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The Knights last 4 weeks.

Shorty

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
15,555
I don't know, I feel like the issues the Knights have with TPA compared to 'larger' clubs is over stated.

To me they're crap because their management is crap, you can put as many top name players as you want in that team but they will still not perform if the rest of the club is not up to scratch.

This isn't a unique issue, there are teams in the NBA and the NFL that struggle for years and years without any sort of finals berth.

I'm from Townsville, you have any idea how boring that place is and not to mention HOT, yet there are players rumoured to be taking pay cuts to stay there.
To me it's management.
 

macavity

Referee
Messages
20,638
Like science, the thing about economic principles is they are true whether you believe them or not.

Love it how everyone is an expert on our management in here.
 
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11,611
I can understand you feel a bit disenfranchised and disillusioned as a result. However, your plight is really no different to the plight of other smaller clubs when they've been in tough spots.

It's human nature to not look within and rather blame external forces for one's woes - hell Raiders fans were all doing it not too long ago. As were Sharks fans. As were Cowboys fans.

Your club has been poorly run for a number of years and the "fruits" have now fully come to bear. That by and large is a problem caused by your club itself and one that you yourselves should be fixing.
 

Shorty

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
15,555
Like science, the thing about economic principles is they are true whether you believe them or not.

Love it how everyone is an expert on our management in here.
What makes Newcastle distinctly disadvantaged over Canberra, NZ or NQ?
 

Noname36

First Grade
Messages
7,067
Oh FFS Mac you're taking the whinging too far. Yes the Knights have big disadvantages but it is what it is and always has been. We're the rabble we are at the moment because of some terrible roster and cap management decisions stemming from the Bennett/Tinkler period. It was never going to end well signing all those older players and then putting other average/injury prone players on large long-term contracts so we had no space left to replace Dad's army. It was never going to end well and we're seeing the effects of it now. We'll get past it though - the club always does.

We're no more disadvantaged than a club like the Raiders TPA wise but they've been managing to buy players left, right and centre (NQ are obviously in a different situation with JT though I agree with you there). We're obviously never going to have it like the Dogs, Brisbane, Roosters, Souths, etc but not many clubs do and we were generally managing okay on the field pre Bennett/Tinkler fallout. Not spectacular but I'd take it in a heartbeat over where we are currently.
 
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Rod

Bench
Messages
3,726
What's happening with us at the moment is basically a perfect storm of things that can go wrong with a team. You can't blame just one thing. TPA's are an issue sure but that's just one factor combined with the Bennett/Tinkler empire falling apart, some poor current contracts, injuries (a lot of epople seem to be forgetting we have a lot of quality and cap sitting on the sidelines).

TPA's are only an issue insofar as we are usually unable to keep our talented juniors because no dispensation comes from the NRL for doing so. Mullen has played in our system for a million years, why do we have to pay him his full worth under the salary cap? As soon as someone like Sione Matautia comes on the scene another club can swoop in and have the same bargaining chips as the team who developed him. That's a bigger issue than TPA's for me.
 

macavity

Referee
Messages
20,638
Oh FFS Mac you're taking the whinging too far. Yes the Knights have big disadvantages but it is what it is and always has been. We're the rabble we are at the moment because of some terrible roster and cap management decisions stemming from the Bennett/Tinkler period. It was never going to end well signing all those older players and then putting other average/injury prone players on large long-term contracts so we had no space left to replace Dad's army. It was never going to end well and we're seeing the effects of it now. We'll get past it though - the club always does.

We're no more disadvantaged than a club like the Raiders TPA wise but they've been managing to buy players left, right and centre (NQ are obviously in a different situation with JT though I agree with you there). We're obviously never going to have it like the Dogs, Brisbane, Roosters, Souths, etc but not many clubs do and we were generally managing okay on the field pre Bennett/Tinkler fallout. Not spectacular but I'd take it in a heartbeat over where we are currently.

You do realise how many leagues clubs the Raiders have?

And I don't see how I am "whinging". Trying to explain facts is not "whinging".
 

Noname36

First Grade
Messages
7,067
You do realise how many leagues clubs the Raiders have?

And I don't see how I am "whinging". Trying to explain facts is not "whinging".

The Raiders are a wealthy club. However doesn't mean they'd find it easy obtaining much extra from outside the cap in Canberra.
 

Noname36

First Grade
Messages
7,067
What's happening with us at the moment is basically a perfect storm of things that can go wrong with a team. You can't blame just one thing. TPA's are an issue sure but that's just one factor combined with the Bennett/Tinkler empire falling apart, some poor current contracts, injuries (a lot of epople seem to be forgetting we have a lot of quality and cap sitting on the sidelines).

TPA's are only an issue insofar as we are usually unable to keep our talented juniors because no dispensation comes from the NRL for doing so. Mullen has played in our system for a million years, why do we have to pay him his full worth under the salary cap? As soon as someone like Sione Matautia comes on the scene another club can swoop in and have the same bargaining chips as the team who developed him. That's a bigger issue than TPA's for me.

Good post mate - my thoughts exactly. It's basically been a culmination of a lot of things going wrong. I do think that TPA issue has played a part but it's not the only thing going on here.

Sione is actually a really good example. The Dogs are able to throw a crapload of money at him and his brothers because they have access to a lot of funds outside of the cap - throwing that kind of money around to players is doable for them because it won't eat up too much of their cap. Then the Knights of course wanting to hold onto some of their investments end up having to pay them more money to keep them than they'd like and it eats up a lot of salary cap because we don't have money outside of it.

I don't think capping TPAs is the answer but the NRL at the very least need to help clubs at least have the opportunity to keep players they've developed. If not why bother developing to begin with so another club can poach them as soon as they reach FG?
 

macavity

Referee
Messages
20,638
The Raiders are a wealthy club. However doesn't mean they'd find it easy obtaining much extra from outside the cap in Canberra.

You would be amazed how many services a big leagues club requires - security, produce, meat, alcohol, accounting, pokies... The list goes on. Pretty widely known how the "good" clubs leverage their supply agreements.

Wests could do the same for us.

Look at the Knights major sponsor - Newpave. They get literally nothing from sponsoring us. They don't sell anything to the public. At most clubs they would be TPA, and a national customer facing company would be sponsor. Why don't we have a major sponsor like that?

LOL bad management doesn't count as an answer - it simply isn't any sort of relevant answer. our current board are probably one of the more accomplished NRL boards from top to bottom.

And even when we were a "chook raffle" pre-Tinkler we had one of the more accomplished CEOs running the joint in Steve Burruston, who took the gig for love. We also had a sponsor in C&A who again sell nothing to the public.

If it was as simple as LOL Matt Gidley... Don't you think the NRL would have moved him on?

We have more sponsorship revenue than 12 other clubs - running last, with a major sponsor who are basically making a donation.

There is something else going on, and it has been for a long time. We are a low income, unfashionable town. We have 3 national companies headquartered here, 2 of which are major sponsors (2 banks, so the other is a competitor of one of the sponsors). We have tapped out our local sponsor market. Probably a first step is thE NRL (our owners, remember) pointing a proper major sponsor our way - allowing a lot of our sponsors to become TPAs instead). That is if they aren't going to fix the system.

Another whinge I guess 😐
 
Messages
3,000
This thread makes us sound super whiney. I realise everything that could go wrong probably has gone wrong but I don't subscribe to the view we can never compete. It may take a while but some of the teams at the top have had bad periods in the last 10 years.

If money was everything the Broncos would win every year.
 

macavity

Referee
Messages
20,638
Mac, you run a successful business. Why don't you stump up money for a TPA?

I'm only 5 years in. I don't have enough spare cash to make any real difference right now... A few of the boys are customers though might have to make an offer when one of them is worth keeping!
 

Frederick

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
27,633
I'm only 5 years in. I don't have enough spare cash to make any real difference right now... A few of the boys are customers though might have to make an offer when one of them is worth keeping!

5 years in and three stores already...not doing too bad...

I know the Saifitis have just extended to 2018, but make them an offer for life. Right now.
 

Shorty

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
15,555
You would be amazed how many services a big leagues club requires - security, produce, meat, alcohol, accounting, pokies... The list goes on. Pretty widely known how the "good" clubs leverage their supply agreements.

Wests could do the same for us.

Look at the Knights major sponsor - Newpave. They get literally nothing from sponsoring us. They don't sell anything to the public. At most clubs they would be TPA, and a national customer facing company would be sponsor. Why don't we have a major sponsor like that?

LOL bad management doesn't count as an answer - it simply isn't any sort of relevant answer. our current board are probably one of the more accomplished NRL boards from top to bottom.

And even when we were a "chook raffle" pre-Tinkler we had one of the more accomplished CEOs running the joint in Steve Burruston, who took the gig for love. We also had a sponsor in C&A who again sell nothing to the public.

If it was as simple as LOL Matt Gidley... Don't you think the NRL would have moved him on?

We have more sponsorship revenue than 12 other clubs - running last, with a major sponsor who are basically making a donation.

There is something else going on, and it has been for a long time. We are a low income, unfashionable town. We have 3 national companies headquartered here, 2 of which are major sponsors (2 banks, so the other is a competitor of one of the sponsors). We have tapped out our local sponsor market. Probably a first step is thE NRL (our owners, remember) pointing a proper major sponsor our way - allowing a lot of our sponsors to become TPAs instead). That is if they aren't going to fix the system.

Another whinge I guess ��

Sorry that sh*t isnt going to wash with me, perhaps fly yourself up to the north to see the state of jobs, real estate and life up there.
You continue to act like Newcastle's issues are only faced by that region alone and sorry, they are not.

You're entitled to your opinion but don't belittle people for thinking differently.
 
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