The Latest in Coaching Musical Chairs - NRL Style...

[Blues Riff]

Sorry, not sure if your question here. Are you asking who might be turned away or players that have left prior to the end of their deals? If it’s the latter, CHN, Peachey (I think don’t hold me to that), Latu, Cartwright, Moylan, TMM. I know there were potentially other things at play that meant some of those players had to move on but it’s a fair list of talent.

I can't speak for Umina Panther but what I'm wondering is who you think we are paying to play elsewhere. As far as I know none of those on your list. An impressive list,yes, but that's the result of producing so many first graders. Our most promising players are given long contracts, fair but not excessive. They also have the option to seek a better deal with the club's blessing. The result is a squad of happy players who want to play for us. The one's who do leave for the most part, do so reluctantly. We are sad to lose them, and like Gus, may shed a little tear for them.
My Telegraph comment was in referrence to your earlier post (#67). The whole rant seems to be based on unsourced tabloid journalism and rumours.
How much of this recent news has come from verified sources? None. Everyone's on holidays. What we actually know is -
We had the Panthers (Gould) confirm that Ivan had had informal discussions with his mate O'niell regarding returning to Penrith years down the track.
We heard the WT management state that Ivan had not requested, nor would be granted an early release from his current contract.
Then we had Ivan stating that he would honour his WT contract.
That was all weeks ago. Everthing since has been unsourced rumours and reports on things that are "understood"and "believed". Then they recycle the bullshit with - "It has been reported".
It's all great fun for those who want to put the boot into Ivan, Gould and Penrith, but at the moment it's nothing but clickbait for idiots.

 

[Vic Mackey]

What's Tim Sheens up to? Mbye has bench backrower written all over him and there is a gun 5/8 in Alex Twal just waiting to be unleashed.

Don’t even joke...just don’t

 

[The Brain Stormer]

Ivan seems like a gutless piece of shit. Says he’s committed to the Tigers for the remainder of his contract then bails, joins the club who sacked him just to coach his spoilt brat of a son. It just stinks, bad enough players bailing half way through, we certainly don’t need coaches doing the same thing.

 

[big hit!]

Ivan seems like a gutless piece of shit. Says he’s committed to the Tigers for the remainder of his contract then bails, joins the club who sacked him just to coach his spoilt brat of a son. It just stinks, bad enough players bailing half way through, we certainly don’t need coaches doing the same thing.

This.

It's now generally accepted (although I don't like it at all) that players can continue playing at their incumbent club after having signed an agreement to play elsewhere the following season. It's just the mercenary culture that has existed among players in rugby league for ever and a day.

But to have one of the most important figures in your organisation do it? The person who has influence on recruitment, player development, strategy, etc at the club? It f**king stinks and is yet another aspect of this sport that makes it a joke to folks on the outside.

Even a club such as Brisbane already announcing that Bennett will not be their coach after 2019 season is just shit business from a club regarded as one of the most professional in the game, If they had a succession plan, then maybe it wouldn't be so bad as the 2IC would be there to work on the longer term strategy. But in reality, Bennett is only going to have a myopic view in his remaining time at the Broncos.

If Cleary does make an agreement now with Penrith to take over once his Wests contract expires, then his time at Wests is certainly untenable. Wests must ensure that they get compensated by Penrith and/or Cleary (obviously Penrith will pay for it). You're dealing with humans and you can't expect a bloke to be totally invested in the organisation, and expect his subordinates to give him the authority, if it's known he'll be out the door to the next joint.

And it'll be proven that Ivan Cleary is not a coach, but still an immature 20-something player. Great bloke to lead your club.

Give me a Trent Robinson (prick - respect from a SOuths fan) any day

 

[Iafeta]

I can't speak for Umina Panther but what I'm wondering is who you think we are paying to play elsewhere. As far as I know none of those on your list. An impressive list,yes, but that's the result of producing so many first graders. Our most promising players are given long contracts, fair but not excessive. They also have the option to seek a better deal with the club's blessing. The result is a squad of happy players who want to play for us. The one's who do leave for the most part, do so reluctantly. We are sad to lose them, and like Gus, may shed a little tear for them.
My Telegraph comment was in referrence to your earlier post (#67). The whole rant seems to be based on unsourced tabloid journalism and rumours.
How much of this recent news has come from verified sources? None. Everyone's on holidays. What we actually know is -
We had the Panthers (Gould) confirm that Ivan had had informal discussions with his mate O'niell regarding returning to Penrith years down the track.
We heard the WT management state that Ivan had not requested, nor would be granted an early release from his current contract.
Then we had Ivan stating that he would honour his WT contract.
That was all weeks ago. Everthing since has been unsourced rumours and reports on things that are "understood"and "believed". Then they recycle the bullshit with - "It has been reported".
It's all great fun for those who want to put the boot into Ivan, Gould and Penrith, but at the moment it's nothing but clickbait for idiots.

Typically when a player leaves before their contract is due they seek a release, in which case if granted that wouldn’t count under the cap. It may be the case for the aforementioned. If not, and the player is moved on via the club, they would pay a portion of the cost under the salary cap.

The question is how much of each is occurring.

In relation to signing long term deals with young players, that’s good, but if they theoretically started to not see those contracts out at the behest of the club, they’d start to lose trust in the player market for sure.

My point more though is there seems to be a higher proportion of Penrith contracts that end short of their term. If club A offers player X 4 years, and Penrith offers 4 years, player X in the future if that trend keeps up is better going to Club A.

 

[Life's Good]

I doubt that Ivan has a full appreciation for the corner he's painted himself into now...in interviews he will never again be able to use the words commitment..loyalty...honesty...there won't be an interviewer besides Guss's ch 9/ mmm/ ex panther bootlickers who will keep a straight face. He certainly will never be taken seriously again when he assures anyone of anything...won't be able to talk about what team values or passion mean to him as it will just ring hollow. He waited 2 weeks to tell the Tigers that he'd been talking to Guss's agents behind their back ...his and Guss's word means absolutely nothing anymore....you make your bed you sleep in it. Have a joyous romance fellas

I like your take on this. One of my very good mates is a Tigers fan & when news of this first broke a couple of months ago he was adamant the Tigers should flick IC because any currency around loyalty etc. lost all value.
From a Panthers perspective you’d have to think anything less than a premiership in his first year back is a failure given the sh*t storm this will create. If not, would it spell the end of Gus?

 

[Tommy Smith]

I like your take on this. One of my very good mates is a Tigers fan & when news of this first broke a couple of months ago he was adamant the Tigers should flick IC because any currency around loyalty etc. lost all value.
From a Panthers perspective you’d have to think anything less than a premiership in his first year back is a failure given the sh*t storm this will create. If not, would it spell the end of Gus?

I think that's too simplistic. As always injuries must be taken into account.

But lets say that they have a filly fit squad come finals then at the very least they have to go one step further and make a Prelim.

They've become finals wk 2 specialists the past three years; without ever looking like a legitmate title threat.

Ideally they'd want to make a GF but again it's more complex than that. If they run into a white hot Roosters team in a Prelim and lose a nail biter then it'd be harsh to put that down as a failure when on paper they're not yet in the Roosters class (and whilstever they have 1.5m tied up in two way past their prime overrated props then they'll struggle to get there. Those shocking deals are on Gus btw, not Ivan).

 

[Bring back John Fifita]

What a difference a few months makes. Both the Cleary's were lauded doing great things for their clubs in different ways.

Ivan (finally) resurrecting the mighty Tigers to a competitive force after all their dramas over the last few years. And Nathan part of a Panthers Team that for a while had performed ok and potential to win a comp - that now seemed to finally have clicked and were leading the comp for a time..

Roll forward to now and, well, here we are..

What a shame. I don't see any winners in this if it pans out as it's looking. Ivan going back to the Panthers would/will put a biblical force of pressure on both the Cleary's - one still in his teens.

 

[TheEroticGamer]

on paper they're not yet in the Roosters class

Two points ahead of the team having to deal with injuries all year and had Griffin as their coach. "not yet in the Roosters class" lmao.

 

[big hit!]

I would prefer they went for a new age coach, But that is not going to happen, sponsors and fans get nervous. So I guess they will try and land the biggest fish they can hook. I guess at least a bloke like Bennett will not preach things like culture, on the bus etc and than white ant the club

I don't get how Tigers figures (backdoor, Blocker, etc) are getting excited about Bennett.

I know Tigers have been burned with coaches, but the club allowed players to run the joint. IMO, going back to Marshall and Farah isn't a step in the right direction. Now the word is they're considering Bennett. Does anyone with two brain cells think these guys are going to put them anywhere near a premiership, or at the very least, take them forward to be in a position to play for one in 5 or 6 years? Two players well into their 30s in the two most important position on the field, and coach into his 70s? I might be discriminating against his age, but I don't think Bennett's got it in him to do the hard work of re-inventing processes at a club with the more spartan of resources in the NRL. The League has moved on from his heyday and he needs to accept that the game has passed him. Seriously, Benny and Blocker aren't in and around the everyday life of football dept. It's not turning up 2 or 3 nights a week and then game day anymore.

No, clubs need to be bold and hire new head coaches into the League. Robinson was a new NRL head coach and ended up winning a premiership. Maguire was a new NRL head coach and ended up winning a premiership. Paul Green was a new NRL head coach and ended up winning a premiership. Shane Flanagan has been around longer, but you get the drift.

The critical thing is to hire the right bloke as a coach, not a merely a bloke who may have been a decent player in his day, or won a premiership a decade ago

 

[gallagher]

I don't get how Tigers figures (backdoor, Blocker, etc) are getting excited about Bennett.

I know Tigers have been burned with coaches, but the club allowed players to run the joint. IMO, going back to Marshall and Farah isn't a step in the right direction. Now the word is they're considering Bennett. Does anyone with two brain cells think these guys are going to put them anywhere near a premiership, or at the very least, take them forward to be in a position to play for one in 5 or 6 years? Two players well into their 30s in the two most important position on the field, and coach into his 70s? I might be discriminating against his age, but I don't think Bennett's got it in him to do the hard work of re-inventing processes at a club with the more spartan of resources in the NRL. The League has moved on from his heyday and he needs to accept that the game has passed him. Seriously, Benny and Blocker aren't in and around the everyday life of football dept. It's not turning up 2 or 3 nights a week and then game day anymore.

No, clubs need to be bold and hire new head coaches into the League. Robinson was a new NRL head coach and ended up winning a premiership. Maguire was a new NRL head coach and ended up winning a premiership. Paul Green was a new NRL head coach and ended up winning a premiership. Shane Flanagan has been around longer, but you get the drift.

The critical thing is to hire the right bloke as a coach, not a merely a bloke who may have been a decent player in his day, or won a premiership a decade ago

The problem is that the tigers don't have anyone that could identify the next good coach coming along. Re-signing Farah and Marshall, as you pointed out, shows the lack of football intelligence in the place. The only time we had any success was when we had an experienced coach in Sheens. We need a coach with the smarts and experience who can take full control.

 

[Life's Good]

I think that's too simplistic. As always injuries must be taken into account.

But lets say that they have a filly fit squad come finals then at the very least they have to go one step further and make a Prelim.

They've become finals wk 2 specialists the past three years; without ever looking like a legitmate title threat.

Ideally they'd want to make a GF but again it's more complex than that. If they run into a white hot Roosters team in a Prelim and lose a nail biter then it'd be harsh to put that down as a failure when on paper they're not yet in the Roosters class (and whilstever they have 1.5m tied up in two way past their prime overrated props then they'll struggle to get there. Those shocking deals are on Gus btw, not Ivan).

They had a pile of injuries this year and were still contenders. You guys had injuries & won the thing.
Gus didn’t believe in Griffin & is now making moves to get Ivan because he publicly declared Griffin couldn’t get the job done. He’s not doing it because he feels he owes Cleary, he wants that premiership.

 

[franklin2323]

The lack of broken contracts on the outside does look bad. Player managers would know the full story and if they are fine with it there is no issues with getting players...

 

[Exsilium]

They had a pile of injuries this year and were still contenders. You guys had injuries & won the thing.
Gus didn’t believe in Griffin & is now making moves to get Ivan because he publicly declared Griffin couldn’t get the job done. He’s not doing it because he feels he owes Cleary, he wants that premiership.

Ivan and premiership are not a combination I see coming to fruition.

 

[franklin2323]

Ivan and premiership are not a combination I see coming to fruition.

I presume if he comes before 2021 and his nice guy tag is gone. Then his flaws will actually get mentioned

 

[super_coach]

These days a head coach is like a EPL manager. He is the face of the football operation. As for the day to day coaching that is mainly done by a bunch of assistants. Not saying do not coach, but I think most of there job is people managing and media work.

So a bloke like Bennett can do that stuff with his eyes closed, where a new young face might struggle. Bennett like any other coach will be as effective as the squad of players he can assemble and the team of assistants he can assemble

 

[Front-Rower]

Re-signing Farah and Marshall, as you pointed out, shows the lack of football intelligence in the place. The only time we had any success was when we had an experienced coach in Sheens.

Resigning Benji at the start of last year was probably ok, for one year only and considering he would have been behind Reynolds and Brooks, it was hardly worth worrying about. Fast forward to when he admits he was the one who rang Farah showed that old habits die hard (reckon he would have rung him if he was still at Brisbane?).

IMO Cleary was told by management that Farah was to come back and he was signed purely for marketing purposes. I doubt very much Cleary would want to sign an aging, slow hooker who has spent majority of the last 3 years playing ISP. Cleary probably saw the writing on the wall and started to look at his options. Do I blame him, no, do I think it is unethical, yes.

In regard to your second point, the only time we have had success is when we have had a decent number 7. Lui is/was no world beater but he he filled the role better than anyone has or had since Prince departed.

 

[unforgiven]

Resigning Benji at the start of last year was probably ok, for one year only and considering he would have been behind Reynolds and Brooks, it was hardly worth worrying about. Fast forward to when he admits he was the one who rang Farah showed that old habits die hard (reckon he would have rung him if he was still at Brisbane?).

IMO Cleary was told by management that Farah was to come back and he was signed purely for marketing purposes. I doubt very much Cleary would want to sign an aging, slow hooker who has spent majority of the last 3 years playing ISP. Cleary probably saw the writing on the wall and started to look at his options. Do I blame him, no, do I think it is unethical, yes.

In regard to your second point, the only time we have had success is when we have had a decent number 7. Lui is/was no world beater but he he filled the role better than anyone has or had since Prince departed.

There is a lot I disagree with in this post. At the time Farah came back the Tigers had Taylor playing hooker, Farah was a massive upgrade over Taylor and I am sure Cleary had no problem with the signing.

Luke Brooks is now a better half than Lui every was.

 

[Front-Rower]

There is a lot I disagree with in this post. At the time Farah came back the Tigers had Taylor playing hooker, Farah was a massive upgrade over Taylor and I am sure Cleary had no problem with the signing.

Luke Brooks is now a better half than Lui every was.

Hmmm there is a lot I disagree with in your post. But you’re r entitled to your opinion.

 

[unforgiven]

Hmmm there is a lot I disagree with in your post. But you’re r entitled to your opinion.

Farah wasn't an upgrade on Taylor?