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The 8th Immortal

Frank_Grimes

First Grade
Messages
7,023
Yet if Joey Johns had grown up in Charters Towers, not Cessnock, a considerable number of these same people would defend him to the hilt as a "bit of a larrikin, nothing more" the way certain players are not deemed as grubs but "passionate" because of the jersey they wear 3 times a year...

If Lockyer had grown up in Yass and not Brisbane/Roma, his bar manager "crash tackle" would have been glossed over as easily as Barrett doing push-ups on the bar in his undies.

To suggest that this attitude exists in only one of the two states is nothing short of foolish.
 

drake

First Grade
Messages
5,433
One of my mates is a dyed in the wool Queenslander. His family were some of the original settlers of Mackay and have been there since. The family has been involved with the Brothers club since the early days. He was signed to the Broncos but injury ruined his career before he got to first grade. Two of his first cousins played first grade NRL. He played alongside Ben Barba's brother. He is a passionate Queensland supporter, but thankfully is a fan and student of the game.

He said that Johns is the most complete footballer he has ever seen.
Not gifted with a powerful or athletic body, the bloke just played with heart, brains and skill. Compared to other players, he's almost a dwarf, yet tackled like a front rower.

Point is, take off the maroon glasses, stop whinging about him being outted for doing what a lot of young blokes do; just admit the bloke was a brilliant footballer that didn't get a leg up from genetics.

I would have preferred Sticks Provan, but I reckon that old legend would dip his hat to Andrew Johns' passion and skill.

Ps. I think Joey is an arsehat off the field. It's the Rugby League Immortals, not Top Bloke Awards.
 
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Canard

Immortal
Messages
35,609
I think A Johns is a fantastic player and one of the best I ever saw, besides one game he never really dominated Origin as well as other have, but to snub Meninga is cleary "old boys club" mentality.

"I know a guy who played with Aaron Barba, therefore all opinions contrary to mine are null and void!!":crazy:

The whole concept has been cheapened by playing favourites.
 
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Messages
11,643
Unfortunately common sense didn't prevail in Meninga not being picked ahead of Johns.

The fact that guys like Phil Slothfield were on the voting panel suggests that the concept needs to be overhauled and taken control of by the ARLC.
 

carcharias

Immortal
Messages
43,120
Wally was a better leader IMO. Everything else between them is hard to split.

ya reckon?

club footy ( the bulk of the games played ) Johns was way better.

Wally never won a GF in NRL...he had the team to do it as well.
johns almost single handedly did it twice.
 

Rod

Bench
Messages
3,728
Congrats Joey. Best I've seen.

Also, that courier-mail link made my day :lol:. People really need to let the drug stuff go, but meh, some people will keep bringing that up forever.
 

Big Pete

Referee
Messages
29,108
carcharias said:
Wally never won a GF in NRL...he had the team to do it as well.

Wally didn't get much of a chance. Only had one season before he was beset by injury during crucial periods that prevented him from really making an impact on the NSWRL. That left him only the Broncos maiden season, which is when we learned how much a large Origin representation can take it's toll on a club.

Fair to say Joey was better for the week to week competition but I wouldn't say Lewis wasn't good at week to week League because he played BRL.
 

undertaker

Coach
Messages
10,975
Mal wasn't even the best player in his side. Ricky Stuart, Laurie Daley and Bradley Clyde were all ahead of him

Wally didn't get much of a chance. Only had one season before he was beset by injury during crucial periods that prevented him from really making an impact on the NSWRL. That left him only the Broncos maiden season, which is when we learned how much a large Origin representation can take it's toll on a club.

Fair to say Joey was better for the week to week competition but I wouldn't say Lewis wasn't good at week to week League because he played BRL.

So how do you explain Lewis' two wooden spoons he got in his last two years (1991-92), playing in a Gold Coast Seagulls side that only won a paltry 8 out of 44 matches during his time there?

And as a Knights supporter, I agree with the previous poster: Johns was the better player week-in week-out. HOWEVER, although Johns performances in S.O.O II and III 2005 gives Lewis 1989 S.O.O. performance at the SFS a run for its money, I will not dispute anyone - especially QLD supporters - who says that overall, Lewis was the better player in the rep matches.
 
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Big Pete

Referee
Messages
29,108
He went to a club that should never have existed at the time.

They were competitive the Seagulls, but like Parra in '11, just always seemed to lose a lot of close games.
 

undertaker

Coach
Messages
10,975
Another point that works in Johns favour (and this is not Lewis' fault, as he just happened to be born and played in the era he did) is that Johns competed against not just the best of the best, but also the fittest. Lewis was playing in an era when 90+% of players were semi-professional and had 2nd jobs outside of RL. Only the elite players like Sterlo earnt enough money to play RL full-time. As a consequence of this semi-professionalism, the players back then weren't as skillful and definitely weren't as fit as they are today. I was reading an article somewhere on the early history of the Newcastle Knights and I laughed when I read that during the 1988 pre-season training, their coach Alan McMahon made the players run 10km along some beach in Newcastle. That was considered "adequate training" back in those days. Oh, how much training techniques and methods have changed since then

When I watch highlights of matches from the '70s and '80s, I laugh when ppl say the players were more skillful back then. They weren't. It was very much "bash and barge" back in those days, and rarely did you see the scintillating plays that we've been accustomed to see this era from players like Benji Marshall, Billy Slater, Jarryd Hayne etc.

Johns has played in an era where 90+% are full-time professionals and train 5-6 days/week. As a result, the game is much more tougher and even if you are naturally talented, you will not get far if your fitness is not up to standard. That's not to say that Lewis is not a good player (I already made reference to his 1989 S.O.O. performance). Although Lewis was not the fittest player (I heard a rumour he used to smoke whilst on the sideline, dunno if that's true), I still think he would've done reasonably well if he was playing in today's game. However, most of the players from Lewis era would not last in the game today as they were well below fitness.
 
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undertaker

Coach
Messages
10,975
He went to a club that should never have existed at the time.

They were competitive the Seagulls, but like Parra in '11, just always seemed to lose a lot of close games.

So, do you think the Seagulls side of '93 - coached by Lewis - was better than the Parra side of '11, even though they only won one game all year (against my side, and coincidentially it was Joey's debut IIRC) but lost several close matches?
 

Canard

Immortal
Messages
35,609
Another point that works in Johns favour (and this is not Lewis' fault, as he just happened to be born and played in the era he did) is that Johns competed against not just the best of the best, but also the fittest. Lewis was playing in an era when 90+% of players were semi-professional and had 2nd jobs outside of RL. Only the elite players like Sterlo earnt enough money to play RL full-time. As a consequence of this semi-professionalism, the players back then weren't as skillful and definitely weren't as fit as they are today. I was reading an article somewhere on the early history of the Newcastle Knights and I laughed when I read that during the 1988 pre-season training, their coach Alan McMahon made the players run 10km along some beach in Newcastle. That was considered "adequate training" back in those days. Oh, how much training techniques and methods have changed since then

When I watch highlights of matches from the '70s and '80s, I laugh when ppl say the players were more skillful back then. They weren't. It was very much "bash and barge" back in those days, and rarely did you see the scintillating plays that we've been accustomed to see this era from players like Benji Marshall, Billy Slater, Jarryd Hayne etc.

Johns has played in an era where 90+% are full-time professionals and train 5-6 days/week. As a result, the game is much more tougher and even if you are naturally talented, you will not get far if your fitness is not up to standard. That's not to say that Lewis is not a good player (I already made reference to his 1989 S.O.O. performance). Although Lewis was not the fittest player (I heard a rumour he used to smoke whilst on the sideline, dunno if that's true), I still think he would've done reasonably well if he was playing in today's game. However, most of the players from Lewis era would not last in the game today as they were well below fitness.

This isn't Lewis v Johns debate, but to extrapolate your argument people could say the same about Johns in 10 years time (that's the type of gap you are describing).

Im getting old when Gen Yers on here, consider the 1980's and 90's to be "the old days".

Did you ever watch Dale Shearer, Cliffy Lyons, Gary Belcher, Brett Mullins, Phil Blake, Greg Alexander. They could all do the things Slater, Hayne and Marshall could do.
 

THE CHAMP

First Grade
Messages
8,359
This isn't Lewis v Johns debate, but to extrapolate your argument people could say the same about Johns in 10 years time (that's the type of gap you are describing).

Im getting old when Gen Yers on here, consider the 1980's and 90's to be "the old days".

Did you ever watch Dale Shearer, Cliffy Lyons, Gary Belcher, Brett Mullins, Phil Blake, Greg Alexander. They could all do the things Slater, Hayne and Marshall could do.

Nagas,Renouf,ET ect ect
 

Snoochies

First Grade
Messages
5,633
Alot of the comments made n the CM site are raving how he was a drug cheat, and that he needed those drugs so he could function and play. Wonder if they hold the same standard towards his Bi-Polar medication as well, because no doubt he needed them to function and play.
 

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