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The 2013/2014 Off Season Thread

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Gronk

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I didn't side step anything. From my original post I said there are still questions that I would like answered.

1. Namely: the recent temperature movements that are claimed as anthropogenic can be found occurring naturally in recent history. As a matter of fact, they can be found occurring naturally at several very important points in time. Firstly, just prior to the start of the Industrial Revolution and, secondly, just prior to the Post-War Economic Boom.

2. So, if these increases occurred naturally in recent times (which, geologically, would only be considered yesterday) then why is the most recent increase (which appears no different to previous natural trends) anthropogenic?

Similarly, these increases are seen to come in spurts with intervening stable periods, similar to what we have seen since 1999. So, the 1975-present variations (increase followed by pause) actually appears to be nothing more than a continuation of the cycle that has been going on for the last couple of centuries - well before anthropogenic carbon was introduced into the atmosphere.

3. So, once again...why is the post-1975 cycle any different to the undoubtedly natural cycles that occurred prior to it, and which it reflects almost perfectly?

***

And before you start asking for papers etc...there is enough info in the pamphlet you linked to to illustrate the pre-PWEB cycle and, secondly, I'm not the one stating that there has been a change in cause so I'm not the one that needs to prove anything. All the proof I need is actually in the links you have already posted (without actually knowing what you are doing or referencing).

Ok, so you have a bunch of unanswered questions before you can conclude one way or another , yet you say that all the proof you need is in the links I posted ? You seem confused. Well you've confused me anyway.

So do you have solid scientific evidence or is it just anecdotal ?

You seem to be going with your gut and siding with the conservative minority. I, on the other hand, am just as concerned and will side with the scientific community until solid evidence proves otherwise. Erring on the side of caution is not a bad thing when it comes to global health. After all, what's the downside of creating pathways to a low emissions future ?

I may be siding with the populist's view, but I stand beside the majority. A recent survey of 10,000 active scientists found that 98% affirmed the existence of anthropogenic climate change.

Also there's a recently released report of the International Panel on Climate Change, an agency with 195 member countries, which concludes with 95% confidence that the climate is changing, due to human activity.

One thing is for sure is that science is open to the possibility that they are wrong. Scientific integrity demands this openness: its called ?the falsifiability rule.? All that is required is scientifically compelling contrary evidence and inference. To date, there is nothing solid supporting what you say..

As I said, scientists would be queuing up to disprove this if they could. There would be far more fame and financial rewards to refute man made climate change that there is siding with the tree huggers.
 

Poupou Escobar

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Do you think global acceptance of AGW (or whatever it's called this week) would stop it, Gronk? The only price people are willing to pay is the one they can afford. The rapidly growing middle class in the third world don't want to give up their aspirations to consume resources just because some rich white tree huggers like yourself feel guilty. They want you to pay the bulk of the price for reversing AGW (as if it were possible), just like how you want 'corporations' to pay.
 
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Ok, so you have a bunch of unanswered questions before you can conclude one way or another , yet you say that all the proof you need is in the links I posted ? You seem confused. Well you've confused me anyway.

I've got enough proof to make my questions legitimate.

So do you have solid scientific evidence or is it just anecdotal ?

It's in the material you provided, which you seem to think is scientific, so...

You seem to be going with your gut and siding with the conservative minority.

No, I've look purely at the evidence and noticed a natural trend. The unexplained anthropogenic attribution appears to be a logical anomoly.

I, on the other hand, am just as concerned and will side with the scientific community until solid evidence proves otherwise.

Just accepting what you are told and not asking questions in neither rigorous nor scientific.

Erring on the side of caution is not a bad thing when it comes to global health. After all, what's the downside of creating pathways to a low emissions future ?

An increased tax burden on citizens, for one, along with the possibility (according to some) that it's a deliberate scam, possibly to construct a single world currency (Hi, Casper!)

I may be siding with the populist's view, but I stand beside the majority. A recent survey of 10,000 active scientists found that 98% affirmed the existence of anthropogenic climate change.

The majority are often wrong. Hell, our modern society proves it every day.

Also there's a recently released report of the International Panel on Climate Change, an agency with 195 member countries, which concludes with 95% confidence that the climate is changing, due to human activity.

The IPCC is said by some to be little more than a political body. Authors have spoken of being sidelined for not falling in line. The reports must be filtered through bureaucrats before being released. Not to mention they have flip-flopped on many issues (prime example: Mann's Hockeystick Graph) throughout their history.

There is much to question about the IPCC.

One thing is for sure is that science is open to the possibility that they are wrong. Scientific integrity demands this openness: its called ?the falsifiability rule.? All that is required is scientifically compelling contrary evidence and inference. To date, there is nothing solid supporting what you say..

The way dissidents are shouted down and marginalised in regards to AGW makes it seem as if this is not the case in this instance.

As I said, scientists would be queuing up to disprove this if they could.

As soon as you do you are ostracised.

There would be far more fame and financial rewards to refute man made climate change that there is siding with the tree huggers.

No, there's far more money for scientists as a whole in towing the line so you can get your research grant.

***

I'm sorry, Gronk, but it appears as if you have dropped any attempt at a scientific angle (because it didn't work) and are now just using the Ï'm going to believe what I'm told"angle, which is neither rigorous nor scientific.
 

Gronk

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Do you think global acceptance of AGW (or whatever it's called this week) would stop it, Gronk? The only price people are willing to pay is the one they can afford. The rapidly growing middle class in the third world don't want to give up their aspirations to consume resources just because some rich white tree huggers like yourself feel guilty. They want you to pay the bulk of the price for reversing AGW (as if it were possible), just like how you want 'corporations' to pay.

Why the f**k do you blatantly make shit up ? Surely you're smart enough to avoid the need of fabrication to strengthen your argument ?
 

Poupou Escobar

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As for disproving AGW, it isn't possible. The only reliable data is extremely recent. But we do know the history of the climate is a history of change. There was an ice age only ten thousand years ago, so the globe has warmed considerably over that time. What percentage of that period has been affected by human activity, and what percentage of that change is naturally occurring?

Now, I'm sure climate scientists have the answers to these questions. But I wonder if you do Gronk. And if you don't why do you trust ten thousand disgruntled, agenda driven, underemployed uni graduates?

'Climate' science lol. If you can't test something under controlled conditions it's not real science. So how can history be tested scientifically? It only ever happens once, and scientists weren't there for the start of the experiment. Absolute junk science. But it seems to be acceptable when pushing a massively popular political agenda.
 

oldmancraigy

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Position seems to be overly influenced by Hume, Pou.
Can do science apart from his philosophy (which is fairly bunk in the long run)

Although it makes this thread more interesting to read, so let's roll with it.
 

Poupou Escobar

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Why the f**k do you blatantly make shit up ? Surely you're smart enough to avoid the need of fabrication to strengthen your argument ?

The middle class absolutely do expect 'corporations' to pay for all the social change they demand. Why else would rich lefties identify with the Occupy movement? 'We are the 99%!' Of course you f**king are. You're also in the top 2%

If you're just pissy because I accused 'you' of this attitude, take solace in the fact I meant 'youse'. I don't know you or your beliefs, Gronk. I just know what you represent. Don't take it personally.
 

Gronk

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I'm sorry, Gronk, but it appears as if you have dropped any attempt at a scientific angle (because it didn't work) and are now just using the Ï'm going to believe what I'm told"angle, which is neither rigorous nor scientific.

Yet you seem to think that your position of "i've read enough to conclude" is rigorous and scientific ? Whilst I might be believing what I am told by experts in their field of academia, what qualifications or experience to you possess to accurately interpret the data that you have read (but won't post here unfortunately) ? Or are you simply a layman like the rest of us ? I don't wish to play the man here, but I am responding in like terms.

How are you "data literate" and skilled up to interpret data modelling and simulation ? Or are you relying on those who compiled the data to provide you with their conclusions ? If so, how do you know that he/she is indeed independent ?
 

Poupou Escobar

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Position seems to be overly influenced by Hume, Pou.
Can do science apart from his philosophy (which is fairly bunk in the long run)

Although it makes this thread more interesting to read, so let's roll with it.

I don't know what you're talking about but I will err on the side of caution and trust everything you say.
 

Gronk

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The middle class absolutely do expect 'corporations' to pay for all the social change they demand. Why else would rich lefties identify with the Occupy movement? 'We are the 99%!' Of course you f**king are. You're also in the top 2%

If you're just pissy because I accused 'you' of this attitude, take solace in the fact I meant 'youse'. I don't know you or your beliefs, Gronk. I just know what you represent. Don't take it personally.

I accept your apology. Thank you.
 
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This is a high stakes game for Maroubra. I little bit of warming and sea level rising may increase the value of his house. A bit more than a little bit might turn it into Botany Bay.
 
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