to make a change for the better.

Our next hurdle is to be able to beat everyone below us every time. Can an untried rookie deliver that ?

Love for someone to do a rundown on the "next guy up" coaches who have been deemed by the media after they have served under Belly or Robbo. Not a great strike rate I reckon.

 

[eel01s]

Given the lack of other available stand out coaching options, I think it is a better bet to change our assistant coaches for next season. Hopfully both Murphy and Kidwell gone to be replaced with well credentialed attack and defence coaches.

 

[Gronk]

Given the lack of other available stand out coaching options, I think it is a better bet to change our assistant coaches for next season. Hopfully both Murphy and Kidwell gone to be replaced with well credentialed attack and defence coaches.

I reckon that will happen if better options are out there. The fact that we have brought in Ennis and Mary suggests that MON is not oblivious to this concept.

 

[TheRam]

I don’t disagree that we could have more success with a better coach (leaving aside the debate on who is or isn’t a better coach) but why would a better coach want to come here after our premiership window has supposedly closed? Do these better coaches want to do rebuilding? Where have they done it in recent years? Where has a better coach stepped in and not had success within the first year or two?

If memory serves me correctly, Bellamy stepped into a declining Storm roster, but not a crappy one and created his dynasty.

Our roster next year will be decent and may even be good enough to finish somewhere in the top 8, but as it stands right now definitely won't be vying for a premiership. This year a young quality coach named Fitzgibbon joined the Sharks knowing that their roster was far from the finished product even though they made the semis and brought in some new blood and they are well and truly on their way. Good and great players will sign if the roster is decent, the coach is considered quality and the management is stable. They fit all 3 categories.

We will be in the Sharks position next year and I believe that should trigger the same response if we want to move forward again quickly before we end up as a cellar dweller club that will be much harder to attract the better coaches and players to get us out of it again. Not to mention the decades that are passing without a premiership. Would it really surprise anyone if we reach the 50 year mark without one?

Sadly I don't think so.

 

[IFR33K]

I get that, but as I said, would a business would use those metrics in a job performance review ? Or would they focus on the business today ?

I totally understand why they may feel that a coach has reached his peak, but if the consensus is that the team is improving, what exactly are the KPIs you want? "You haven't won a comp" seems to be a rather superficial and macro analysis.

If he has plateaued, then you make a change for the better. Gambling on a rookie is not making a change for the better. We don't need to gamble right now like the Tigers. We need to make a change for the better.

Our next hurdle is to be able to beat everyone below us every time. Can an untried rookie deliver that ?

Love for someone to do a rundown on the "next guy up" coaches who have been deemed by the media after they have served under Belly or Robbo. Not a great strike rate I reckon.

you’re in business aren’t you?

would you persist doing, what didn’t work, last year and the year before? Like after 10 years are you still attempting the same thing that proved to be a failure for the previous 9?

 

[Gronk]

We will be in the Sharks position next year

You have been caught up in the media frenzy and gone off early.

They beat us in the 79th minute at their first game back at Shark Park for years.

Who else have they beat ?

Draw

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[Gronk]

you’re in business aren’t you?

would you persist doing, what didn’t work, last year and the year before? Like after 10 years are you still attempting the same thing that proved to be a failure for the previous 9?

I've already answered that.

 

[IFR33K]

I've already answered that.

So it’s a no?

 

[Gronk]

So it’s a no?

Team list Tuesday Rd 10 v Roosters

Just outside of the top 4 and / or a week 2 exit seems to be where we finish most years. No surprise we are currently running 5th again. Indicates to me we are getting stale. OK so you are not renewing the coach based on time in the gig and results achieved. Fair enough, that's not the way that...

forums.leagueunlimited.com

 

[84 Baby]

you’re in business aren’t you?

would you persist doing, what didn’t work, last year and the year before? Like after 10 years are you still attempting the same thing that proved to be a failure for the previous 9?

Is the reason for failure simply BAs existence?