The LJC\Stallion Thread

[Timmah]

It's valid Pommy . It will be on free to air and pay tv during the winter on Saturday afternoons. My source is tv coverage and commentary both on 7 mate(or one of those related channels ? ) and Fox tv.

I don't think you understand what "source" means.

If you make a claim which others deem doubtful, the onus is on you to provide evidence to support that claim.

That comes in the form of factual information - surely someone at Rugby NSW took some kind of record of crowds? "I saw it on TV" is not providing a source, it's anecdotal.

 

[Pommy]

It's valid Pommy . It will be on free to air and pay tv during the winter on Saturday afternoons. My source is tv coverage and commentary both on 7 mate(or one of those related channels ? ) and Fox tv.

If you’re a teacher you must have done some kind of degree, how do you not know what a source is?

 

[Stallion]

I don't think you understand what "source" means.

If you make a claim which others deem doubtful, the onus is on you to provide evidence to support that claim.

That comes in the form of factual information - surely someone at Rugby NSW took some kind of record of crowds? "I saw it on TV" is not providing a source, it's anecdotal.

Take my word for it. I'm not lying? Others may have stumbled across it as well? Hope they confirm my observation. Believe me I'm not into watching union or talking it up! Just channel surfing and noticed the big crowd on TV. And more than just one Saturday game as well .

 

[Stallion]

If you’re a teacher you must have done some kind of degree, how do you not know what a source is?

I have outlined my source. Two tv channels on different Saturdays and the union games were in northern Sydney. One being a game between Warringah & Manly at Rat park. The ground has 3 grassed hills and a grandstand . And anecdotal evidence is accepted for university assignments.

 

[Stallion]

If you’re a teacher you must have done some kind of degree, how do you not know what a source is?

Lol. I.know what a source is And I know what a disingenuous stance is as well. You lift your game instead of being a continual devils advocate and start to work out that RL is not getting a fair run of things in the big picture no matter how much you think it's going well or don't want to believe. Once we have awareness then hopefully progress follows. That's my take on it. Can understand people not being up to speed on this stuff but just don't shoot the messenger. I'm on a rugby league website in good faith and trust there are people that will genuinely care for this code given the information and issues that it faces. It's not some fanciful delusion it's reality. And a sad and exposing reality at that! Alot of people only want to see what their perceived view of the world is. Then information upsetting that perception comes by and ridicule and cynicism comes to.the fore. If it's not discussed or highlighted, it is then hidden and rugby league continues to be contained and constrained . If we truelly respect this more deserving football code, being open and proactive will help this code into the future.(I hope!)

 

[Pommy]

Lol. I.know what a source is And I know what a disingenuous stance is as well. You lift your game instead of being a continual devils advocate and start to work out that RL is not getting a fair run of things in the big picture no matter how much you think it's going well or don't want to believe. Once we have awareness then hopefully progress follows. That's my take on it. Can understand people not being up to speed on this stuff but just don't shoot the messenger. I'm on a rugby league website in good faith and trust there are people that will genuinely care for this code given the information and issues that it faces. It's not some fanciful delusion it's reality. And a sad and exposing reality at that! Alot of people only want to see what their perceived view of the world is. Then information upsetting that perception comes by and ridicule and cynicism comes to.the fore. If it's not discussed or highlighted, it is then hidden and rugby league continues to be contained and constrained . If we truelly respect this more deserving football code, being open and proactive will help this code into the future.(I hope!)

No f**king shit.

 

[Stallion]

No f**king shit.

Take it in and grow your mind Pommy! It may be good for you?

 

[Timmah]

If you're prepared to make statements, its far more accepted that you have actual evidence to back them up. I find it staggering there's nowhere you could possibly google or someone you could contact to get the good gear on what the crowd figures were. Crowd figures are available readily for every single NRL game for the last 20-30 odd years or more. Same applies to UK Super League.

How NSWRU haven't kept such figures that you could easily access to back your assertions... well that says something about how union is going in Australia, no?

 

[Whatwhere]

If you're prepared to make statements, its far more accepted that you have actual evidence to back them up. I find it staggering there's nowhere you could possibly google or someone you could contact to get the good gear on what the crowd figures were. Crowd figures are available readily for every single NRL game for the last 20-30 odd years or more. Same applies to UK Super League.

How NSWRU haven't kept such figures that you could easily access to back your assertions... well that says something about how union is going in Australia, no?

As much as I hate backing anything Stallion says up. He's not all that far off on the club Rugby figures. The 'Battle of the Beaches' derby between Manly and Warringah draws between 8-10k. But they are the exception to the rule. Most games would draw a couple of thousand tops. Games are broadcast on both FTA TV via 7Two and on Fox Sports but those are provided cost free to both with the company behind them making money on the advertising side.

 

[Stallion]

If you're prepared to make statements, its far more accepted that you have actual evidence to back them up. I find it staggering there's nowhere you could possibly google or someone you could contact to get the good gear on what the crowd figures were. Crowd figures are available readily for every single NRL game for the last 20-30 odd years or more. Same applies to UK Super League.

How NSWRU haven't kept such figures that you could easily access to back your assertions... well that says something about how union is going in Australia, no?

Union probably doesn't want genuine rugby league people to discover the developing trend. As prudent rugby league officials would be proactive enough to get a club like the Bears back in the top flight and in this region.However the union people are very savvy. And are happy gaining this momentum with rugby league unaware as to what's going on. So I suggest the crowd figures are not available for such a reason. They should be but are not. Meanwhile rugby league continues on without a genuine local derby rivalry in northern Sydney and Union gains a "behind the scenes following". Smart work from the union people but pretty dumb from league.

 

[Stallion]

As much as I hate backing anything Stallion says up. He's not all that far off on the club Rugby figures. The 'Battle of the Beaches' derby between Manly and Warringah draws between 8-10k. But they are the exception to the rule. Most games would draw a couple of thousand tops. Games are broadcast on both FTA TV via 7Two and on Fox Sports but those are provided cost free to both with the company behind them making money on the advertising side.

Thanks I think ! ? Would prefer you refer to it as "union" though.

 

[Pommy]

Union probably doesn't want genuine rugby league people to discover the developing trend. As prudent rugby league officials would be proactive enough to get a club like the Bears back in the top flight and in this region.However the union people are very savvy. And are happy gaining this momentum with rugby league unaware as to what's going on. So I suggest the crowd figures are not available for such a reason. They should be but are not. Meanwhile rugby league continues on without a genuine local derby rivalry in northern Sydney and Union gains a "behind the scenes following". Smart work from the union people but pretty dumb from league.

In the third tier of union, North Sydney has a local derby in rugby league’s second tier.

 

[Stallion]

In the third tier of union, North Sydney has a local derby in rugby league’s second tier.

Idiot. Totally different scenario. As stated before : Most fans don't accept 2nd grade status when their club is or has been top flight! The Bears fans are the same as most fans of a top flight club. In Australia it's different than in England. This is due to a number of previously explained reasons but obviously not taken in!
I would also suggest that rugby league's first tier is international, then interstate along with NRL. But predictably people like yourself ignore the international tier of rugby league.

 

[Pommy]

As much as I hate backing anything Stallion says up. He's not all that far off on the club Rugby figures. The 'Battle of the Beaches' derby between Manly and Warringah draws between 8-10k. But they are the exception to the rule. Most games would draw a couple of thousand tops. Games are broadcast on both FTA TV via 7Two and on Fox Sports but those are provided cost free to both with the company behind them making money on the advertising side.

It’s not so much that I think he’s a liar, he just uses outliers as the norm.

Idiot. Totally different scenario. As stated before : Most fans don't accept 2nd grade status when their club is or has been top flight! The Bears fans are the same as most fans of a top flight club. In Australia it's different than in England. This is due to a number of previously explained reasons but obviously not taken in!
I would also suggest that rugby league's first tier is international, then interstate along with NRL. But predictably people like yourself ignore the international tier of rugby league.

You haven’t explained anything, just because is about the limit of your explanation.
I don’t ignore international league at all, as I have told you I donate money to up and coming nations. If you’re going to come up with a convoluted tier system where does Origin sit?
Nobody would come up with that argument. The premier league is the top tier of English football, but I would cut off both my legs to see England win a FIFA World Cup.

 

[Timmah]

As much as I hate backing anything Stallion says up. He's not all that far off on the club Rugby figures. The 'Battle of the Beaches' derby between Manly and Warringah draws between 8-10k. But they are the exception to the rule. Most games would draw a couple of thousand tops. Games are broadcast on both FTA TV via 7Two and on Fox Sports but those are provided cost free to both with the company behind them making money on the advertising side.

Precisely my point though - they're outliers. I can see the GF this year got 15.5k and I have no doubt they'd crack 10k once or twice, but that's all. Most pictures I've come across on a quick google show desolate grounds with nobody around. Friends & family only kind of stuff - so no wonder there aren't any crowd figures lol.

Union probably doesn't want genuine rugby league people to discover the developing trend. As prudent rugby league officials would be proactive enough to get a club like the Bears back in the top flight and in this region.However the union people are very savvy. And are happy gaining this momentum with rugby league unaware as to what's going on. So I suggest the crowd figures are not available for such a reason. They should be but are not. Meanwhile rugby league continues on without a genuine local derby rivalry in northern Sydney and Union gains a "behind the scenes following". Smart work from the union people but pretty dumb from league.

You should be a comedy writer - this shit is f**king hilarious.

 

[Pommy]

Union probably doesn't want genuine rugby league people to discover the developing trend. As prudent rugby league officials would be proactive enough to get a club like the Bears back in the top flight and in this region.However the union people are very savvy. And are happy gaining this momentum with rugby league unaware as to what's going on. So I suggest the crowd figures are not available for such a reason. They should be but are not. Meanwhile rugby league continues on without a genuine local derby rivalry in northern Sydney and Union gains a "behind the scenes following". Smart work from the union people but pretty dumb from league.

People won’t go and follow a team they already support in the second tier but they will move to a totally new club and sport in the third tier?
And this is because of tyranny of distance?

 

[Whatwhere]

Precisely my point though - they're outliers. I can see the GF this year got 15.5k and I have no doubt they'd crack 10k once or twice, but that's all. Most pictures I've come across on a quick google show desolate grounds with nobody around. Friends & family only kind of stuff - so no wonder there aren't any crowd figures lol.

You should be a comedy writer - this shit is f**king hilarious.

As I said. Outside of the likes of Manly and Warringah derby those kind of crowds aren't the norm. Uni, Easts, Randwick, Southern Districts and maybe Eastwood/Norths draw in around 2k a game with the Easts/Randwick derby drawing between 3-4k comfortably enough but that's really it. West Harbour, Parra (now Western Sydney) Gordon are literally friends and family for the most part.

I mean for 4th Tier Rugby it's fairly good. The Brisbane competition draws 2-3k for most of their games as well at the same level and there's definitely renewed interest thanks to the disconnect between the amateur/semi-pro and professional ranks but it's hardly some kind of covert action on behalf of Rugby.

 

[Valheru]

After twenty years many loyal RL fans may have moved on or passed away. (Not to say if a top flight Bears were reincarnated that fans would come back though!) The lesser code of union has taken up a demand that rugby league is not catering for. It's as simple as that. You surely don't think union is an attractive enough code too instantly cater for fans that are used to action on a footy field?

You are talking about another topic that you know f**k all about.

People aren't attending shute shield instead of NRL. In fact in my experience most people attending shute shield are also NRL fans and the ones that don't like rugby league never have liked the sport

The reason for the (mild) renaissance of the shute shield in recent years is not an alternative to RL as a sport but because they have done a good job of creating a community event. Cheap entry at a local park, day time football with 4 games, BBQ, cheap drinks, boozing up in the clubhouse after the game etc. etc.

Having said the Shute Shield is a still a 2nd rate park rugby organisation and to be fair to them I don't think they ever expect not to be, they just want to maximise that potential which is a reasonable goal for a 3rd tier comp. That all goes back to the point being made to you that there is no reason why tier 2 Rugby league can't have similar success.

Union probably doesn't want genuine rugby league people to discover the developing trend. As prudent rugby league officials would be proactive enough to get a club like the Bears back in the top flight and in this region.However the union people are very savvy. And are happy gaining this momentum with rugby league unaware as to what's going on. So I suggest the crowd figures are not available for such a reason. They should be but are not. Meanwhile rugby league continues on without a genuine local derby rivalry in northern Sydney and Union gains a "behind the scenes following". Smart work from the union people but pretty dumb from league.

lol

The reason why rugby does not publicise crowds for Shute Shield is because they don't have accurate figures and the reason for that is because there is no practical way to provide them.

At southern districts games for example (of which I have been to many), there are 2 old boys selling tickets at the gate and there is no way to reliably count the attendance. They could of course count the til at the end of the day but that doesn't take in to account members (which they do have), other freebies given out to sponsors, mates of the players, associates of board members etc., children (who are free) and other concessions.

So no, the reason for not providing crowd figures is not because of some conspiracy to hide the success of the competition from rugby league officials as you suggest, rather it is because most grounds are incapable of providing figures with any accuracy.

 

[Stallion]

Precisely my point though - they're outliers. I can see the GF this year got 15.5k and I have no doubt they'd crack 10k once or twice, but that's all. Most pictures I've come across on a quick google show desolate grounds with nobody around. Friends & family only kind of stuff - so no wonder there aren't any crowd figures lol.

You should be a comedy writer - this shit is f**king hilarious.

My whole information was based about union gaining traction in northern Sydney! MANLY AND Warringah are in northern Sydney. You now concede that it's one or two games. Before you were stating this hasn't happened due to lack of officiak crowd figures. My word we have a Pontiac Pilot in our mids.Ridicule my information as much as you like.In the end when rugby league is of lititle relevance I'm this part of Sydney, I'm sure the shoulder shrug will come out. "Wonder how that happened!?" Then again I'd suggest it may not even concern some on this site whatsoever! All I can do is get it out there for your sublime ridicule!

 

[Stallion]

Precisely my point though - they're outliers. I can see the GF this year got 15.5k and I have no doubt they'd crack 10k once or twice, but that's all. Most pictures I've come across on a quick google show desolate grounds with nobody around. Friends & family only kind of stuff - so no wonder there aren't any crowd figures lol.

You should be a comedy writer - this shit is f**king hilarious.

Apathy suits your role on this site! Well done. Just what rugby league needs on a rugby league website. Be proud. Like I've stated shooting the messenger does not good for rugby league in the long run. No doubt such warnings will. be deflected in your own way like other valid discourse. Oh I forgot! It already is by being on this poorly named thread. Well done again! LIKE I have stated beforehand this thread should be named :Repression of rugby league ;issues and discussion..But no it is titled innapropriately anyway. Conveniently well hidden to the Google world. Great work!