The Freshen Up Worked Wonders.

[boxhead]

I called him a 'talentless hack' and you replied that we were 'useless hacks'. I assumed we were 'useless hacks' because we have been bagging Morts, which was insulting our opinion.
So that's why I insulted your opinion, plus I thought my insult was funny.
Whether or not it was is a matter of opinion.;-)


While I still don't think he is talented.
I have said it before and will say it again, Morts would look better with a more dominant organising partner. Robson is a back up, nothing more.
If Morts had a Prince, Thurston or Cronk type of player next to him he wouldn't look as bad, but most players would look ok next to them.

We haven't got one of those players, so we needed more from Morts, and he hasn't been able to give us more, and it stands out like a sore thumb.

Most other halves-5/8s that enter the comp have some sort of passing or kicking game but Morts doesn't have either.

Hehehehe yeah I get it now I was joking as well, but just saying like, it's not a nice thing to say heh.

I think someone mentioned it in another post, Mortimer, Kris and Humble are players that need to be paired with a dominant half, like many five-eighths are, which is definitely true. The problem with us moving Mortimer to five-eighth was that it worked initially, then it failed horribly; it was a spark, but it was a bad decision because he has no halfback skills whatsoever.

The way I see it is that if you do pair him with even a young halfback who can at least control a game, like Brad Murray will definitely provide (he will probably provide a lot more; some are touting him as the next big thing), then his game goes to a whole new level. It's like with the Billy Slater and Cooper Cronk combination; if Slater played without a decent halfback, he would definitely struggle, because he isn't a noted playmaker. It's the same with Mortimer (although Morts is a five-eighth of course) and Humble and Kris.

I think he can offer us something if someone else controls the game, because if he is allowed to do what he wants or is told what to do by a halfback, uses what he's got and runs the ball, supports the kicker and what-not, he could very well go to a whole new level. His heart and toughness are worthy attributes to at least make him a good defender, and he is very fast off the mark; perhaps he is suited more to hooker?

 

[boxhead]

Something interesting I found out, you know how early in the season people were calling for our halves combo of 6. Mortimer 7. Robson to change?

In our four wins winning-streak, and yes I checked our official team lists for those games, the run was started by Daniel Mortimer playing halfback :shock:
That's confusing.........
I definitely agree he is no halfback, but I look at the match reports and they all talk about the try-assists he came up with; his pin-point kick that led to Luke Burt's try (where he outran Rhys Wesser), his offload which led to him getting an offload to score, etc.

That's very strange....four weeks where we ground out good hard wins and were playing well generally, and it was all sparked by Mortimer at halfback. :shock:
I'm really confused now....and no I am not implying he has any halfback skills :?
It's just very strange, you have to admit.

I am looking at Mortimer's stats for that four wins winning streak, and I found out something interesting.
In the first two games, he had a few try assists and line-break assists, more so than any of the other players, but he did less running and tackling than what he usually does.
However, everyone says his best game in that streak was against the Bulldogs, where he had no try or line-break assists, yet he tackled and ran a lot more :?
Then again, stats don't generally tell the truth of anything.....

 

[jk13]

the main issue is morts price. blame the dogs and his manager.

 

[boxhead]

the main issue is morts price. blame the dogs and his manager.

:lol:
LMAO!!!!

 

[mrpwnd]

I'm referring to his little grubber and chip-kicks for himself, and also for other players when he is away from the goal-line.

What's the point of little grubber/chip-kicks if he has neither the pace nor the skills to back them up himself i.e being able to offload to another player in the off-chance he catches it. The only time it paid off was in the cronulla game and that has got to be his most luckiest moment of this season. Okay, he can put in grubbers, but i'd rather he do it in the op. 20 so we get a proper line drop out.

I have a very good memory of last year, and I remember a lot of tries were scored either by him or set up by him because of his short-kicking, i.e. kicking for himself when nothing is on.

My memory of last year was that he hardly set up any tries...If having a great offload from Hayne last year and having the common sense to pass/run yourself in open space is considered a great try assist then that'll do me.

his unpredictability.

That's not really unpredictable, teams just generally expect a first grade standard half to play better so they overestimate him.

He's on a lucrative deal with us, we won't let him sit in Wenty for any extended period of time, so what do you think he should do to get his form back?

Even more reason for him to go to Wenty and clear his head. A season isn't worth the money he's on, so continuing to have him there at the expense of the team because of his contract is stupid. We f**ked up on his contract and we decided to f**k up the whole season by continuing to persist with him/KK/Robson as our halves.

 

[boxhead]

What's the point of little grubber/chip-kicks if he has neither the pace nor the skills to back them up himself i.e being able to offload to another player in the off-chance he catches it. The only time it paid off was in the cronulla game and that has got to be his most luckiest moment of this season. Okay, he can put in grubbers, but i'd rather he do it in the op. 20 so we get a proper line drop out.



My memory of last year was that he hardly set up any tries...If having a great offload from Hayne last year and having the common sense to pass/run yourself in open space is considered a great try assist then that'll do me.



That's not really unpredictable, teams just generally expect a first grade standard half to play better so they overestimate him.



Even more reason for him to go to Wenty and clear his head. A season isn't worth the money he's on, so continuing to have him there at the expense of the team because of his contract is stupid. We f**ked up on his contract and we decided to f**k up the whole season by continuing to persist with him/KK/Robson as our halves.

The main problem is mate, is that we have no-one else to turn to.
Even oldmancraigy, a person who I remember was all for Mortimer being dropped earlier in the season, said that Mortimer was our only hope.
Mortimer should have been kept at five-eighth, but who else could we put at halfback? We lost three in a row early in the season and everyone said a change was needed, we moved Morts to 7 and Robson to the bench and we won four straight.
I know what you are going to say, that Humble should have been halfback, but I doubt we would be in any better position.
You can't blame Mortimer for being our only hope when he never had the skills of a halfback, and no-one else at our club does.
We have done the right thing by actually getting a halfback, one that is a young start (Brad Murray), but you can't blame Mortimer for our lack of halfbacks, you can blame management for letting all of our young halfbacks go.

 

[mrpwnd]

Humble is better, therefore he should've been chosen. This 'we don't have halves' is rubbish, Humbles been there all this time waiting to get a few more cracks at first grade, all the while watching Mortimer have a season-ending shocker.

 

[boxhead]

Humble is better, therefore he should've been chosen. This 'we don't have halves' is rubbish, Humbles been there all this time waiting to get a few more cracks at first grade, all the while watching Mortimer have a season-ending shocker.

I don't think you understand what I meant, I said that we have no halfbacks, and Humble is only a marginally better option than Mortimer, and was probably too big a risk in Anderson's eyes.

However, Mortimer was as big a risk at halfback in my opinion.
If Mortimer was five-eighth the whole year, we wouldn't be blaming him now would we?

Also, I don't get the Humble hype, all he has shown in his debut games is that he is a solid utility. The best he has shown is still worse than Mortimer's best this season, Humble would have struggled equally or even worse because the kid is 1. too young and 2. barely touched first-grade.
I think Humble will develop into a talented first-grader utility, but he has shown nothing at all to suggest he should replace Mortimer.

 

[foreel]

Humble is better, therefore he should've been chosen. This 'we don't have halves' is rubbish, Humbles been there all this time waiting to get a few more cracks at first grade, all the while watching Mortimer have a season-ending shocker.

The two best halves in QLD cup last year were Trent Hodkinson and Tom Humble. One guy was given a fair crack by his club and has become one of the best young halves in the NRL, the other guy was given 119 minutes.

 

[boxhead]

The two best halves in QLD cup last year were Trent Hodkinson and Tom Humble. One guy was given a fair crack by his club and has become one of the best young halves in the NRL, the other guy was given 119 minutes.

Yeah good point.
However, some players debut well or make the shift to first-grade easier.
That's the principle difference between the two, plus Manly were lacking a halfback and therefore had to play Hodkinson.

I agree though that Humble should have been given more chances, earlier.

 

[bartman]

As for the four game winning streak with Morts in the #7, don't forget a lot of the time when he played in #7, he wasn't always/often getting the ball first off the ruck (ie wasn't always really playing halfback). It became obvious during the year that Robson and KK were the "go to" players when an option was needed, and they were the true halfbacks, even though Morts got to wear the jersey.

Personally, I think it might have had something to do with marketing, or a club sponsorship deal? Something DA didn't have a choice over, until the season was almost over and he finally got to dr... er, "rest" Morts, and then bring him back in his proper jersey.

 

[boxhead]

As for the four game winning streak with Morts in the #7, don't forget a lot of the time when he played in #7, he wasn't always/often getting the ball first off the ruck (ie wasn't always really playing halfback). It became obvious during the year that Robson and KK were the "go to" players when an option was needed, and they were the true halfbacks, even though Morts got to wear the jersey.

Personally, I think it might have had something to do with marketing, or a club sponsorship deal? Something DA didn't have a choice over, until the season was almost over and he finally got to dr... er, "rest" Morts, and then bring him back in his proper jersey.

Yeah true.
However, I did sort of get the inclination that he was taking on some roles he didn't take on last year, and I think it has hampered him really badly
Feel sorry for the kid, he's been terrible this year but he is many people's scapegoat for the reason we have done so badly this year (the real culprit is inconsistency).

 

[eels bloke]

Very ordinary if marketing was getting in the way of selections and the specific number a player wears on the back of his jersey.

 

[Eelementary]

why is it that every mortimer fan's first defence statement they use is always gives 100% effort. When you have no basic tallent apart from trying hard & backing up well. He does not have the basic skill set to succeed. Its a shame he is not taller or about 15 kilos heavier other wise he would make the perfect lock. Stick him in the mmiddle & defend. Llike a luck or wagon.

Look at his games last year. He never once put a player thru a gap. A 5/8 last i ckecked is also a link to the backline & not a put it under your arm & run player.

He stould out because teams did not know what to expect. This year he really got found out to be a imposter

Because people like yourself whinge and bitch about players NOT putting in. Mortimer ALWAYS has a dig. And for a young bloke getting smashed on and off the field I find that admirable, that he just dusts himself off and keeps going.

 

[Eelementary]

I agree, Smith would make a good captain. He'd rev them up when he needed to.

I think that has been one of the teams problems since Cayless was made captain, and maybe one of the reasons why the team has looked mentally weak for the last 10 years. When we were playing crap and needed a rev up in goal or something Cayless just didn't look like he was really giving it to them. Sometimes after a try you'd be think he'd be into them in the in goal but he wasn't even talking, he was just standing there watching the kick attempt.

Brian Smith made him captain because he was respected by his young team mates when we had that really young team. There is a difference between having the respect of people and being an on field leader and captain.


+1
Morts is a talentless hack, which is obvious because his supporters are using the same terms that were used for Finch......'tries hard' 'has ticker' 'always gives 100%' 'tough for his size' etc. etc.
We could sign up a number of park footballers that would fit those same descriptions.

True, but then by that logic Mark Riddell would have been our perfect captain.

Cayless may not have been a man of words, but the respect was there - remember the blow-up in-goal between Riddell and another player (maybe Hindy)? All Caylo had to do was touch Riddell's arm and he STFU. He is a man he commands respect, whether fans can see that or not.

 

[Eelementary]

The two best halves in QLD cup last year were Trent Hodkinson and Tom Humble. One guy was given a fair crack by his club and has become one of the best young halves in the NRL, the other guy was given 119 minutes.

For the first half of the season, yes. Manly's true guns are Jamie Lyon and Kieran Foran.

 

[Schiltzenberger]

True, but then by that logic Mark Riddell would have been our perfect captain.

Cayless may not have been a man of words, but the respect was there - remember the blow-up in-goal between Riddell and another player (maybe Hindy)? All Caylo had to do was touch Riddell's arm and he STFU. He is a man he commands respect, whether fans can see that or not.

That's what I was getting at though.
The players do respect him, and will shut up and listen to him. I just think he may have been lacking in what he was saying, or how he was saying it. He couldn't inspire the team to better performances the way some other captains can.

Look at say Fittler and Johns, well most of the halves captains, not only did they have their team's respect, they could also captain the team. They could bark tactics at their team on the fly, I can't see Cayless doing that. He'd probably say the basic things like 'get to the kick' and 'complete our sets', but I couldn't imagine him telling the halves to target certain areas/players etc.
I think our team gets their tactics for the game from Ando but are left to their own devices when on the field, when the tactic fails they don't know what to do. When Johns, Fittler and Lockyer type captains are there they can change the gameplan while on the field.

But again, this comes back to our lack of decent halves. If we had a dominant half or 5/8 Cayless probably could get by, leaving the halves to lead the team while he just barks orders. So with our current halves we've needed a tactical or inspirational captain, Cayless is neither.

 

[Eelementary]

That's what I was getting at though.
The players do respect him, and will shut up and listen to him. I just think he may have been lacking in what he was saying, or how he was saying it. He couldn't inspire the team to better performances the way some other captains can.

Look at say Fittler and Johns, well most of the halves captains, not only did they have their team's respect, they could also captain the team. They could bark tactics at their team on the fly, I can't see Cayless doing that. He'd probably say the basic things like 'get to the kick' and 'complete our sets', but I couldn't imagine him telling the halves to target certain areas/players etc.
I think our team gets their tactics for the game from Ando but are left to their own devices when on the field, when the tactic fails they don't know what to do. When Johns, Fittler and Lockyer type captains are there they can change the gameplan while on the field.

But again, this comes back to our lack of decent halves. If we had a dominant half or 5/8 Cayless probably could get by, leaving the halves to lead the team while he just barks orders. So with our current halves we've needed a tactical or inspirational captain, Cayless is neither.

You make some valid points.

But just on the targeting weaknesses thing - Friday night there was an injury and the Rabbitoh player couldn't come off the field yet. We has a scrum. Reddy was screaming at the guys to throw the ball to him and Inu so they could target this injured bloke. We went left...

Not sure why, but there's some issues there and I'm not sure a change of skipper will help.

 

[boxhead]

You make some valid points.

But just on the targeting weaknesses thing - Friday night there was an injury and the Rabbitoh player couldn't come off the field yet. We has a scrum. Reddy was screaming at the guys to throw the ball to him and Inu so they could target this injured bloke. We went left...

Not sure why, but there's some issues there and I'm not sure a change of skipper will help.

Yeah, I saw that, when we went the other way I was :shock: Honestly, something was very wrong with us that night.

 

[spartan2153]

You make some valid points.

But just on the targeting weaknesses thing - Friday night there was an injury and the Rabbitoh player couldn't come off the field yet. We has a scrum. Reddy was screaming at the guys to throw the ball to him and Inu so they could target this injured bloke. We went left...

Not sure why, but there's some issues there and I'm not sure a change of skipper will help.

well who ever fed the scrum is at fault there. That is why you will never be able to teach a player to have vision